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Kimberly Cherington

Deterrence Down Under

A Non-Profit and Business podcast

#53 in Non-Profit · 🇦🇺 #76 in Non-Profit · 🇰🇷
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About the show

Deterrence Down Under is a production of the NIDS Broadcasting Network and is focused on Australia and deterrence challenges in the Indo-Pacific region.

Newest episodes

Nuclear Policy: What Could Go Wrong with Dr. Stephen Herzog

42 min

Professor Stephen Herzog joins Carl and Christine to examine why well-intentioned nuclear policies sometimes backfire and what artificial intelligence could mean for the future of nuclear security. From the design of the CTBT and the difference between treaty signing and ratification to proliferation, disarmament, verification, and AI-enabled threats, the conversation explores how policymakers can manage nuclear risks in an increasingly complex technological environment. Drawing from Herzog’s open-access book Atomic Backfires: When Nuclear Policies Fail, the episode also asks a critical question: Are the worlds of AI governance and WMD governance prepared to confront these risks together? Dr. Herzog is Director of the Vermont Office of the Center for Nonproliferation Studies at Middlebury College and Editor-in-Chief of The Nonproliferation Review. His research focuses on nuclear arms control, nonproliferation, disarmament, and the growing intersection of AI and nuclear weapons. Atomic Backfires book free download: https://direct.mit.edu/books/oa-edited-volume/6076/Atomic-BackfiresWhen-Nuclear-Policies-Fail

Is America’s Nuclear Strategy Ready for Russia and China? A Conversation with Frank Miller

38 min

The U.S. nuclear strategy playbook was built for a different world. The Honorable Frank Miller argues that with Russia and China presenting simultaneous strategic challenges, U.S. policy and force posture must evolve with them. Host Christine Leah joins Miller to discuss extended deterrence in the Indo-Pacific, the relationship between conventional and nuclear capabilities, missile defense, SLCM-N, Dark Eagle, Golden Dome, AUKUS, and the importance of maintaining allied confidence. Miller also explains why he believes traditional ideas about “nuclear superiority” can obscure the real question: Does the United States have the capabilities, planning, and political credibility necessary to deter its adversaries and reassure its allies? Miller served 31 years in the U.S. government, including positions at the State Department, Department of Defense, and White House. He is a principal at the Scowcroft Group and co-author of America’s Strategic Posture. www.thinkdeterrence.com

Japan Opens the Nuclear Debate that Australia Avoids

35 min

Japan just broke a major taboo, and Australia may be next. A serving defense minister is publicly questioning whether nuclear weapons, nuclear-powered submarines, and extended deterrence should still be off limits—and that shift opens up one of the most important security debates in the Indo-Pacific. Carl Rhodes and Christine Leah unpack why this matters far beyond Tokyo. If you care about Australia’s AUKUS path, the credibility of the US nuclear umbrella, or what happens when old taboos collide with a worsening security environment, this conversation goes straight to the heart of it. You’ll discover: Why Japan’s willingness to openly discuss nuclear options is a big dealHow Australia’s AUKUS decision skipped the public debate Japan is now forcingWhat extended deterrence means, and why some allies feel safer with more visible nuclear supportThe tension between non-proliferation ideals and geopolitical realityWhy conventional and nuclear deterrence can no longer be separatedHow precision strike, drones, and long-range missiles are changing the meaning of strategic depthwww.thinkdeterrence.com

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All episodes

Nuclear Policy: What Could Go Wrong with Dr. Stephen Herzog

42 min

Professor Stephen Herzog joins Carl and Christine to examine why well-intentioned nuclear policies sometimes backfire and what artificial intelligence could mean for the future of nuclear security. From the design of the CTBT and the difference between treaty signing and ratification to proliferation, disarmament, verification, and AI-enabled threats, the conversation explores how policymakers can manage nuclear risks in an increasingly complex technological environment. Drawing from Herzog’s open-access book Atomic Backfires: When Nuclear Policies Fail, the episode also asks a critical question: Are the worlds of AI governance and WMD governance prepared to confront these risks together? Dr. Herzog is Director of the Vermont Office of the Center for Nonproliferation Studies at Middlebury College and Editor-in-Chief of The Nonproliferation Review. His research focuses on nuclear arms control, nonproliferation, disarmament, and the growing intersection of AI and nuclear weapons. Atomic Backfires book free download: https://direct.mit.edu/books/oa-edited-volume/6076/Atomic-BackfiresWhen-Nuclear-Policies-Fail

Is America’s Nuclear Strategy Ready for Russia and China? A Conversation with Frank Miller

38 min

The U.S. nuclear strategy playbook was built for a different world. The Honorable Frank Miller argues that with Russia and China presenting simultaneous strategic challenges, U.S. policy and force posture must evolve with them. Host Christine Leah joins Miller to discuss extended deterrence in the Indo-Pacific, the relationship between conventional and nuclear capabilities, missile defense, SLCM-N, Dark Eagle, Golden Dome, AUKUS, and the importance of maintaining allied confidence. Miller also explains why he believes traditional ideas about “nuclear superiority” can obscure the real question: Does the United States have the capabilities, planning, and political credibility necessary to deter its adversaries and reassure its allies? Miller served 31 years in the U.S. government, including positions at the State Department, Department of Defense, and White House. He is a principal at the Scowcroft Group and co-author of America’s Strategic Posture. www.thinkdeterrence.com

Japan Opens the Nuclear Debate that Australia Avoids

35 min

Japan just broke a major taboo, and Australia may be next. A serving defense minister is publicly questioning whether nuclear weapons, nuclear-powered submarines, and extended deterrence should still be off limits—and that shift opens up one of the most important security debates in the Indo-Pacific. Carl Rhodes and Christine Leah unpack why this matters far beyond Tokyo. If you care about Australia’s AUKUS path, the credibility of the US nuclear umbrella, or what happens when old taboos collide with a worsening security environment, this conversation goes straight to the heart of it. You’ll discover: Why Japan’s willingness to openly discuss nuclear options is a big dealHow Australia’s AUKUS decision skipped the public debate Japan is now forcingWhat extended deterrence means, and why some allies feel safer with more visible nuclear supportThe tension between non-proliferation ideals and geopolitical realityWhy conventional and nuclear deterrence can no longer be separatedHow precision strike, drones, and long-range missiles are changing the meaning of strategic depthwww.thinkdeterrence.com

110 Facilities Later, Is Australia Already Part of US War Plans?

34 min

A new map of the U.S. military footprint in Australia has reignited a long-running debate over sovereignty, deterrence, and entrapment. With 110 facilities tied to U.S. access, contractor activity, intelligence work, bomber operations, submarine support, logistics, and stockpiled war materiel, the stakes are no longer abstract. Christine and Carl unpack why the relationship is growing more integrated. You'll discover how concepts like full knowledge and concurrence shape Australia’s control over joint facilities, why phrases like “no foreign bases” can be legally true while still masking deep operational access, and how the 2014 Force Posture Agreement actually works in practice. The conversation also traces the issue back to Pine Gap, Northwest Cape, and the Cold War, showing this is not a new controversy - just one that has become more urgent. Christine brings a historical lens on Australian alliance management and extended deterrence, including the long debate over what Australia should expect from the United States in a crisis. Carl pushes on the practical side - what happens when facilities, submarines, aircraft, and munitions are already enmeshed, and who decides what gets used, when, and for whom? We break down the real tension between deterrence and entrapment, why Australia may want the protection of U.S. power without losing agency, and how the rise of China changes the calculations. The discussion also gets into the role of regional conflict, whether the Pacific has truly been “pivoted” to by the U.S., and why a war involving major powers would be a whole-of-nation event, not just a military one. www.thinkdeterrence.com

Ukraine’s Resilience in War: Lessons for the Future with Dr. Viktoriya Fedorchak

35 min

What enables a nation to endure years of war and continue fighting effectively? In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Dr. Viktoriya Fedorchak explores the remarkable resilience of Ukraine throughout the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war. Drawing on her research, she examines the interconnected concepts of preparedness, mobilization, and resilience, highlighting how military and societal factors have enabled Ukraine to adapt and persevere under extraordinary pressure. The conversation explores key lessons from Ukraine’s long-term conflict, including the importance of national preparedness, the ability to recover and adapt in wartime, and the role of public support in sustaining military effectiveness. Dr. Fedorchak also discusses how these lessons may apply to other nations, particularly Australia, as they confront evolving security challenges. The episode concludes with an examination of modern warfare’s rapidly changing character, including the growing impact of drones and the continued importance of air power. Dr. Fedorchak offers insights into how military organizations can adapt their doctrines and force structures to address emerging threats while maintaining operational effectiveness. Dr. Viktoriya Fedorchak is a Senior lecturer and Docent\Associate Professor in War Studies, Air Operations Division, at the Swedish Defence University. Previously, she taught courses in Air Power, Security and Strategic Studies, International Relations in Norway, Ireland, and the UK. She has widely published on air power and security studies, multi-domain aspects of the Russia-Ukraine war. Her books are the monograph ‘British Air Power: The Doctrinal Path to Jointery’ (Bloomsbury Academic, 2018), and the textbook ‘Understanding Contemporary Air power’ (Routledge, 2020). Her most recent monograph, ‘The Russia-Ukraine War: towards Resilient fighting Power’ (Routledge), was published in Spring 2024 and is available online in open access. Her current research interests include air po...

Alliances, Burden Sharing, and Security in the Indo-Pacific

33 min

How should allies share the burden of defense in an increasingly contested security environment? In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Christine and Carl unpack the strategic implications of a recent speech by U.S. Under Secretary of Defense Elbridge Colby and explore what it means for the future of the U.S.-Australia alliance. The discussion examines alliance responsibilities, deterrence strategies, and the challenges of maintaining regional stability in the Indo-Pacific. From Australia's growing military capabilities and strategic partnerships to debates over burden sharing, missile defense, and military readiness, the conversation highlights how allies can strengthen deterrence while navigating complex geopolitical realities. Christine and Carl also compare NATO's evolution with security arrangements in the Asia-Pacific, discussing how different threat environments shape alliance structures, defense investments, and strategic decision-making. Along the way, they explore the concepts of strategic depth, forward basing, escalation dynamics, and the economic benefits that underpin enduring security partnerships. Tune in for an insightful discussion on how allies can strengthen deterrence, adapt to evolving threats, and maintain stability in one of the world's most strategically important regions. https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

SLCM-N, Missile Defense, and the Future of Indo-Pacific Deterrence

35 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Carl Rhodes and Christine Leah examine one of the most debated developments in modern nuclear strategy: the United States' Sea-Launched Cruise Missile-Nuclear (SLCM-N) program. As geopolitical competition intensifies in the Indo-Pacific, policymakers and defense planners are reassessing how nuclear and conventional capabilities contribute to deterrence, assurance, and regional stability. Carl and Christine break down what SLCM-N is, why the United States is pursuing the capability, and how it fits into the broader framework of extended nuclear deterrence. They explore the historical role of sea-launched nuclear weapons, the legacy of the nuclear Tomahawk missile, and the strategic arguments both for and against deploying nuclear-armed cruise missiles aboard naval platforms. The discussion also examines Australia's evolving missile defense capabilities, including recent testing at Woomera, and considers what these developments mean for allies and partners throughout the region. Along the way, they address the perspectives of Japan and South Korea, command and control challenges, signaling and escalation risks, and Australia's longstanding nuclear policy commitments. From tactical nuclear weapons and maritime deterrence to alliance assurance and Indo-Pacific security, this episode provides a timely and accessible look at the complex strategic questions shaping the future of nuclear deterrence. Resources: Hiroshi Nakatani thesis on Japan https://centaur.reading.ac.uk/86467/2/23871021_Nakatani_thesis.pdf Desmond Ball http://www.jstor.org/stable/2538940?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents Linton Brooks http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/ins/summary/v013/13.3.brooks.html David Lange https://www.amazon.com.au/Nuclear-Free-New-Zealand-Way/dp/0140145192 www.thinkdeterrence.com

China's Nuclear Missile Test: Signaling or Routine?

33 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Carl and Christine examine China's recent submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) test and what it reveals about Beijing's evolving approach to nuclear deterrence in the Asia-Pacific. Was the launch a routine military activity, a strategic signal, or both? Carl and Christine explore the role of transparency, nuclear signaling, and strategic communication among major powers, while discussing the implications for Australia, the United States, and regional allies. They also unpack the diplomatic dynamics unfolding across the Pacific, the challenges posed by emerging missile technologies, and the growing importance of credible deterrence in an increasingly complex security environment. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and episode overview 01:28 China tests submarine-launched missile in the Pacific 02:22 Timing of the test and regional signaling 04:22 Interpretation of routine vs. provocative testing 08:12 Transparency and nuclear signaling 11:27 Missile testing and international norms 14:38 Cruise missiles and nuclear deterrence 16:15 Warning time and strategic preparedness 20:22 Australia’s response and regional security 22:48 Nuclear free zones and regional treaties 24:55 Diplomatic strategies in the Pacific 27:00 The evolving strategic landscape in Asia-Pacific 30:12 Future challenges and the role of transparency https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Resilient Australia: Supply Chains, Sovereignty, and Security with Marc Ablong

35 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, defense expert Marc Ablong joins the conversation to examine the challenges facing Australia's defense establishment and the reforms needed to strengthen deterrence, resilience, and national preparedness. From acquisition delays and risk-averse processes to supply chain vulnerabilities and sovereign capability, Ablong offers a candid assessment of what must change to deliver the capabilities Australia needs. The discussion explores the government's efforts to reform defense delivery, the realities of achieving greater self-reliance, and why a whole-of-nation approach is essential to addressing modern security challenges. Ablong argues that organizational restructuring alone is not enough—success depends on faster decision-making, resilient supply chains, and stronger partnerships across government, industry, and society. Marc Ablong is Managing Partner of Geostrategic Risk Partners. Prior to founding Geostrategic Risk Partners, Marc had a 31-year career in the Australian Public Service, that culminated as Deputy Secretary of the Australian Department of Home Affairs. Before that, Marc was a senior executive with 25 years within the Department of Defence. Marc led the development of the 2016 Defence White Paper, Integrated Investment Program and Defence Industry Policy Statement. Substack: mablong.substack.com

Strategic Reality Check: Australia, AUKUS, and Modern Deterrence with Stephen Kuper

38 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, defense analyst Steven Kuper joins the conversation to examine Australia’s evolving strategic posture in an increasingly contested Indo-Pacific. The discussion centers on the implications of AUKUS—the trilateral security partnership reshaping defense cooperation, advanced capabilities, and undersea power in the region—and what it means for Australia’s long-term security and strategic independence. Cooper explores the tension between Australia’s historic reliance on allies and the growing need for greater self-reliance, highlighting how resilience—across defense, industry, and the economy—has become a core component of national security. From submarine capabilities to supply chain strength, the conversation underscores the interconnected nature of modern deterrence. The episode also unpacks strategic stability in a complex environment, where technological change, regional competition, and military modernization are reshaping how nations prepare for and prevent conflict. As Cooper notes, deterrence is not just about capability—it’s about adaptability, mobilization, and making critical choices today that shape tomorrow’s security landscape. With insights on mobilization challenges, defense industry capacity, and geopolitical risk, this episode offers a clear-eyed look at the realities facing Australia—and why building a resilient, integrated strategy is essential for navigating the future of deterrence. Listen now to explore how Australia is positioning itself for the next era of strategic competition. www.thinkdeterrence.com Follow us on YouTube and Linkedin

Deterrence Down Under: Challenges to Arms Control and Strategic Stability

42 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, defense analyst Lowell Schwartz joins Carl and Christine to examine the evolving landscape of nuclear diplomacy among the United States, Russia, and China. As great power competition intensifies without consistent dialogue, Schwartz explores the growing challenges surrounding arms control, transparency, and strategic stability in an increasingly complex multipolar environment. https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our National Security Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Extended Deterrence and Nuclear Sharing in the Indo‑Pacific

34 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, hosts Christine and Carl take a deep dive into extended nuclear deterrence, nuclear sharing, and Australia’s evolving defense strategy in an increasingly contested Asia‑Pacific region. The discussion examines whether nuclear sharing—long debated in Europe—could play a role in Australia’s security posture, and what the strategic, political, and regional consequences might be. From alliance reliability and the credibility of U.S. extended deterrence to the risks and benefits of hosting nuclear weapons on Australian soil, this episode tackles some of the most complex questions facing policymakers today. They unpack the implications of Australia’s 2026 National Defence Strategy, including the push toward greater self‑reliance, the role of AUKUS, and how nuclear capabilities factor into regional stability and deterrence dynamics involving China. https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Decoding China’s Influence in the Indo‑Pacific: Strategies and Perspectives

28 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, defense analyst Derek Grossman joins the discussion with Carl to unpack how countries across the Indo‑Pacific view—and respond to—China’s growing influence. As Grossman notes, the Indo‑Pacific is far from monolithic, with regional actors pursuing distinct strategies shaped by history, geography, and national interest. The conversation examines Australia’s evolving defense posture, the implications of AUKUS, and the role of U.S. alliances in shaping regional security. It also explores China’s expanding diplomatic footprint, including the Belt and Road Initiative, alongside concerns over coercion, influence, and strategic signaling. From ASEAN’s careful balancing to Vietnam’s nuanced approach, this episode highlights why calibrated engagement and credible deterrence remain essential in managing great‑power competition. This discussion offers valuable insight into the complexity of Indo‑Pacific security dynamics—and why understanding regional perspectives is critical to shaping effective strategy. https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Deterring China: Military Modernization, A2AD, and the Indo‑Pacific Balance

34 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Christine and Carl examine the accelerating pace of China’s military modernization and what it means for Australia, regional allies, and stability in the Indo‑Pacific. The discussion explores Beijing’s strategic objectives—particularly its anti‑access/area denial (A2AD) approach—and how these capabilities shape deterrence dynamics surrounding Taiwan and U.S. and allied forces operating in the region. The conversation also highlights Australia’s evolving defense posture, including industrial cooperation with partners such as Germany, the growing importance of alliances, and the challenges posed by operating exquisite but finite military systems across vast distances. Drawing lessons from recent conflicts, the panel assesses how multi‑domain precision warfare, forward basing vulnerabilities, and alliance cohesion factor into deterring conflict in an increasingly contested strategic environment. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

China’s Nuclear Rise and the Indo‑Pacific Security Reckoning

33 min

China’s rapid nuclear expansion is reshaping global deterrence—and it’s happening faster than many realize. In this episode, Christine and Carl break down China’s evolving nuclear strategy, from new missile systems and submarine-launched capabilities to alarming tests near Lop Nur. They explore what a growing arsenal—potentially reaching the thousands by the 2030s—means for strategic stability, first‑strike dynamics, and regional security in Australia and the Indo‑Pacific. Essential listening for anyone concerned about the future of nuclear deterrence and global security. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

China’s Vision for the Future Global Order with Dr. Fei-Ling Wang

39 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Carl speaks with Dr. Fei‑Ling Wang about China’s worldview, the Chinese Communist Party’s vision for a new global order, and the strategic implications of China’s military and technological rise. The conversation explores why Taiwan is central to CCP legitimacy, how China seeks influence through both power and institutions, and why long‑term coordination among Western allies is essential to counter Beijing’s ambitions. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Inside China’s Espionage Enterprise: Risks, Reach, and Responses with Nick Eftimiades

34 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Carl and Christina are joined by renowned counterintelligence expert Nick Eftimiades for a deep dive into the evolving landscape of Chinese espionage. Drawing on decades of research and firsthand experience, the conversation unpacks how China’s intelligence system operates as a whole‑of‑society enterprise—one that incentivizes espionage behavior across state, economic, and social domains. The discussion explores the organizational structure of Chinese intelligence, the expanding use of technology and social media, and the growing threat of economic and political interference. With a focus on Australia and other middle powers, the episode examines how foreign interference laws are being tested by these evolving tactics and why education, international cooperation, and economic diversification are critical countermeasures. This timely conversation underscores the urgent need for collaboration among like‑minded nations to build a credible deterrence framework capable of responding to China’s covert influence operations and safeguarding national security. Nicholas Eftimiades retired in 2017 after a 34‑year career with the U.S. Department of Defense, serving with the CIA, as a Special Agent in the State Department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security, and as a Senior Intelligence Officer at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA). His senior DIA roles included Chief of Counterterrorism Operations and leadership of the Transnational Issues, Futures, and Space Divisions. He is a recipient of the National Intelligence Council Achievement Award and the DIA Director’s Intelligence Award. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/compan...

Security Shifts: What the U.S. Strategy Means for Australia

32 min

Christine and Carl unpack the newest U.S. National Security Strategy and examine what it means for both the United States and Australia. They explore recent trends in defense spending by the U.S. and its allies, analyze how alliance structures shape security in the Indo‑Pacific, and note the absence of AUKUS in the strategy. The discussion concludes with a candid look at preparedness, public perception of defense priorities, and why sustained investment and ongoing dialogue are essential for long-term security in the Indo‑Pacific region. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Australia’s Fight Against Violent Extremism with Lachlan Colquhoun

37 min

In this compelling episode of Deterrence Down Under, host Carl Rhodes sits down with Lachlan Colquhoun—one of Australia’s leading voices in counterterrorism and countering violent extremism (CVE). They unpack how Australia confronts today’s complex security landscape through a coordinated, whole‑of‑government approach. Colquhoun offers a candid look at the evolving nature of violent extremism, the challenges of defining emerging threats, and what recent incidents—such as the Bondi Beach attack—reveal about shifts in motivation and behavior. He also explores how online technologies accelerate radicalization and why community engagement remains essential to prevention. Clear-eyed, timely, and deeply informative, this episode sheds light on the strategies and partnerships that form the backbone of Australia’s national resilience. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Resilience and Reality: Australia's Strategic Challenges

36 min

In this compelling episode of "Deterrence Down Under," hosts Carl and Christine are joined by Air Vice Marshal John Blackburn to explore Australia's resilience in the face of strategic challenges. From the intricacies of national security to the vulnerabilities in infrastructure and supply chains, Blackburn shares insights from his extensive experience in defense and strategic planning. The discussion delves into the need for a shared national narrative, the impact of political systems on resilience, and practical steps towards a more secure future. Tune in to understand why resilience is not just a buzzword but a critical necessity for Australia's survival. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Civil Defense and Deterrence: Lessons from the Cold War for Today

35 min

In this conversation, Carl and Christine welcome Edward Geist, of RAND Corporation, to explore the concept of civil defense during the Cold War, its evolution, and its implications for modern deterrence strategies. They discuss the goals of civil defense in the US and Soviet Union, differences in their approaches, and lessons that can be applied to contemporary defense planning. The conversation highlights the complexities of preparing for nuclear conflict and the challenges of balancing civil defense with other military priorities. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Crisis Preparedness: Navigating the Worst Strategic Environment

35 min

This episode explores Australia’s most challenging strategic environment since World War II, drawing lessons from history to understand today’s security landscape. Carl and Christine highlight the gap in official crisis preparedness guidance and examine how personal strategies often diverge from government recommendations. With a sense of urgency, they discuss resourcefulness, critical thinking, and the importance of being ready for unexpected events. Listeners will gain insights into why preparedness matters, how historical parallels shape current decisions, and why individual judgment plays a key role in times of uncertainty. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Balancing Defence Spending to address Australia’s Strategic Environment

33 min

In this episode of "Deterrence Down Under," hosts Carl and Christine delve into the complexities of defense spending, particularly focusing on the challenges faced by Australia. They discuss the balance between immediate, near-term, and long-term defense investments, highlighting the strategic decisions involved in allocating resources for current capabilities versus future advancements. The conversation touches on Australia's commitment to the AUKUS pact, the impact of budget constraints on defense readiness, and the importance of missile defense in maintaining national security. They also explore the broader implications of deterrence strategies and the role of integrated defense systems in ensuring stability.

The Evolution of Missile Defense Technologies with Frank Rose

45 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Christine and Carl engage with Frank Rose, a prominent figure in geopolitics and national security. The conversation delves into the complexities of missile defense, its historical context, and the evolving challenges posed by modern warfare, including the rise of drone technology. Frank emphasizes the importance of adapting missile defense strategies and technologies to meet future threats, particularly in the context of U.S. alliances and strategic competition with nations like China. The discussion also touches on the future of arms control and the necessity of integrating new technologies into defense strategies. Frank Rose is President of Chevalier Strategic Advisors, a firm specializing in geopolitics and national security. He previously served as Principal Deputy Administrator of the US National Nuclear Security Administration, Assistant Secretary of State, a policy advisor in the Department of Defense, and as a professional staff member on the House Armed Services Committee. He has 30 years of experience working on missile defense issues at the Pentagon, the House Armed Services Committee, and the State Department. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Australian Air Power and Deterrence with Chris McInnes

28 min

Carl and Christine explore how Australia can strengthen deterrence through air power—its challenges, strategic options, and evolving force structure. They’re joined by Chris McInnes, Executive Director of the Air Power Institute, to discuss the unique role of air power in securing Australia’s vast maritime environment and examine how emerging technologies like drones and long-range strike platforms might fit into the strategy. Chris McInnes is Executive Director at the Air Power Institute. He is an air power and national security expert with 25 years of experience in the military, government, and industry and is also a frequent commentator and speaker at defence seminars here in Australia. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Public Debate and Australia's Strategic Alliances

29 min

In this episode, Carl and Christine examine the role of public debate in Australia’s defense and national security. They discuss alliances—especially Australia’s link to the US—recent Indo-Pacific developments, and the need to explain strategies like AUKUS to the public using Simon Sinek’s Start with Why approach. The episode highlights the importance of open discussion and a whole-of-nation approach in shaping policy. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts NIDS Podcast Network - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

History and Australia’s Strategic Culture

27 min

Carl and Christine discuss how Australia’s history influences its worldview, its alliances, and its approach to national security strategy. Over the past 80 years, Australia’s contributions to the U.S. alliance have weighed heavily on strategic thought. A new approach, focused on the maritime domain, is needed to effectively shape, deter, and respond to challenges in the Indo-Pacific region and maximise new capabilities from AUKUS. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts https://thinkdeterrence.com/outreach/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Golden Dome Rising: Australia’s Role in a New Missile Defense Era

33 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Carl, Christine, and Natalie are joined by Bob Peters to discuss the implications of the recent NATO summit for Australia, the concept of Golden Dome as a new missile defense strategy, and the evolving threats from global adversaries like China and Russia. The conversation also explores the role of AUKUS in enhancing missile defense capabilities, the importance of technological innovations, and the historical context of missile defense in relation to strategic stability. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts https://thinkdeterrence.com/outreach/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Australia and Extended Nuclear Deterrence

33 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, the Carl, Christine, and Natalie discuss the complexities of extended nuclear deterrence in Australia, tracing its historical roots and examining the current strategic environment. They explore the evolution of Australia's nuclear policy, the changing threat landscape from 2012 to today, and the public perception of nuclear deterrence. The conversation also delves into the differences between nuclear strategy in the Pacific and Europe, and the future of deterrence, weighing the merits of nuclear weapons against missile defense systems. Australia and the Bomb: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1057/9781137477392 Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts https://thinkdeterrence.com/outreach/ Like and follow us – The NIDS View: https://media.rss.com/nuclearview/feed.xml LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Irregular Warfare: An Indian Perspective

22 min

In this conversation, Natalie and Siddhant Hira explore the role of irregular warfare within a broader deterrence strategy, particularly from an Indian perspective. They discuss the challenges of defining irregular warfare, the importance of national security strategies, and how these concepts relate to deterrence in the context of India-China relations. The dialogue also touches on the need for hybrid models of deterrence and the implications of nuclear strategy in modern warfare. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts https://thinkdeterrence.com/outreach/ Like and follow us – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

The Defence Budget, is it enough?

18 min

In this solo podcast, Carl has thoughts on the recently released ASPI Cost of Defence report and the discussions in Canberra about its findings. He also shares some insights into who’s advocating for increased defence spending and what new capabilities Australia should be investing in. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts https://thinkdeterrence.com/outreach/ Like and follow us – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Nuclear Proliferation: A New Era?

24 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, Natalie discusses the complexities of nuclear proliferation with Christine and Dr. Peter Layton. The conversation explores whether the US should abandon the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in light of recent global changes, the historical context of nuclear stances, and the implications of nuclear sharing among allies and delves into the normalization of nuclear threats and the need for trust in international alliances. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Listen to our Podcasts https://thinkdeterrence.com/outreach/ Like and follow us – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Navigating New Challenges: Australia and the Indo-Pacific

28 min

In this episode, Carl and Natalie discuss Russia's military activities in the Indo-Pacific, Australia's national security strategies, and the contrasting approaches to deterrence between the Biden and Trump administrations. They explore the implications for Australia and the role of whole-of-government coordination when working with partners and allies to enact deterrence in the region. Note - Indonesia signed up to the TPNW with the Solomon Islands as of Sep. 2024. This was after Russia flew two nuclear-capable bombers on a patrol mission out of the Manuhua Air Force Base, Indonesia, on what appeared to be an intelligence gathering exercise in 2017. But, prior to news that Russia was seeking to base Russian nuclear-capable bombers in February 2024. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Like and follow us – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Analysis of Chinese warships deployed to Australia’s region

16 min

In today’s bonus episode, Carl goes solo to discusses the deployment of Chinese warships to Australia, their live fire exercise and what it means about deterrence and messaging for China and Australia. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Like and follow us – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com/ Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Growing nuclear deterrence leaders with Dr. Melvin G. Deaile 

36 min

This episode discusses the mission and importance of the School of Advanced Nuclear Deterrence Studies (SANDS) with director Dr. Deaile. We also explore ways to ensure extended deterrence in the Indo-Pacific and Europe given the growing capabilities of our adversaries. Get Involved with more NIDS Services: https://thinkdeterrence.com/ Deterrence Education at NIDS https://thinkdeterrence.com/deterrence-education/ Like and follow us – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGa4dcPqONWzjmbuZMOBHQ Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review: https://globalsecurityreview.com/ X.com: https://x.com/security_wonk Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

Wargaming: A Strategic Tool for Defence with Darren Huxley and John McGarry

34 min

This conversation delves into the significance of wargaming in enhancing defence strategies in Australia. The hosts and guests discuss the definitions, types, and structures of wargames, their target audiences, and the emotional engagement they foster in decision-making. They also compare Australia's wargaming practices with those of other countries, emphasizing the role of think tanks and the need for more resources and commitment to wargaming in defence planning. Brought to you by the National Institute for Deterrence Studies (NIDS) https://thinkdeterrence.com/ https://globalsecurityreview.com/ Get Involved with more of NIDS Programs https://thinkdeterrence.com/outreach/ Deterrence Education at NIDS Education - Education - National Institute for Deterrence Studies Social Media LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkdeterrence X.com: https://x.com/thinkdeterrence YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thinkdeterrence Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/NIDSthinkdeterrence Global Security Review LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalsecurityreview X.com: https://x.com/security_wonk Our Free Events: https://thinkdeterrence.com/events/

The Complexities of Ukraine's Nuclear Legacy

38 min

In this episode, Christine and Natalie engage with Dr. Mariana Budjeryn, a nuclear historian, to discuss her book 'Inheriting the Bomb' and the complexities surrounding Ukraine's nuclear disarmament. They explore the historical context of Ukraine's nuclear arsenal, the narratives surrounding its disarmament, and the implications of security assurances from major powers. Mariana shares her personal reflections on the ongoing war in Ukraine, the challenges faced by nuclear facilities under occupation, and the lessons learned for international security and cooperation.

Nuclear Strategy: Pakistan's Perspective with Anum A Khan

42 min

In this episode of Deterrence Down Under, the hosts engage with Anum A Khan, an expert on Pakistan's nuclear strategy. The conversation explores Pakistan's historical context in nuclear deterrence, its strategic responses to India, and the complexities of its geopolitical relationships, particularly with China and India. The discussion also delves into the effectiveness of nuclear weapons in maintaining peace, the importance of communication and confidence-building measures, and the need for dialogue in resolving conflicts.

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