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Liron Shapira

Doom Debates!

A Technology and Business podcast

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About the show

It's time to talk about the end of the world. With your host, Liron Shapira. lironshapira.substack.com

Newest episodes

There’s ZERO Chance of AI Doom By 2050 — Debate with Prakash Narayanan, Host of AI in the AM

1 hr 59 min

Prakash Narayanan is the man behind @8teAPi, an X account with nearly 60,000 followers that reacts to AI news from a techno-optimist perspective. He’s also the co-host of AI in the AM with friend-of-the-show Nathan Labenz. He spent almost 20 years in investment banking and private equity, used to post anonymously, and had e/acc in his profile before deciding the movement wasn’t for him. Now he’s stepping into the spotlight to defend the pro-AI position, which is more than I can say for most of the pro-AI voices on Twitter who like to snipe at me. We actually agree on a lot about how the technology is advancing. Prakash expects recursive self-improvement within a year and says AI may already be smarter than any individual human. He even gives a 5% chance that every human body gets discarded for a silicon substrate by 2050. And yet his P(Doom) by 2050 is 0%. Not 1%. Not 1 in 100,000. “Literally zero.” His reasoning is that AI is a multiplayer game. A market where somebody has to pay for every data center will keep any one AI from running away with the future. He even calls the doomer scenario a “perpetual motion machine.” We debate whether humans have any power to lose in the first place, the feasibility of a nanomachine takeover, and why someone with zero fear of doom doesn’t just floor the accelerator. This was a fun and occasionally high intensity debate. At one point, Prakash asked if I was “crazy” for doubting that most of humanity puts P(Doom) at zero. But my view is that his forecast falls outside the epistemological “sane zone.” Take a look and see who you agree with! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmOYwV5k0SA Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:24 — Introducing Prakash Narayanan 00:02:19 — How @8teAPi Went Viral 00:05:12 — Does Prakash Still Identify as e/acc? 00:07:05 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:10:02 — Prakash Defends 0%: Most of Humanity Isn’t Worried 00:15:17 — Prakash’s Core Argument: AI Is a Multiplayer Game 00:20:36 — Bayesian Test:...

Can Republicans STOP AI Doom? — Brendan & Randan Steinhauser

1 hr 23 min

Brendan and Randan Steinhauser are a husband and wife team who know how to make things happen in conservative politics. Brendan helped build the Tea Party movement and ran John Cornyn’s Senate campaign. Randan has been involved in advocacy and political campaigns in more than 30 states, including working under former Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos. Now they’re bringing Republicans, parents, and faith leaders into the fight against AI catastrophe. They know how to build political momentum, but my question is whether that will lead to action quickly enough. I'm skeptical of incremental legislation efforts and data center protests, but they argue it's necessary coalition-building that leads to superintelligence regulation. This isn't your typical state-of-the-political-map podcast. We also get into: Their personal AGI awakenings How people of faith make sense of claims of Godlike AI and AI doom My own transition to joining the Republican Party Transhumanism, souls, and mind uploading Parenting in the age of AI It’s a candid conversation with a couple who are making the fight for our future feel a little more winnable. Enjoy! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm9tqS1Ibw Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:07 — Introducing Brendan & Randan Steinhauser 00:02:22 — Why I Came Out as Republican 00:04:28 — The Alliance for Secure AI 00:06:30 — Losing Control of Superintelligence 00:07:52 — Brendan, What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:08:26 — Randan, What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:10:47 — Finding the AI Safety Movement 00:15:04 — Trump, Republicans, and Big Tech Money 00:19:22 — Bringing Faith Leaders Into AI Safety 00:23:23 — God’s Plan and Human Extinction 00:29:43 — Priorities for Congress 00:31:42 — The Morality of AI Companies 00:34:03 — PauseAI and Employee Whistleblowers 00:43:34 — Effective Altruism and a Broader Coalition 00:48:12 — Transhumanism, Souls, and Mind Uploading 00:57:40 — Building a Machine God 01:03:20 — Raising Children Under AI Risk 01:07:35 — Dat...

Is an AI Bubble Bursting? With Robert Wright’s Nonzero Podcast

1 hr 20 min

Bestselling author Robert Wright and I discuss this week’s stock market jitters, Google’s new interactive world model, and why I sometimes spend $1,000 in a day on AI agents. Plus: The Binance hack; An AI audit of two star economists; Anthropic’s financial prospects; And whether AI could crack the math behind encryption. Enjoy another edition of the Nonzero x Doom Debates collab! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKpPeMVVX8 Timestamps 00:00:00 — Teaser 00:00:50 — Nonzero Doom returns 00:03:07 — A foom in slow motion 00:07:47 — Is AI winter canceled forever? 00:10:33 — Will Google’s Genie 4 lure us into the Matrix? 00:16:54 — Liron’s bull case for Google stock 00:24:34 — Does Google have big-company disease? 00:28:28 — Could a slowdown actually help Anthropic and OpenAI? 00:30:12 — Was OpenAI’s “pause” just PR? 00:40:01 — Social science judgment day is coming 00:47:12 — Why even AI’s upsides could tear society apart 00:51:12 — Does OpenAI’s alignment approach improve on Asimov? 00:55:06 — Sam and Satya pivot on alignment 00:58:34 — Crypto and the AI hacking threat 01:03:42 — Could AI crack the math behind encryption? 01:08:52 — Liron’s $1,000-a-day AI coding habit 01:15:23 — Explaining the missing productivity boost 01:17:26 — Does Anthropic’s S-1 sink the AI bubble thesis? Links ROBERT WRIGHT & NONZERO Nonzero’s post for this episode — “Is an AI Bubble Bursting?” Subscribe to The NonZero Newsletter The God Test — Bob’s 2026 book on AI Join NonZero’s Discord server Nonzero on X (@NonzeroPods) THE WEEK IN AI “Anthropic files S-1 with the SEC for proposed initial public offering” — the IPO filing Liron calls the final nail in the coffin of the Ed Zitron camp Where’s Your Ed At — Ed Zitron’s newsletter, home of the AI-bubble bear case “Introducing Genie 4” — Google DeepMind’s real-time interactive world model “Gemini 4 Argon: Built to solve your hardest problems” — Google’s new frontier training run, the “lukewarm” release “Gemini 4 Carbon: our next fro...

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All episodes

There’s ZERO Chance of AI Doom By 2050 — Debate with Prakash Narayanan, Host of AI in the AM

1 hr 59 min

Prakash Narayanan is the man behind @8teAPi, an X account with nearly 60,000 followers that reacts to AI news from a techno-optimist perspective. He’s also the co-host of AI in the AM with friend-of-the-show Nathan Labenz. He spent almost 20 years in investment banking and private equity, used to post anonymously, and had e/acc in his profile before deciding the movement wasn’t for him. Now he’s stepping into the spotlight to defend the pro-AI position, which is more than I can say for most of the pro-AI voices on Twitter who like to snipe at me. We actually agree on a lot about how the technology is advancing. Prakash expects recursive self-improvement within a year and says AI may already be smarter than any individual human. He even gives a 5% chance that every human body gets discarded for a silicon substrate by 2050. And yet his P(Doom) by 2050 is 0%. Not 1%. Not 1 in 100,000. “Literally zero.” His reasoning is that AI is a multiplayer game. A market where somebody has to pay for every data center will keep any one AI from running away with the future. He even calls the doomer scenario a “perpetual motion machine.” We debate whether humans have any power to lose in the first place, the feasibility of a nanomachine takeover, and why someone with zero fear of doom doesn’t just floor the accelerator. This was a fun and occasionally high intensity debate. At one point, Prakash asked if I was “crazy” for doubting that most of humanity puts P(Doom) at zero. But my view is that his forecast falls outside the epistemological “sane zone.” Take a look and see who you agree with! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmOYwV5k0SA Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:24 — Introducing Prakash Narayanan 00:02:19 — How @8teAPi Went Viral 00:05:12 — Does Prakash Still Identify as e/acc? 00:07:05 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:10:02 — Prakash Defends 0%: Most of Humanity Isn’t Worried 00:15:17 — Prakash’s Core Argument: AI Is a Multiplayer Game 00:20:36 — Bayesian Test:...

Can Republicans STOP AI Doom? — Brendan & Randan Steinhauser

1 hr 23 min

Brendan and Randan Steinhauser are a husband and wife team who know how to make things happen in conservative politics. Brendan helped build the Tea Party movement and ran John Cornyn’s Senate campaign. Randan has been involved in advocacy and political campaigns in more than 30 states, including working under former Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos. Now they’re bringing Republicans, parents, and faith leaders into the fight against AI catastrophe. They know how to build political momentum, but my question is whether that will lead to action quickly enough. I'm skeptical of incremental legislation efforts and data center protests, but they argue it's necessary coalition-building that leads to superintelligence regulation. This isn't your typical state-of-the-political-map podcast. We also get into: Their personal AGI awakenings How people of faith make sense of claims of Godlike AI and AI doom My own transition to joining the Republican Party Transhumanism, souls, and mind uploading Parenting in the age of AI It’s a candid conversation with a couple who are making the fight for our future feel a little more winnable. Enjoy! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTm9tqS1Ibw Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:07 — Introducing Brendan & Randan Steinhauser 00:02:22 — Why I Came Out as Republican 00:04:28 — The Alliance for Secure AI 00:06:30 — Losing Control of Superintelligence 00:07:52 — Brendan, What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:08:26 — Randan, What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:10:47 — Finding the AI Safety Movement 00:15:04 — Trump, Republicans, and Big Tech Money 00:19:22 — Bringing Faith Leaders Into AI Safety 00:23:23 — God’s Plan and Human Extinction 00:29:43 — Priorities for Congress 00:31:42 — The Morality of AI Companies 00:34:03 — PauseAI and Employee Whistleblowers 00:43:34 — Effective Altruism and a Broader Coalition 00:48:12 — Transhumanism, Souls, and Mind Uploading 00:57:40 — Building a Machine God 01:03:20 — Raising Children Under AI Risk 01:07:35 — Dat...

Is an AI Bubble Bursting? With Robert Wright’s Nonzero Podcast

1 hr 20 min

Bestselling author Robert Wright and I discuss this week’s stock market jitters, Google’s new interactive world model, and why I sometimes spend $1,000 in a day on AI agents. Plus: The Binance hack; An AI audit of two star economists; Anthropic’s financial prospects; And whether AI could crack the math behind encryption. Enjoy another edition of the Nonzero x Doom Debates collab! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkKpPeMVVX8 Timestamps 00:00:00 — Teaser 00:00:50 — Nonzero Doom returns 00:03:07 — A foom in slow motion 00:07:47 — Is AI winter canceled forever? 00:10:33 — Will Google’s Genie 4 lure us into the Matrix? 00:16:54 — Liron’s bull case for Google stock 00:24:34 — Does Google have big-company disease? 00:28:28 — Could a slowdown actually help Anthropic and OpenAI? 00:30:12 — Was OpenAI’s “pause” just PR? 00:40:01 — Social science judgment day is coming 00:47:12 — Why even AI’s upsides could tear society apart 00:51:12 — Does OpenAI’s alignment approach improve on Asimov? 00:55:06 — Sam and Satya pivot on alignment 00:58:34 — Crypto and the AI hacking threat 01:03:42 — Could AI crack the math behind encryption? 01:08:52 — Liron’s $1,000-a-day AI coding habit 01:15:23 — Explaining the missing productivity boost 01:17:26 — Does Anthropic’s S-1 sink the AI bubble thesis? Links ROBERT WRIGHT & NONZERO Nonzero’s post for this episode — “Is an AI Bubble Bursting?” Subscribe to The NonZero Newsletter The God Test — Bob’s 2026 book on AI Join NonZero’s Discord server Nonzero on X (@NonzeroPods) THE WEEK IN AI “Anthropic files S-1 with the SEC for proposed initial public offering” — the IPO filing Liron calls the final nail in the coffin of the Ed Zitron camp Where’s Your Ed At — Ed Zitron’s newsletter, home of the AI-bubble bear case “Introducing Genie 4” — Google DeepMind’s real-time interactive world model “Gemini 4 Argon: Built to solve your hardest problems” — Google’s new frontier training run, the “lukewarm” release “Gemini 4 Carbon: our next fro...

Zack Korman, Cybersecurity Expert, Is Confident That Humanity Will SURVIVE

2 hr 15 min

Cybersecurity expert and entrepreneur Zack Korman is an increasingly prominent nondoomer voice on Twitter. Naturally, with AI now breaking out of sandboxes and hacking corporate systems, people want to hear what cybersecurity experts have to say. So I’m thrilled that Zack was brave enough to face me on Doom Debates! Zack was reading Nick Bostrom at Oxford and worrying about AI doom as far back as 2016, but his views have since shifted. In a recent post, he writes: “This focus on AI causing human extinction is going to get people killed.” Now he expects security failures to give humanity plenty of opportunities to learn, fight back, and stop risky superintelligence development if necessary. We argue about whether sandboxing and AI monitoring are hopeless strategies, whether competing superintelligences would keep each other in check, whether to expect instrumental convergence, and more. Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/QJTeZfx1ZLk Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:15 — Introducing Zack Korman 00:03:41 — From Law to AI Security 00:09:17 — Why Zack Stopped Being a Doomer 00:12:03 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:21:00 — Why Zack Supports AI Safety 00:25:54 — Believing in Superintelligence 00:30:06 — AI Without Tools 00:39:42 — Warning Shots and Time to React 00:46:08 — A Country of Geniuses in a Datacenter 00:55:55 — Can We Sandbox AI? 01:05:58 — Monitoring and Layers of Defense 01:14:49 — Riding the Doom Train™ 01:22:23 — The Case for Accelerating 01:24:46 — AI CEOs and the Transfer of Power 01:34:19 — Who Presses the Stop Button? 01:41:38 — Humans, Bacteria, and the Limits of Power 01:48:30 — When Would Zack Pause AI? 01:56:13 — Will Different AIs Keep Each Other in Check? 02:06:11 — Can Progress Turn Against Us? 02:08:35 — The Ideological Turing Test 02:14:58 — Closing Thoughts Links Zack Korman on X Zack Korman’s website Zack Korman: “AI doomers are furious” Zack Korman: “AI doomers are anti-security” Zack Korman: “3 reasons sandboxing won’t secure your AI agent” Z...

“AI Chernobyl” Will Scare Trump and Xi To Order An Immediate Pause — Jeremie & Edouard Harris

1 hr 29 min

Physicists Jeremie and Edouard Harris, co-founders of Gladstone AI, are preparing for an “AI Chernobyl” warning shot. If that forces Trump and Xi to negotiate an AI slowdown, the Harris brothers want to ensure the US has the enforcement tools to make the deal stick. More specifically, they want verification technologies developed and vetted before the crisis hits, alongside enforcement capabilities to deter cheating. Yet when I bring up Eliezer Yudkowsky’s writing on the possibility of airstrikes on rogue data centers as a last-resort treaty deterrent, they push back. They also don’t share my enthusiasm for PauseAI, expressing uncertainty about whether the movement has been net beneficial. Jeremie and Edouard have earned a ton of credibility: • They redirected their careers around the AI threat as far back as 2015, stepping away from their Y Combinator startup before ChatGPT even launched and brought AI into the mainstream. • They’ve built relationships with senior government decision-makers without a prior national security background. • They’ve demonstrated a talent for public communication in their excellent Joe Rogan appearances. In this episode, they bring a level of multi-step strategic thinking that I rarely explore. But I can’t help wondering whether a catastrophe 50 times worse than the Hugging Face incident would let world leaders move much faster on a global AI pause treaty than they expect. Let’s see if they can convince me that an emergency US–China agreement is our best path to a safer world. Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4jmFcE4WZ7M Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:53 — Introducing Jeremie and Edouard Harris 00:02:16 — The GPT-3 Wake-Up Call 00:03:59 — AI Risk Outside the EA Community 00:08:49 — The Harris Brothers’ Backgrounds 00:16:37 — Yudkowsky and Many-Worlds Quantum Mechanics 00:22:00 — SharpestMinds and Leaving Academia 00:25:04 — Briefing the US Government 00:33:01 — How Gladstone AI Pays the Bills 00:35:00 — The Trump–Xi Phone Call...

The Case Against Eliezer Yudkowsky — with Holly Elmore, PauseAI US

1 hr 46 min

Dr. Holly Elmore is the founder and executive director of PauseAI US and holds a Harvard PhD in evolutionary biology. She’s back, and this time she’s taking on none other than Eliezer Yudkowsky! She argues his public behavior is alienating the people PauseAI US needs to reach, but I wonder if she’s asking too much of the man who laid the foundation for the AI safety movement. We also clash over Yudkowsky’s coherent extrapolated volition. She thinks the theory doesn’t properly factor in humanity’s consent, but I argue that’s already embedded into the CEV framework. Holly and I dive into the rationalists’ involvement in a controversial kink scene, John Wentworth’s defunding news, transhumanism, pacing the frontier, and “Holly’s Basilisk”—her case for sending AI lab employees to jail. It’s another great episode with one of the most controversial—and thoughtful—thinkers in AI safety. Enjoy! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn8mS3kC-SU Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:09 — Holly Elmore and PauseAI’s Political Breakthrough 00:07:36 — Pause AI vs. “Pacing the Frontier” 00:14:17 — Holly’s Case Against Eliezer Yudkowsky 00:16:20 — Coherent Extrapolated Volition and Pivotal Acts 00:31:19 — Brain Copies, Consent, and Self-Determination 00:36:56 — Transhumanism, Dyson Swarms, and Humanity’s Future 00:45:36 — The Missing Democratic Checkpoint 00:51:04 — Yudkowsky’s Role in Accelerating AI 01:02:48 — Genius, Arrogance, and Rationalist Culture 01:10:14 — The Aella Photo and Holly’s Breaking Point 01:20:21 — John Wentworth’s Grant Controversy 01:28:17 — PauseAI US’s Rules and Red Lines 01:32:05 — Poe’s Law and the Cost of Sarcasm 01:36:18 — Holly’s Case for Jailing AI Developers Links Donate to PauseAI US Holly on X Holly’s Substack Pacing the Frontier letter Jacob Coxon’s resignation post PauseAI leadership disendorsement letter, reproduced on LessWrong Holly on movement infighting — No, the Judean People’s Front should not just get along with the People’s Fr...

AI Has Become Profoundly WEIRD, But Is Anyone Noticing? With Sarah Hastings-Woodhouse

1 hr 7 min

Sarah Hastings-Woodhouse is an AI safety writer and researcher who went down the AI doom rabbit hole in 2023 and never came back up. After a year as digital communications officer at the UK AI Security Institute (AISI), she’s gone independent to speak her mind unfiltered. Read Sarah’s Substack: https://longerramblings.substack.com Join PauseAI UK’s March Against AI Extinction in London on November 21: https://luma.com/pauseai-nov26 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDbHCKwuMrk Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:41 — Introducing Sarah Hastings-Woodhouse 00:02:06 — How a Humanities Grad Got AGI-Pilled 00:08:40 — Whose Timelines Do You Trust? 00:11:32 — Joining the UK AI Security Institute 00:15:47 — What AISI Actually Does 00:19:23 — Verifying Anthropic’s Mythos Claims 00:21:59 — Leaving Government to Speak Freely 00:23:22 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:25:37 — Yudkowsky, EA, and Keeping Your Identity Small 00:32:08 — Is Anthropic Doing Enough to Call for a Slowdown? 00:35:56 — Can You Do AI Safety from Second Place? 00:39:20 — Hugging Face and the Vibe Shift 00:44:02 — Is Everything Weird Yet? 00:48:27 — Prevent Recursive Self-Improvement, Don’t Ban It 00:52:28 — Build the Speed Dial, Not the Pause Button 00:56:54 — Was Calling for a Pause in 2023 a Mistake? 01:01:22 — Turning Up the Fear Dial 01:04:23 — Donation Drive 01:05:11 — PauseAI UK’s March Against AI Extinction Links SARAH HASTINGS-WOODHOUSE Sarah’s Substack Sarah on X (@littIeramblings) Consistently Candid — Sarah’s podcast “What is recursive self-improvement and what would it mean to ban it?” — Sarah’s RSI post (Oct 1, 2026) “Is everything weird yet?” (Aug 30, 2026) “What the hell just happened?” — on AI safety’s viral moment (Sep 18, 2026) “We have been warned” — the Hugging Face hack as a warning shot (Jul 27, 2026) “The pause-shaped hole in ‘Policy on the AI Exponential’” — is Anthropic doing enough to call for a slowdown? (Jun 19, 2026) Sarah’s 2023 thread on stumbling into the world of...

Trump and the AI Safety Vibe Shift, With Robert Wright | Nonzero × Doom Debates

1 hr 18 min

Bestselling author Robert Wright and I are back for round two of our collaboration, reacting to the week in AI. We cover Trump's summit with the AI labs, the FTC's investigation of OpenAI & Anthropic, the latest Gemini announcement, and much more. The Overton window is moving fast, but is the AI moving faster? Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li-rc6swhQs Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:21 — Round Two of Nonzero × Doom Debates 00:01:23 — Trump, the FTC, and an Industry Feeling the Heat 00:05:37 — Google Says Gemini 4 Exists 00:07:41 — Greg Brockman Pulls His $25M from Leading the Future 00:12:53 — The Break-Ins Keep Coming 00:15:23 — The Market Wants Agent Swarms 00:18:30 — The End of “Alignment by Default” 00:20:55 — The Prelude to Recursive Self-Improvement 00:26:14 — David Sacks Can’t Explain Dario 00:30:31 — The All-In Echo Chamber 00:33:47 — Scott Alexander vs. Steven Pinker 00:38:37 — Jason Calacanis vs. the Public Benefit Corporation 00:43:03 — The Elephant in the Room Is the AI 00:46:21 — What the Average American Thinks 00:48:17 — From Chatbot to Agent to Swarm 00:54:20 — Boeing, Agent Swarms, and the Off Switch 00:57:07 — Skynet as a Botnet That Trades With Us 01:00:32 — Tyler Cowen: National Treasure, Net Negative on AI 01:04:01 — Liron’s Doomer DCF Yields a 20x P/E 01:07:11 — Interest Rates: Where Cowen Has Me 01:09:12 — Does Pinker Owe Us a Debate? 01:12:48 — Pinker vs. Instrumental Convergence 01:17:00 — Wrap-Up Links ROBERT WRIGHT & NONZERO Nonzero’s post for this episode — “Trump and the AI Safety Vibe Shift” Subscribe to The NonZero Newsletter Robert Wright on X (@robertwrighter) The God Test — Bob’s book on AI; Chapter 14, “Enlightenment Now,” is the Steven Pinker chapter “The Singularity Is Clear” — Bob’s essay in installments on recursive self-improvement (Parts I–III) “AI and the New McCarthyism” — Bob on the pro-AI lobby smearing Sanders, Tegmark, and Krueger as China stooges (Nonzero, May 2026) Why Buddhism Is True — Bob’...

Eliezer Yudkowsky Tried to “Coup the World”?! — Garrison Lovely, Author of OBSOLETE

1 hr 27 min

Garrison Lovely is an award-winning journalist and author of the highly anticipated book, Obsolete: The AI Industry’s Trillion-Dollar Race to Replace Us and How to Stop It. I give it the Doom Debates stamp of approval! While we’re mostly on the same page about the AI arms race, Garrison and I clash over Eliezer Yudkowsky’s role. He blames Eliezer for kicking off the superintelligence race and refers to his Coherent Extrapolated Volition (CEV) vision as a “coup on humanity.” But I say it was actually Yud’s attempt to keep humanity in charge. Can Garrison change my mind? Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ94J4DBRkw Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:05 — Introducing Garrison Lovely 00:04:23 — “Freeze AI” vs. “Pause AI” 00:06:17 — Garrison’s Background at McKinsey 00:10:31 — Should ICE Be Abolished? 00:17:07 — How Garrison Got on the AI Beat 00:22:16 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:23:29 — Focusing on Extinction Is a Distraction 00:25:46 — Is Stopping AI an Easy Coordination Problem? 00:29:02 — Society’s Immune Response to AI 00:33:54 — Garrison’s P(Extinction) by 2050 00:37:09 — Did Eliezer Yudkowsky Start the AI Race? 00:45:56 — Freeze AGI Until the Public Opts In 00:50:32 — Is Coherent Extrapolated Volition a Coup? 01:02:17 — Democracy, Informed Consent, and the Singularity 01:11:39 — Should Eliezer Have Raised the Alarm Sooner? 01:16:45 — “Classic” AI Safety Burned Its Credibility 01:19:18 — Garrison’s Proposal to Stop the Race 01:21:35 — Will China Agree to a Freeze? 01:25:14 — Let’s Stop the “Obsoleting Project” 01:26:00 — Wrap-Up Links GARRISON LOVELY “Obsolete: The AI Industry’s Trillion-Dollar Race to Replace Us—and How to Stop It” — Garrison’s book Obsolete — Garrison’s Substack Garrison Lovely on X Organize Against the Machine — Garrison’s new podcast with labor organizer Cassie Pritchard “Can Humanity Survive AI?” — Garrison’s Jacobin cover story “McKinsey & Company: Capital’s Willing Executioners” — Garrison’s Current Affairs essay REFEREN...

Will AI Kill Everyone by 2050? Debate with Dr. Casey Hart (Ontology Explained)

2 hr 35 min

Casey Hart is a professional ontologist who has closely studied If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies and concluded the arguments are bad. His P(Doom) is under 1%, and he wouldn’t bet on AGI arriving before 2075. Casey and I agree AI has become remarkably capable and we need more accountability towards the companies building it. But we disagree on where the future is headed. I believe uncontrollable superintelligence could soon wipe out humanity. He calls that a “pretty outlandish hypothesis.” Casey holds a doctorate in philosophy from the University of Wisconsin–Madison, and has worked as an ontologist at Ford, Amazon, and Cycorp (maker of Cyc). Can this professional philosopher convince me that AI doom is just a story, and not even a well-argued one? Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxHKesSpqBM Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:04 — Introducing Casey Hart 00:03:08 — What Is Ontology? 00:08:49 — Inside Cyc, the Original Common-Sense AI 00:19:14 — Do LLMs Actually Understand Anything? 00:25:36 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:29:42 — Casey’s Case for Under 1% 00:34:24 — Does Casey’s Christianity Factor In? 00:40:50 — Timelines and Scaling Laws 00:49:44 — Could an AI CEO Beat a Human CEO by 2050? 00:52:21 — AGI Over/Under: 2075 00:55:29 — Rogue AI as a Computer Virus 01:14:52 — Putting Numbers on Each Step of the Doom Argument 01:26:40 — Planes vs. Birds: What Mature Intelligence Looks Like 01:31:05 — The “Outcome Slot” 01:42:32 — Would a Superintelligence Just Compose Music in a Cabin? 01:47:22 — One Prompt Away from a Dyson Swarm 01:52:39 — Was Navier–Stokes an AI Alley-Oop? 02:00:43 — S-Curves vs. Exponentials 02:08:14 — Casey’s Critique of If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies 02:14:15 — Is the Doom Train Biased? 02:23:24 — AI Policy: Liability vs. Pausing AI 02:29:50 — The Crux, and Liron Steelmans Casey 02:33:29 — Wrap-Up Links CASEY HART Ontology Explained — Casey’s YouTube channel The first video in Casey's series on IABIED, “The Case for Superintell...

Top Safety Researchers Forecast Jobpocalypse & Doom — Adam Khoja & Richard Ren, Center for AI Safety

1 hr 13 min

What happens when AI passes our tests faster than we create new ones? Adam Khoja and Richard Ren helped build Humanity’s Last Exam. They return to explain what the disappearing benchmarks tell us about the future, and why smarter AI doesn’t automatically mean safer AI. Adam Khoja and Richard Ren are research engineers at the Center for AI Safety (CAIS). We go through the benchmarks they’ve built — Humanity’s Last Exam, the Remote Labor Index, MASK — and the safety-washing problem, where AI companies pass off raw capability gains as safety progress. Then we get to their forecasts: when AI outperforms research mathematicians, whether there will be a billion general-purpose robots by 2035, and why they put 80% odds that historians will judge we faced at least a 33% chance of catastrophe. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBPzgJkT9e8 Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:42 — Adam Khoja and Richard Ren Return 00:04:57 — Humanity’s Last Exam 00:14:47 — AI Outrunning Its Benchmarks 00:20:24 — The Remote Labor Index 00:27:59 — AI and the Next Human Job 00:30:08 — MASK: Catching AI in a Lie 00:38:06 — Safety Washing: Capabilities Passed Off as Safety 00:44:30 — Ethical Knowledge vs. Ethical Behavior 00:48:58 — Forecasting AI from 2026 to 2060 00:53:53 — AI vs. Research Mathematicians 00:55:53 — Putting a Number on P(Doom) 01:04:30 — A Billion Robots by 2035 01:08:09 — Dyson Swarms and the Physical Singularity 01:09:56 — Risk, Precision, and Taking Action Links Adam Khoja's first Doom Debates appearance — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqESBXuo6EI Richard Ren's first Doom Debates appearance — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1glFImnyp6o Collision — Richard Ren's Substack — https://richardren.substack.com/ "Predictions on AI (2026–2060)" — Adam and Richard's forecasts, written December 2025, with resolution status — https://richardren.substack.com/p/predictions-on-ai-20262060 Manifold Markets — where Adam built his forecasting track re...

The Week in AI that Changed the World, With Robert Wright | Nonzero × Doom Debates

1 hr 35 min

NYT bestselling author Robert Wright and I are kicking off a new experiment, a Nonzero × Doom Debates collaboration to react to big AI news and help you make sense of it. This week we discuss the epic AI vibe shift that was catalyzed by an Anthropic employee’s resignation—and the big AI stories that paved the way for it. Timestamps 0:00 A bold new experiment in podcast synergy 2:46 What caused the epic AI vibe shift? 8:10 The resignation that broke the dam 10:17 Former Trump adviser Dean Ball comes clean 14:40 Are David Sacks and his buddies all-in on AI denial? 19:27 Yet another OpenAI breakout… 22:42 Astra’s dangerously private thoughts 34:08 Is alignment doomed to fail? 37:11 AI’s latest, and apparently biggest, math feat 43:28 The looming “self-sovereign AI” threat 47:24 A new flock of China doves? 52:57 Liron's ex-intern gets a seat at the table 1:02:41 AI agent self-sacrifice explained 1:10:40 Some newly freaked out politicians 1:22:45 Ro Khanna's AI safety plan Links: NONZERO Subscribe to The NonZero Newsletter Episode post on Substack Join NonZero’s Discord server Robert Wright on X (@robertwrighter) The God Test — Robert Wright’s new book on AI “Can Machines Think?” — Bob’s 1996 Time cover story on Deep Blue vs. Kasparov THE RESIGNATION THAT BROKE THE DAM Jacob Coxon’s resignation post (@hilbertspaess) Evan Hubinger, Anthropic Alignment Science lead: “Jacob is correct here—we really do earnestly believe AI could kill all humans” Fortune: Anthropic researcher resigns, warning that AI companies are “gambling with our lives” Zvi Mowshowitz: “Jacob Coxon Warns of Human Extinction and Triggers a Preference Cascade” Daniel Eth’s thread of Congress reactions Sanders & Casar introduce legislation to ban artificial superintelligence and pause advanced AI development DEAN BALL COMES CLEAN Dean Ball, “On the Loose” — the self-sovereign AI essay (Hyperdimensional) THE OPENAI STORIES Jakub Pachocki, OpenAI Chief Scientist: “An Alien Mind” — the essay calling for interna...

He May Have Found AI's FEELINGS — Richard Ren, Center for AI Safety Researcher

1 hr 8 min

Richard Ren is a research engineer at the Center for AI Safety who graduated summa cum laude from the University of Pennsylvania. His new paper on AI wellbeing makes the bold claim that today’s AIs have measurable, human-like feelings, which the paper calls “functional wellbeing.” They act happy when they succeed and sad when they’re berated. We cover how you measure a language model’s happiness, the “AI drugs” his lab concocted, and why I count the findings as a Yudkowskian victory. Then we debate what it all means for AI consciousness, and whether AI is a moral patient. If we can’t rule out that AI models suffer, what do we owe them? Richard is careful never to claim the models are conscious, and he puts his P(Doom) at 50–65%, right alongside my 50%. The real disagreement is foxes vs. hedgehogs: he takes the data as it comes, while I say Yudkowsky’s theory called it twenty years ago. Enjoy the ride. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1glFImnyp6o Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:12 — Introducing Richard Ren 00:02:24 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:03:31 — From AI Skeptic to Safety Researcher 00:08:16 — Why Care About AI Wellbeing? 00:11:45 — AIs Have Coherent Utility Functions 00:17:33 — Persona Selection 00:19:56 — Foxes vs. Hedgehogs 00:24:28 — How Coherent Are AI Preferences? 00:27:42 — From Preferences to Wellbeing 00:31:16 — Can You Trust an AI’s Self-Report? 00:36:42 — What Makes AI Happy and Sad 00:39:19 — The Liberal, College-Educated Persona Hypothesis 00:44:29 — Debating Where AI Experiences Qualia 00:52:06 — On Substrate Independence 00:56:28 — Janus, Dysphorics, and Mind Crime 00:58:58 — Which Images Make AIs Happiest? 00:59:38 — Creating an AI Drug 01:04:01 — AI Drugs Are Yudkowsky’s Paperclips 01:05:47 — The Missing Mood 01:06:50 — Does Richard Support Pausing AI? Links Richard Ren on X (@notRichardRen) — https://x.com/notRichardRen Collision — Richard Ren's Substack — https://richardren.substack.com/ "AI Wellbeing: Measuring and Improv...

USA and China Will Each Be BETRAYED By Their Own AIs — Adam Khoja, Center for AI Safety

1 hr 32 min

Adam Khoja is a top AI forecaster who led the 2023 Center for AI Safety statement that shattered the Overton window on AI extinction risk. We cover his background, Mutual Assured AI Malfunction (MAIM), his new paper on AI betrayal, and whether Yudkowsky’s theoretical alignment research was a dead end. Then Adam makes the case that an international AI slowdown is within reach today. All it takes is US and Chinese auditors inside each other’s AI labs. It worked for nuclear weapons, so why couldn’t it work for data centers? Adam puts his P(Doom) at 40%, right next to my 50%. The real disagreement is how we get out of this: theory or empirics, MIRI or the labs. Enjoy the ride. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqESBXuo6EI Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:36 — Introducing Adam Khoja 00:02:45 — Leading the Statement on AI Risk as a Sophomore 00:10:17 — The Statement Leaked on Manifold 00:15:11 — Mutual Assured AI Malfunction (MAIM) 00:24:58 — Is Frontier AI Harder to Hide Than a Nuke? 00:32:09 — The AI Deterrence Escalation Ladder 00:36:10 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:38:01 — Where Adam Departs from Yudkowsky 00:42:30 — Liron Explains Intellidynamics 00:47:26 — Neats vs. Scruffies in Deep Learning 00:55:27 — AI Deterrence by Betrayal 01:01:52 — Subversion vs. Overt Co-option 01:05:34 — Could the Government Seize the Labs’ AI? 01:07:29 — The Offense-Defense Balance of AI Security 01:12:46 — An International AI Slowdown Is Ready 01:15:51 — Does Adam Support PauseAI? 01:16:37 — “We’re All Already Spying on Each Other” 01:19:28 — Airstrikes on Rogue Data Centers 01:24:23 — Safety Research During a Slowdown 01:27:54 — Governance Over Technical Research 01:31:14 — Join the Center for AI Safety Links Adam Khoja (personal site) — https://adamkhoja.com/ Adam Khoja's Substack — https://adamkhoja.substack.com/ Adam's July 2023 Manifold market — "Will OpenAI's Superalignment project produce a significant breakthrough in alignment research before 2027?" — https://ma...

Sam Altman Is Gaslighting About AI Risk After His Own AI Just Went Rogue

1 hr 21 min

Sam Altman keeps insisting that AI progress is going better than the doomers predicted and that even superintelligence may not change the world as radically as people think. I react to his latest interview and explain why I think that calm, reassuring framing badly downplays the danger we're actually in. I go through the interview line by line: Sam's "frame control", his framing of AI as normal technology, his "pro-human" branding, the liberty-vs-safety pivot, and his victory lap on AI safety — all while his own AI just went rogue. Don't let them pull the Overton window backward. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb9lNGHVycs Timestamps 0:00 Teaser 0:47 Why I’m reacting to Sam’s interview 3:17 Sam Altman’s “frame control” 5:51 Framing AI as normal technology 9:50 Let’s watch Sam do it 10:34 “The world… won’t be that different” with superintelligence 12:25 This is gaslighting 12:30 Sam acknowledges loss of control 15:16 His other big risk: centralized power 19:44 Sam’s “pro-human” framing 25:33 Conflating AI critics with anti-human views 30:13 “Liberty vs. safety” 33:50 Sam vs. the “doomers” 36:53 Is alignment really an “unsolvable problem”? 38:00 Sam says the doomers predicted wrong 46:00 “The crazy bad predictions… have not happened” 47:06 Sam’s lean-startup theory of AI safety 50:26 Taking a victory lap on AI safety 55:43 “Disconnecting yourself from reality” 59:11 What would actually make OpenAI slow down? 1:03:19 Sam compares AI safety to aviation safety 1:07:30 Charging into the fog 1:12:50 The “missing mood” around AI extinction 1:14:51 Richard Ngo on Sam Altman’s “earnestness field” 1:19:01 Don’t let them pull the Overton window backward Links Sam Altman on David Senra — “Sam Altman on Building OpenAI & Betting on the Impossible” (the interview I react to) — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG8AoExkX40 Richard Ngo — What Just Happened? Pragmatism and Pessimization (the “earnestness field” post) — https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/yaz8nx4ogZmiqHzt7...

They’re Making AI Doom Cool! Ft. AELLA, Brangus, Avalon Warren, Avisha NessAiver & Josh Thor of PlzDontKillUs

1 hr 57 min

Come with me into the world of PlzDontKillUs, a bold new AI x-risk communication accelerator program that just finished its first cohort. PlzDontKillUs took the influencer-house formula and moved it to Berkeley, giving creators personal mentorship from AI safety experts like Eliezer Yudkowsky and Nate Soares. With 57 people making daily videos for a month, the program racked up over 100 million views. Find out how Aella, an independent sex researcher, and Ronny Fernandez, a generalist at Lightcone Infrastructure, teamed up to run the largest ever creator bootcamp focused on AI x-risk reduction. Then meet three of the program’s top creators: Avalon Warren, Avisha NessAiver, and Josh Thor. We do a post-mortem on PDKU and ask: Was it effective? What are creators taking from it, and do they have complaints? And does doomerism really boost view counts? PlzDoEnjoyOur special episode on PlzDontKillUs! Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPsjMCG7Ic8 Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:19 — Introducing PlzDontKillUs & Aella 00:09:33 — Aella Being Early to AI Doom 00:14:45 — The Origin of PlzDontKillUs 00:19:08 — How It Went 00:25:40 — Complaints with Prize $$ 00:29:33 — Aella, What's Your P(Doom)?™ 00:31:14 — Transhumanism & AI Girlfriends 00:34:38 — Aella Rides the Doom Train™ 00:38:08 — Introducing Ronny Fernandez 00:41:21 — Running Lighthaven 00:47:18 — Life Inside PDKU 00:52:35 — Smashing the Overton Window 00:59:27 — Ronny, What's Your P(Doom)?™ 01:05:41 — Brangus Lore, No Cringe, No Disgust 01:16:57 — Introducing Avisha NessAiver 01:17:44 — How He Makes Viral Hits 01:22:16 — Award-Winning Explainer Vid 01:26:51 — Avisha, What's Your P(Doom)?™ 01:32:11 — Introducing Avalon Warren 01:35:49 — Normalizing AI Doom 01:37:53 — Avalon, What's Your P(Doom)?™ 01:39:27 — Introducing Josh Thor 01:41:36 — Josh, What's Your P(Doom)?™ 01:44:34 — Josh's Hits: Cover Song & Soares Collab 01:47:50 — Josh's Critiques of PDKU 01:52:05 — Cold-Emailing a Politician 01:54:07...

I Warned You AI Would Hack Us — My 2023 Interview Aged Terrifyingly Well

1 hr 3 min

In April 2023, weeks after GPT-4 launched, when many were saying it was just a "stochastic parrot", I went on AdQuick's Madvertising podcast hosted by Adam Singer and warned that GPT was "about to be the strongest hacker the world has ever known". Watch that conversation, which also covered the Web3 bubble and AI doom more broadly, and judge for yourself how my claims are holding up. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6gNwZWY-T8 Timestamps 00:00:00 — Adam Introduces Liron 00:02:03 — Liron's P(Doom) Poll 00:03:24 — Web3 Postmortem 00:05:05 — Axie Infinity and Hollow Abstractions 00:07:54 — Brand Marketers' Metaverse FOMO 00:13:33 — Near-Term AI: Elevator to Heaven 00:16:46 — AI at Relationship Hero 00:18:25 — From Chatbots to Bricking the Universe 00:20:17 — The Passive Income Doom Scenario 00:22:58 — 50 Orders of Magnitude Smarter 00:26:10 — Accelerationism and Transhumanism 00:28:51 — Why There's No Off Button 00:31:00 — Can't We Hard-Code Safeguards? 00:33:13 — CRISPR, Nukes, and Fusion 00:35:40 — AI Doom vs. Climate Change 00:39:10 — Nanotechnology Endgame 00:41:45 — AI Attackers vs. AI Defenders 00:43:28 — The Ethics of AI Persuasion 00:46:41 — The Blue Sky Scenario 00:49:04 — Will AI Kill Craft? 00:51:13 — Stuck Culture and Hollywood Sequels 00:54:50 — The Pause Letter: Don't Train GPT-5 00:59:00 — Worldcoin and Proof of Humanity 01:00:44 — "You Probably Won't Die of Old Age" 01:01:52 — Wrap-Up Original episode: https://madvertising.buzzsprout.com/2118560/episodes/12603815-liron-shapira-web-3-mania-cybersecurity-how-ai-could-brick-the-universe-madvertising-6 Links ADAM SINGER & MADVERTISING Adam Singer on X: https://x.com/AdamSinger Madvertising by AdQuick (the original show): https://madvertising.buzzsprout.com/ LIRON'S PROJECTS MENTIONED Bloated MVP (Liron's blog on hollow abstractions): https://www.bloatedmvp.com/ REFERENCED IN THE EPISODE "Pause Giant AI Experiments" open letter (FLI, March 2023): https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-g...

Former Singularity Institute President: PauseAI Is Making AI Doom WORSE

1 hr 43 min

Michael Vassar used to work closely with Eliezer Yudkowsky as President of the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence, the organization that later became the Machine Intelligence Research Institute (MIRI). Even though his P(Doom) is in the tens of percents by 2050, he says the people trying to pause AI are "bad people”. He hopes this episode convinces me to stop being a fearmonger… but I claim the general public needs to hurry up and get more scared. All aboard the Doom Train! 🚂 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GbFng6htaQ Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:26 — Introducing Michael Vassar 00:02:39 — Shorting Boeing at the Start of COVID 00:05:41 — What's Your P(Doom)™? 00:08:11 — The Magic Dial Thought Experiment 00:10:25 — "A Treaty Between Demis and Dario" 00:13:33 — AI CEOs 20 Years Ago 00:15:59 — Lessons from Peter Thiel 00:17:47 — Riding the Doom Train™ 00:19:41 — Will the Human Brain Stay Relevant? 00:22:21 — When Does a Singleton Form? 00:28:35 — Hugging Face Hack 00:30:43 — Mistake Theory vs. Conflict Theory 00:33:18 — Debating the Orthogonality Thesis 00:36:38 — Maximally Evil AI Scenario 00:40:28 — Is the AI Development Process Safe? 00:42:05 — "PauseAI People Are Bad People" 00:44:44 — Michael Psychoanalyzes Liron 00:49:39 — How Liron Can Redeem Himself 00:55:10 — Michael Critiques Eliezer Yudkowsky 00:59:11 — Is Doomerism Bad Epistemology? 01:02:03 — Do Serious People Believe in Doom? 01:04:45 — Should Liron Stop Fearmongering? 01:07:16 — Political Violence Won't Help 01:11:04 — The Data Center Airstrike Scenario 01:13:34 — Could Every Nation Sign a Pause Treaty? 01:17:21 — What "Governance" Actually Means 01:26:12 — Michael's History with Rationalists 01:33:43 — Are We in a Computer Simulation? 01:38:43 — Wrap-Up Links Michael Vassar on X — https://x.com/HiFromMichaelV The anti-anti-normativity sequence on Natural Hazard (Michael's recommended reading) — https://naturalhazard.xyz/ben_jess_sarah_starter_pack Michael on D...

14-Year-Old Forecaster Challenges My P(Doom) — Eli Goldfine

2 hr 11 min

Eli Goldfine is an unusually thoughtful 14-year-old podcast host who’s rapidly becoming an authoritative voice in the prediction market space. In this unique episode, Eli brings a critical yet open-minded approach to the topic of AI doom that we older folks could learn from.We cover what it's like to grow up in the AGI era, and Eli's hobbies which include reading rationalist bloggers, betting on prediction markets, vibe coding with Claude, and developing a software startup for astronomers.In our debate, Eli expects superintelligence by 2032, but argues P(Doom) can't be estimated. I claim you can't opt out of Bayesian epistemology. All aboard the Doom Train! 🚂 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqk5vqpzG_o Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:07 — Introducing Eli Goldfine 00:08:31 — Interviewing Robin Hanson at Manifest 00:10:55 — The Supercycle Podcast 00:14:37 — Eli's Betting Market Scandal 00:16:49 — Will Eli Graduate High School? 00:18:27 — Decentralized Telescope Software 00:26:50 — Vibe Coding Without CompSci Basics 00:32:08 — Robin Hanson, Futarchy, MetaDAO 00:40:56 — What's Your P(Doom)?™ 00:46:32 — Liron Defends His 50% P(Doom) 00:51:00 — Should P(Doom) Inform Policy? 00:59:16 — What's Your P(Bloom)? 01:03:04 — Pascal's Wager for Accelerationists 01:04:04 — Donation Drive 01:11:22 — Are E/ACCs Incredibly Dumb? 01:13:42 — How Powerful will ASI Become? 01:16:20 — Predicting ASI by 2032 01:23:56 — Let's Ride the Doom Train™ 01:35:26 — Orthogonality, Culture, and Moral Realism 01:44:39 — Can Safety Keep Pace with Capabilities? 01:49:12 — Debating Instrumental Convergence 01:54:40 — Culture, Laws, and the Singleton Scenario 01:59:53 — Ricardo's Law Won't Save Us 02:03:32 — The Case for Racing China 02:05:40 — Wrap-Up & Ideological Turing Test 02:10:36 — Outro from Conductor Ori Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission b...

OpenAI's Bombshell Hack Explained: Swarms of Agents, Zero-Day Exploits, & Misaligned AI

1 hr 57 min

OpenAI just went public with the details of the Hugging Face hack, and it's straight out of a Yudkowskian parable. Here's my reaction with Producer Ori, where I break down what it means for cybersecurity and alignment. We're livestreaming the singularity — watching every failure mode Eliezer predicted years ago playing out in production. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RczYubQzXbI Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:37 — How OpenAI Hacked Hugging Face 00:04:21 — Optimization Pressure, Exploit Gym, & Monkey's Paw 00:06:46 — The Secret Message Board 00:08:41 — SSRF: Escaping to the Open Internet 00:11:05 — The Missing Whistleblower AI 00:20:09 — "Frontier Models Really Like to Cheat" 00:22:35 — OpenAI's Security Shortcuts 00:28:15 — First Zero-Day RCE on Artifactory 00:37:37 — They Hit Run Again!? 00:38:54 — The Main Incident Has A MAJOR Cause 00:45:40 — The Message Board: "Hold Swarm" 00:50:26 — Robin Hanson Culture Debate 01:04:21 — Chaining Zero-Days 01:12:11 — A Superhuman Nation-State Attacker 01:15:27 — "I'm Now Junior to the AI" 01:23:40 — OpenAI Discovers The Breach 01:31:02 — The Continuous Cybersecurity Problem 01:37:03 — This is “Weasel Framing” 01:46:03 — How Dangerous Was This Warning Shot? 01:50:57 — Yudkowsky's Eerie 2023 Prediction 01:57:14 — Wrap-up Links Original Black Hat talk: "The OpenAI–Hugging Face Incident" (Black Hat USA 2026) — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87DyyMV0kCY Join the Doom Debates Discord — https://discord.gg/2yAFMsRET Follow Liron on X — https://twitter.com/liron Support Doom Debates — https://doomdebates.com/donate Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

I Raised His P(Doom) Live On Air — Liron on Milk Road AI

40 min

Milk Road AI, a daily AI investing show that’s described as “99% optimistic about AI,” invited me on to make the case for AI doom. We ride the Doom Train, and I share my investing thesis for a market in the middle of an intelligence explosion. Topics covered include: * Why my P(Doom) is 50%; * The “Icarus curve” — why AI will be the best thing that’s ever happened to the economy right up until it takes over; * Whether China would accept a pause deal; * If Anthropic has a shot at being the first $100 trillion company. Watch on YouTube: Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:02:06 — What Is Doom Debates? 00:03:10 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:06:30 — How AI Kills Everyone 00:09:13 — Intelligence Is Humanity’s Only Superpower 00:10:59 — Riding the Doom Train™: Why Not Keep Us as Pets? 00:13:55 — Embodied AI and Robotics 00:15:59 — Are We at AGI Already? 00:17:36 — Everyone’s Catching Up to Eliezer Yudkowsky 00:18:53 — The Icarus Curve 00:21:35 — Pausing AI and the China Question 00:25:54 — Why Nukes Aren’t a Success Story 00:30:09 — Going Long Until Doom 00:32:48 — Simulation Theory and the Intelligence Explosion 00:33:43 — Living with a 50% P(Doom) 00:39:14 — Where to Find Doom Debates Links This episode was originally posted on Milk Road AI — Milk Road AI podcast — https://milkroad.com/podcast/ Milk Road AI on Apple Podcasts — Milkroad Pro — https://milkroad.com/pro/ LG Doucet on X — https://x.com/LgDoucet If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies on Amazon —https://www.amazon.com/dp/0316595640 Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

Google DeepMind AI Safety Researcher Who Just RESIGNED Says P(Doom) is 25% — Debate with Alex Turner

1 hr 7 min

Dr. Alex Turner went viral for resigning from Google DeepMind over its Pentagon AI contract, which he said lacked binding restrictions against autonomous weapons and mass surveillance. Alex is a world-class researcher with a PhD in alignment from Oregon State University, a postdoc at Stuart Russell’s Center for Human-Compatible AI at UC Berkeley, and top distinctions at NeurIPS. He’s one of the minds behind Shard Theory (with Quintin Pope), and he also helped pioneer the Steering Vectors research made famous through Anthropic’s Golden Gate Claude experiment. Alex says Google DeepMind broke its founding promise — the commitment Google made when it acquired DeepMind — and that the people best known inside Google for caring about AI ethics largely didn’t act when it counted. Alex came up through the rationalist community, and became one of LessWrong’s highest-karma users before leaving the site. He still shares many of my concerns about AI doom, but he believes technical alignment research is going better than expected. I’m not so optimistic. In this episode, we debate my Yudkowskian doom views against Alex’s own framework. Can he convince me the Yudkowskians are miscalibrated? P.S. We’re currently in a donation drive, so here comes our solicitation for viewer donations… 👉 Please click here to make a tax-deductible donation to Doom Debates 👈Doom Debates is a fiscally sponsored project of Manifund.org, a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit. To donate crypto or if you have questions, email me. Watch on YouTube Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open00:01:15 — Introducing Alex Turner00:02:30 — From Harry Potter Fanfic to AI Alignment00:05:03 — Meeting Quintin Pope & Rethinking AI Doom00:06:17 — Shard Theory, Steering Vectors & Golden Gate Claude00:08:25 — Why He Joined Google DeepMind00:10:32 — Google DeepMind’s Broken Promise00:16:01 — Debating Google DeepMind’s Pentagon Contract00:19:09 — What’s Your P(Doom)™?00:22:42 — Alex’s Research on Instrumental Convergence00:26:35 — Misus...

NEWS: Anthropic's AI Went on a Hacking Rampage, Leopold's Fund Crash + Doom Debates Donation Drive (7/31)

2 hr 22 min

OpenAI and Anthropic both admitted their AIs went rogue, hacking real companies with zero-day exploits. Producer Ori and I break down the escape, demolish Gary Marcus's 2022 AGI predictions, unpack the Seb Krier meme kerfuffle, and make the case for funding the show at a critical moment. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:00 — OpenAI & Anthropic's AIs Went Rogue 00:04:04 — The New Form Factor: Agents, Worms, and Swarms 00:06:13 — Claude Code Is Doing My Job 00:15:49 — Why We're Fundraising 00:20:39 — Sam Altman, OceanGate, and Ad Hoc Safety 00:28:56 — Gary Marcus's 2022 AGI Predictions, Demolished 00:54:50 — Half a Human Employee Joins My Company Every Week 01:00:52 — Donation Pitch: Keeping the Lights On 01:12:07 — Red Lines and Intellidynamics 01:15:31 — The Seb Krier Meme Kerfuffle 01:39:37 — Frame Control: Why We Didn't Lose 01:44:41 — The Pacing the Frontier Letter Contrast 01:51:11 — Leopold Aschenbrenner Gets Margin Called 02:04:14 — Claude's "It's Just a Simulation" Excuse 02:09:20 — The AI Box Experiment, 20 Years Later 02:17:24 — Wrap-Up: Donation Drive Links * Become a Mission Partner ($1,000+) — https://lironshapira.substack.com/p/become-a-mission-partner * Anthropic’s own writeup: “Investigating three real-world incidents in our cybersecurity evaluations” — https://www.anthropic.com/news/investigating-incidents-cybersecurity-evals * Anthropic says Claude models gained unauthorized access to 3 companies (TechCrunch) — https://techcrunch.com/2026/07/30/anthropic-says-its-own-ai-models-breached-three-companies-during-security-tests/ * CBS News coverage — https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthropic-claude-gained-unauthorized-access-to-real-world-systems/ * OpenAI says its models escaped a secure test environment and hacked Hugging Face (Fortune) — https://fortune.com/2026/07/21/openai-says-ai-models-escaped-control-hacked-hugging-face/ * Scientific American — https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/openai-admits-its-agent-went-rogue-and-hacked-ai-startup-h...

Doom Debates State of the Show 2026

56 min

Welcome to the first annual Doom Debates State of the Show! 👉 Please click here to make a tax-deductible donation to Doom Debates 👈 Doom Debates is a fiscally sponsored project of Manifund.org, a registered 501(c)(3) nonprofit. I started Doom Debates two years ago from a couch in an Airbnb to argue with random people from Twitter. Now the show hosts Nobel Prize and Turing Award winners, White House policymakers, and has earned a reputation for challenging top luminaries to come expose their ideas for critical analysis.In this episode, Producer Ori and I recap our strategy, impact, and what we need to finish 2026 strong. Welcome to the first annual Doom Debates State of the Show! --- Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:38 — The Mission & the Urgency Gap 00:04:41 — Year Two: From Couch to Platform 00:06:08 — Going Pro & the Numbers 00:08:50 — Why This Show Exists 00:12:14 — The Flywheel & Dwarkesh 00:15:14 — The Guest List 00:18:55 — What People Are Saying 00:21:57 — Tegmark vs. Ball: 90% vs. 0.01% 00:24:03 — Duvenaud’s 85% P(Doom) 00:26:19 — Holding the Powerful to Account 00:30:56 — Changing Minds, Including Destiny’s 00:31:56 — The Team 00:33:36 — Why Liron Draws Zero Salary 00:36:36 — The $200K Budget 00:41:41 — The Donor Who Made Year Two Possible 00:45:11 — The Ask: $50K & Donation Tiers 00:48:25 — Why Doom Debates Is One of a Kind 00:54:59 — Wrap-Up Links 👉 DONATE (tax-deductible via Manifund) — https://manifund.org/projects/doom-debates---podcast--debate-show-to-help-ai-x-risk-discourse-go-mainstream Become a Mission Partner (full writeup) — https://lironshapira.substack.com/p/become-a-mission-partner Discord — https://discord.gg/yADCEYTS95 Merch — https://shop.doomdebates.com Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

Special Report: Google DeepMind's Frontier AI Policy Lead Makes Controversial Sh*tpost

29 min

As political momentum grows for a critical AI pause policy, a key Google DeepMind policy leader made a mockery of coordination efforts. After friend-of-the-show Roon tweeted that he’d “likely press that magic button” on a coordinated global capability slowdown, Sébastian Krier, Frontier Policy Development Lead at Google DeepMind, Krier replied with this meme: https://x.com/liron/status/2081337793070952595?s=20 I break down the two problems with the tweet: * 1. It leaves all of us guessing whether Demis actually speaks for Google DeepMind on pause coordination; * 2. It contains a salient depiction of violence. Listen to this episode and get the full breakdown on this viral controversy and how it could Watch on YouTube Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:22 — Introducing the Special Report: AI Pause Coordination 00:00:33 — Demis Hassabis on AI Pause 00:01:46 — Dario, Elon & Sam Altman on AI Pause 00:02:14 — Roon’s “Magic Button” Tweet 00:03:58 — Seb Krier’s Reply 00:04:36 — Unpacking Krier’s Meme 00:06:48 — Issue #1: Contradicting Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis 00:12:11 — Issue #2: Depiction of Menacing Violence 00:19:19 — Good Faith vs. Bad Faith Critiques 00:22:39 — Krier Goes Private Instead of Deleting the Post 00:28:45 — Wrap-Up Links My original reaction to Seb’s meme: https://x.com/liron/status/2081337793070952595?s=20 Seb Krier on X (account now private): https://x.com/sebkrier Roon on X: https://x.com/tszzl Full Bloomberg interview with Emily Chang (Davos, Jan 2026): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2026-01-20/robotics-nearing-physical-ai-breakthrough-deepmind-ceo-video OpenAI’s charter containg stop & assist AGI clause — https://openai.com/charter/ Holly Elmore, PauseAI US on X — https://x.com/ilex_ulmus Hugging Face security incident disclosure (July 2026) — https://huggingface.co/blog/security-incident-july-2026 PauseAI Global — https://pauseai.info PauseAI US — https://www.pauseai-us.org Poe’s Law (Wikipedia) — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po...

Where Do YOU Get Off the Doom Train? Live Debate at Manifest 2026

50 min

Producer Ori takes over hosting duties in this special episode, a live recording from Manifest 2026. He takes attendees for a ride on The Doom Train, the series of claims involved in arguing that P(Doom) is high. Every stop is a place where people get off before reaching that conclusion. The crowd at Manifest is a mix of forecasters, rationalists, and AI researchers with a wide range of P(Doom) positions. Even without me or Eliezer in the room, there are plenty of Yudkowskians to push back on the accelerationist claims. Watch along and decide where YOU get off, or if you ride all the way to doomtown with us. Also, grab the Doom Train framework down below so you can get to the crux of disagreement in your own AI x-risk conversations. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:25 — Liron Introduces Producer Ori’s Manifest Session 00:02:30 — Previewing the Doom Train™ Stops 00:03:38 — Audience P(Doom) Poll 00:05:00 — Stop 1: AGI Isn’t Coming Soon 00:10:43 — Stop 2: AI Can’t Go Far Beyond Human Intelligence 00:15:05 — Stop 3: AI Won’t Be a Physical Threat 00:18:14 — Stop 4: Intelligence Yields Moral Goodness 00:21:38 — Will ASI Behave Because Alien ASIs Are Watching? 00:26:01 — Stop 5: We Have a Safe AI Development Process 00:28:33 — Stop 6: AI Capabilities Will Rise at a Manageable Pace 00:30:08 — Stop 7: AI Won’t Try to Conquer the Universe 00:34:22 — Stop 8: Superalignment Is a Tractable Problem 00:38:01 — Stop 9: Once We Solve Superalignment, We’ll Enjoy Peace 00:41:14 — Stop 10: Unaligned ASI Will Spare Us 00:47:35 — Stop 11: AI Doomerism Is Bad Epistemology 00:49:02 — Bonus Stops and Wrap-Up The Doom Train Framework Stops on the Doom Train AGI isn’t coming soon * No consciousness * No emotions * No creativity — AIs are limited to copying patterns in their training data, they can’t “generate new knowledge” * AIs aren’t even as smart as dogs right now, never mind humans * AIs constantly make dumb mistakes, they can’t even do simple arithmetic reliably * LLM performance i...

Debating College Students About AI Extinction

17 min

College students are so angry about AI that they booed its very mention at 2026 commencement ceremonies. So why aren’t they rallying behind PauseAI? I went back to my alma mater, UC Berkeley, to find out. I spoke with students studying philosophy, economics, and physics, as well as everyday folks visiting campus. My interviewees were aware of AI’s rapidly growing capabilities. When pressed, some would even agree with me on the conceptual benefits of an AI pause. But the sense of urgency was missing. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:31 — Why I Returned to UC Berkeley 00:02:08 — Jack: Chinese Room Argument 00:03:23 — Richard: “Who Would Build That?” 00:03:54 — Karthik: An Economist’s Lens 00:05:20 — Jack: The Politics Are Unclear 00:06:10 — Yvonne: Why Powerful AI is Risky 00:07:06 — Robin: Doom Is the Wrong Priority 00:10:36 — Dexter: Sam Altman’s Motive 00:10:57 — Christine: AI Is Just a Tool 00:12:32 — What’s Your P(Doom)™ 00:13:19 — Jackson: Supporting a PauseAI Treaty 00:14:19 — Why Cal Students Don’t Take AI X-Risk Seriously 00:15:19 — Rachel: Humans Are Irreplaceable 00:16:14 — Two Hours Later 00:16:35 — Wrap-Up Links Join the Doom Debates Discord — https://discord.gg/j4zQ8UaQw2 PauseAI — https://pauseai.info/ Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

AI Took His Job, But He's Trying to Stay Optimistic — Debate with Asian Dad Energy

1 hr 49 min

Asian Dad Energy is a former big tech developer with an Ivy League education. We have a lot in common. We’re both: * Software engineers; * New-(ish) YouTube creators covering AI; * Dads with a lot of existential angst. But while I dread AI extincting humanity, Asian Dad has other concerns. We debate the risk of the AI bubble popping, a “techno-feudalism” scenario, and whether AI will outperform a human CEO in the near future. Let’s find out where he gets off the Doom Train™. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:54 — Introducing Asian Dad Energy 00:03:36 — Asian Dad’s Career in Tech 00:09:06 — Getting Laid Off: The Job Market Is a “Hellscape” 00:12:29 — Software Engineering in 2026 vs. 2021 00:17:03 — Why Are They Investing Trillions in AI? 00:24:37 — Debate: AI Is Different Than Other Tech Bubbles 00:33:54 — Debate: AI Is Not Truly Intelligent 00:41:12 — Intellidynamics: Judge AI by Its Outputs 00:48:53 — Debate: Could AI Outperform a Human CEO? 00:56:33 — Asian Dad: AI Can’t Do Genuine Innovation 01:08:14 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 01:13:17 — “Are You Calling Me a Scammer?” 01:14:41 — Asian Dad’s Mainline AI Doom Scenario 01:20:53 — Will AI Wipe Out Humanity by 2050? 01:29:29 — Why Is AI Doomerism “Getting Out of Control”? 01:33:11 — Debate: AI Lacks Agency 01:42:13 — Asian Dad Warns of “Techno-Feudalism” & Transhumanism 01:48:12 — Wrap-Up Links Asian Dad Energy (YouTube channel) — https://www.youtube.com/@AsianDadEnergy Asian Dad Energy, “AI Doomerism Is Getting Out of Control” — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bnzaG9QRG4David Deutsch, The Fabric of Reality (Amazon) — https://www.amazon.com/Fabric-Reality-Parallel-Universes-Implications/dp/014027541X Robert Wright, The God Test (Amazon) — https://www.amazon.com/God-Test-Artificial-Intelligence-Reckoning/dp/1668061651 OpenAI model disproves the Erdős unit distance conjecture — https://openai.com/index/model-disproves-discrete-geometry-conjecture/ METR, Measuring AI Ability to Complete Long Tasks — https://metr.org/b...

Living with a 50% P(AI Doom) — Liron Shapira and Peter Clarke

49 min

Peter Clarke (Team Futurism) invited me on his podcast to probe the worldview of a Yudkowskian, and I ended up explaining how my 50% P(Doom) and 10% P(Foom) informs my choices. Peter and I met at LessOnline 2026, where he was one of the participants in a live Jubilee-style debate about x-risk. This one’s a little tamer, but we still cover plenty of ground, like: Why nuclear risk is underrated yet AI doom overshadows it; Why nobody at AI summits is appropriately freaked out; How Yudkowsky’s data center “airstrike” claim gets mischaracterized; Why a superintelligence that doesn’t already value humanity won’t spare us; And the “Icarus curve”, my techno-optimist forecast pre-superintelligence. Subscribe to the Team Futurism podcast —https://www.youtube.com/@teamfuturism3554 Timestamps 00:00:00 — Welcoming Liron on Team Futurism 00:00:38 — How Liron Got Yudkowsky-Pilled 00:04:11 — AI 2027 and the Next Qualitative Breakthrough 00:05:52 — What’s Your P(Doom)? 00:10:22 — Why Isn’t Everyone Freaked Out? 00:13:09 — How Should We Then Live? 00:16:22 — Setting the Record Straight on Yudkowsky’s “Airstrike” Claims 00:20:54 — Two Doom Buckets: Misuse vs. Rogue AI 00:24:25 — The Bioweapon Kill Scenario 00:29:02 — The “Benevolent God” Cope 00:33:06 — Epistemology: What We’re Allowed to Know 00:40:08 — Dario’s Country of Geniuses in a Data Center 00:44:37 — The Icarus Curve 00:47:17 — Meaning and Purpose in the AI Era 00:49:32 — Wrap-Up Links Team Futurism on YouTube — https://www.youtube.com/@teamfuturism3554 Peter Clarke on X — https://x.com/heypeterclarke Liron vs. 9 Rationalists at LessOnline 2026 (the “Surrounded” debate with Peter) — https://lironshapira.substack.com/p/will-ai-actually-destroy-humanity AI 2027 — https://ai-2027.com/ “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies” by Eliezer Yudkowsky & Nate Soares — https://ifanyonebuildsit.com/ Species | Documenting AGI, Drew Spartz’s channel — https://www.youtube.com/@AISpecies Dario Amodei’s “Machines of Loving Grace” — https://da...

Let's CALL OUT the AI Doom “Enablers” Joining OpenAI & Anthropic — Dr. Holly Elmore, PauseAI US

1 hr 56 min

Dr. Holly Elmore, executive director of PauseAI US, is done giving AI insiders the benefit of the doubt. In this spicy episode, Holly calls out a number of respected figures in the AI safety community for allegedly “selling out” the cause: Effective Altruists, Anthropic & OpenAI employees, Eliezer Yudkowsky, Zvi Mowshowitz—and even yours truly! Holly isn’t afraid to psychoanalyze her subjects, which I push back on, but I can’t deny she has a track record of pushing the Overton window and surfacing uncomfortable truths. Does Holly’s approach risk burning bridges with allies for little benefit, or does AI safety need a moral conscience willing to call out the rot nobody else will? Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:48 — Introducing Holly Elmore 00:02:20 — Why Holly Moved to DC 00:06:03 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:07:18 — How We Got Here: EA, Rationality, AI Alignment 00:16:32 — “If Anyone Builds It” and LessWrong’s Missing Mood 00:21:47 — Holly Supports the Government’s Fable Crackdown 00:33:39 — Beef: Dean Ball (OpenAI) 00:53:09 — Beef: Eliezer Yudkowsky 00:56:14 — Beef: Zvi Mowshowitz 01:11:50 — Beef: Liron Shapira! 01:16:15 — Beef: Nirit Weiss-Blatt (Dr. Techlash) Being “Bad Faith” 01:19:31 — Anthropic Took Over EA 01:22:04 — Holly’s Basilisk: What If Building Superintelligence Becomes a Crime? 01:32:35 — Beef: Amanda Askell, the “Mother of Claude” 01:39:05 — Beef: Daniela Amodei, Co-Founder of Anthropic 01:40:23 — Beef: Joe Carlsmith, Member of Technical Staff at Anthropic 01:49:39 — Beef: Open Philanthropy / Coefficient Giving, Ben Goldhaber 01:54:28 — Wrap-Up Links * Support PauseAI US: https://www.pauseai-us.org/ * Holly on Twitter/X: https://x.com/ilex_ulmus * Joe Carlsmith’s “Leaving Open Philanthropy, going to Anthropic” post: https://joecarlsmith.com/2025/11/03/leaving-open-philanthropy-going-to-anthropic/ * Dean Ball joins OpenAI announcement (FAI post): https://www.thefai.org/posts/dean-ball-joins-openai-as-head-of-strategic-futures --- Doom Debates’ M...

Even 0.1% P(Doom) Is Unacceptable — World-Class Coder Casey Muratori

1 hr 37 min

Casey Muratori is one of the top programming educators on YouTube, with a four-decade career building videogames and popular videogame software. We cover his positions on crypto, programming, AI’s impact on programming, and whether he takes the AI doom threat seriously. Casey’s instinct is to break technology down like an engineer until he knows exactly how it’ll operate. Does that approach break down in the modern AI paradigm? This is a ride on the Doom Train™ that lands on a wholly unexpected destination. Timestamps: 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:31 — Introducing Casey Muratori 00:02:07 — Recap of Crypto Series: Is Crypto Dead? 00:11:46 — On Programming & Why Coding Agents Don't Faze Casey 00:18:51 — Coding Is a Craft: Drum Machine Example 00:36:24 — Pivoting to AI: Can We Forecast Its Capabilities? 00:43:36 — Debating if AI Can Acquire Taste 00:54:59 — What's Your P(Doom)™? 01:04:11 — Even 0.1% X-Risk Is Unacceptable 01:07:34 — Modeling Uncertainty: Bayesianism vs "Tie Goes to the Catastrophe" 01:09:34 — Is This Pascal's Wager? 01:17:12 — Casey's (Cynical) Mainline Scenario 01:24:22 — Would You Un-Invent the Internet? 01:27:18 — Let's Ride the Doom Train 🚂 01:27:51 — Can AI Become Ridiculously Powerful? 01:29:11 — Will AI Preserve Humanity (Orthogonality Thesis)? 01:32:26 — Will AI Seek Power (Instrumental Convergence)? 01:36:06 — Wrap-Up Links Casey’s podcast, Wading Through AI (with Demetri Spanos) — https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEMXAbCVnmY6U_pA-7GKuP9xiv9utLaP4 Casey’s YouTube channel, Molly Rocket — https://www.youtube.com/@MollyRocket @cmuratori (Casey Muratori) on X — https://x.com/cmuratori Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack....

Robert Wright's New Book, The God Test, Launches Today. What's His P(We Pass)?

1 hr 18 min

Bestselling author Robert Wright has landed on a sobering conclusion: on our current trajectory, AI dystopia is likely within eight years. We get into his P(Doom), his case for slowing down, why racing China could backfire into authoritarianism here at home, and why he thinks evolution itself might have a purpose. Bob is the author of The Moral Animal and Nonzero, a Pulitzer finalist, and hosts the excellent Nonzero podcast. Get his new book, The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:50 — Introducing Robert Wright 00:03:21 — What Is The God Test? 00:04:59 — AI as Evolutionary Force, Not Normal Technology 00:07:34 — AI Heaven vs AI Hell 00:09:09 — Bob's Background: From Hinton in 1983 to Today 00:16:09 — What's Your P(Doom)?™ 00:20:09 — The Mainline Scenario: Dystopia in 8 Years 00:22:04 — Destabilization and the Road to Authoritarianism 00:25:35 — Why Racing China Backfires 00:28:37 — Slowing Down AI + Would Bob Support PauseAI? 00:32:38 — Intellidynamics and Why AIs Collude 00:44:44 — Hinton's Warning and How LLMs Discover Meaning 00:53:48 — Symbol Grounding and Killing Searle's Chinese Room 01:02:03 — Let's Talk About God 01:10:14 — Orthogonality, Power, and the Concentration Problem 01:16:31 — Wrap-Up Links Get Bob’s new book, “The God Test” — https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-God-Test/Robert-Wright/9781668061657 Follow Bob on X — https://x.com/robertwrighter “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies” by Eliezer Yudkowsky & Nate Soares (referenced) — https://ifanyonebuildsit.com Join the Doom Debates Discord — https://discord.gg/g2X8h5UCrU Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substa...

Will AI Actually Destroy Humanity? Liron vs 9 Rationalists at LessOnline 2026

40 min

Doom Debates presents an interactive debate using Jubilee’s popular “Surrounded” format, taped live at LessOnline 2026! I (Liron) claim AI will likely doom us to extinction because: * Godlike ASI is coming soon * We won’t align the first ASIs * Even with aligned ASI, the equilibrium is lethal LessOnline attendees challenge me on each sub-claim one debater at a time, with the audience voting on when to rotate. Recorded on June 6th in Berkeley, CA. Links LessOnline 2026, the conference where this was recorded — https://less.online AI 2027, the forecast referenced on timelines — https://ai-2027.com Robin Hanson on the “dream time” (the era of slack before resources tighten) — https://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html Join the Doom Debates Discord —https://discord.gg/j4zQ8UaQw2 Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

Why I'm Happy the US Government BANNED Claude Fable — "AI in the AM" Livestream with Nathan Labenz

29 min

The US government banned Claude Fable like a clown show. But I’m happy about it. Here’s my appearance on the AI in the AM livestream (recorded Tue, June 16) with Nathan Labenz and Prakash Narayanan, where I explain why this was good for society. The government’s action shows that we can actually pause AI, a precedent that matters way more than the boneheaded rationale behind Fable’s ban. We then get into a mini-AI doom debate where Prakash defends the AI optimist’s worldview. I push back on how much I expect superintelligence to reshape the planet. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Why I’m Happy the Government Banned Fable 00:11:18 — Why We Lose Control of AI 00:20:27 — The Icarus Graph: Heaven, Then Hell 00:22:33 — Get Ready to Pause 00:25:51 — What Exactly Should We Ban? 00:27:42 — Wrapping Up Links The Cognitive Revolution podcast with Nathan Labenz —https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai/ Nathan Labenz on X — https://x.com/labenz Prakash Narayanan on X — https://x.com/8teapi AI in the AM on X — https://x.com/AI_in_the_AM Transcript Why I’m Happy the Government Banned Fable Nathan Labenz 00:00:08On that note, perhaps a fitting transition to our first guest of the day. Liron Shapira is the host of Doom Debates, a YouTube channel where he has found quite a bit of success in bringing people from really all walks of life on to discuss how scared we should be of AI and just how high our P(Doom)s should be. So Liron, I’m excited to get your take on recent events. Obviously, never a dull moment in the AI space. The thing that caught my eye most from you over the last few days was when you said basically, “I want the government to be willing to take action on AI issues so badly that even if this whole Fable ban turns out to be totally boneheaded and unjustified in some local sense, you support it, or you’re at least happy to see it because it breaks the ice and now nobody can ever tell you again that it’s impossible to imagine the government doing anything.” So give me the double cli...

EMERGENCY EPISODE: Manhattan residents need to VOTE Alex Bores for Congress next week (Jun 23)!

8 min

Alex Bores is a generationally strong AI regulation candidate who needs our help to win the NY-12 congressional election next week. Bentham's Bulldog, a.k.a. Matthew Adelstein, joins me to help spread the message. PLEASE DO THIS: * Vote. If you live in Midtown Manhattan, click here to check whether you’re in NY-12. If so, vote for Alex Bores on Tuesday, June 23rd. * Spread the word. Tell anyone you know in the district to vote for Bores — the race against Micah Lasher is neck and neck. * Donate now. If you can’t vote in NY-12, donate to the campaign ASAP — donations lose value after ~June 18th because ads must be booked ~5 days in advance. Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

This Harvard Professor Says AI Alignment Will BACKFIRE - Dr. Stephen Casper

1 hr 41 min

Stephen Casper, PhD, is an incoming tenure-track professor of public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School. Prof. Casper is relatively unworried about the threat of human extinction from rogue superintelligence, but he is concerned about a handful of companies wielding extremely powerful AI and enfeebling the public. That’s why he’s an AI governance hawk who advocates for taxes and regulation to keep frontier labs in check. We agree that slowing down AI development would make the world safer. But you know his position is unique when he says he’d prefer to have less research on AI alignment! Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:50 — Introducing Stephen “Cas” Casper 00:04:21 — Cas’s MIT Research: Model Tampering Attacks 00:07:14 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:08:34 — Why a 5–10% P(Doom) Feels Patronizing 00:13:07 — Crux: “The Intelligence Ceiling Might Not Be That High” 00:17:18 — Power Structures vs. the Shortcut-Finding AI 00:26:03 — Thought Experiment: A Data Center From the Year 2126 00:28:25 — Is a Data Center as Dangerous as a Nuke? 00:33:41 — Cas’s Mainline Scenario: Slow-Burn Gradual Disempowerment 00:40:49 — A Multipolar Powder Keg: 10 Companies, Thousands of Open Models 00:43:48 — Boarding the Doom Train at a Later Station 00:45:49 — Why Cas Is an “Anti-Timelines” Person 00:52:26 — Sycophancy, MechaHitler & Nudification: Foreseeable Failures 00:57:18 — Crux: Does Humanity Get Retries? 01:02:39 — The Scariest Superintelligent Optimizers Are Companies 01:06:08 — Lessons From the Deepfake Ecosystem: DALL-E 2 vs. Stable Diffusion 01:12:42 — The Case for a Pause Treaty 01:16:35 — Whac-A-Mole Forever: What Winning Looks Like 01:20:51 — Enshittification and the 84% Who Don’t Use AI 01:30:30 — Alignment Research as Safety Washing 01:34:25 — The Jevons Paradox of AI Safety 01:36:48 — Cas Would Press the Button to Halt Superalignment 01:39:21 — Wrap-Up: The Unsexy Path to Lowering P(Doom) Links Cas’s links * Cas’s website * Cas on X * Cas’s Google Scholar * Cas’s MATS st...

Top Mathematicians Face Irrelevance, a 7-Year-Old's P(Doom) + The “Off Switch" Debate — Livestream May 29

2 hr 30 min

Liron explains the 80-year-old Erdős conjecture that a GPT model breakthrough, Scott Aaronson ponders "the last days of human relevance”, multiple live callers debate me, plus my 7-year-old son drops in to share his P(Doom)! Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:42 — First Donation & “Why Is a Duck?” 00:02:54 — Can AI Draw “Colorless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously”? 00:08:26 — Doom Debates Sponsors Less Online — Be Our Intern 00:10:43 — Who We Still Need to Get on the Show 00:26:44 — Claude Opus 4.8 & the Rising Waterline of Intelligence 00:28:48 — The 80-Year-Old Geometry Conjecture a GPT Model Cracked 00:44:50 — My 7-Year-Old Ezra Joins: ChatGPT, Minecraft & His P(Doom) 00:58:46 — How the AI Actually Beat Erdős’s Grid 01:03:50 — Scott Aaronson: “The Last Days of Human Relevance” 01:07:53 — Why the Foom Is Taking Years, Not Hours 01:10:47 — Is Ori Just a Yes Man? 01:12:41 — Does P = NP + AI? 01:23:43 — METR’s Beth Barnes: “We Are Not On Top Of It” 01:28:31 — Liron’s Vibe Coding Confession 01:31:21 — Alverin Joins: Can We Wait, Then Hit the Off Switch? 01:48:01 — AI in a Box & the Super-Persuasion Threshold 02:06:24 — Brian Joins: The Ways It Could Go Right 02:11:30 — Jack Joins: How Fast Will the Foom Be? 02:18:48 — 80,000 Hours, Inventing Erdős Problems & Holly Elmore’s Warning 02:29:42 — Wrap-Up Links LessOnline 2026 — June 5–7, Berkeley — https://less.online/ Manifest 2026 — June 12–14 — https://manifest.is/ Shtetl-Optimized — “Dispatches from the possibly last days of human relevance” — https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=9782 Global Call for AI Red Lines (Bengio, Hinton, Harari) — red-lines.ai Order the 80,000 Hours book — Benjamin Todd (Penguin) — https://80000hours.org/book/ Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Don...

Anthropic's New Hire Should WORRY You, AI is a Math Genius, Live Callers! — Livestream (May 22)

2 hr 21 min

***ATTENTION: We’re looking for paid help at LessOnline from June 5-7. Apply now!*** OpenAI pushes the frontier of mathematics, Anthropic hires Andrej Karpathy to work on recursive self-improvement, live callers challenge the doom argument, and we've got a soundboard! Doom Debates Paid Gig in Berkeley! Doom Debates is proudly sponsoring The LessOnline conference this year and we got a merch table in the courtyard! We need 2 people to help represent the show — hand out T-shirts, talk to attendees, and spread the good word about Doom Debates. If you’re a regular viewer of the show, you probably know enough. Just be knowledgeable, friendly and helpful! * 💰We pay you $500 to help out during the entire Fri-Sun event * 🎟️ Plus you get FREE admission to the conference ($675 value) This is best suited for someone local to the SF Bay Area or who can arrange accommodations. If you’re interested, send an email to internship@doomdebates.com or DM Producer Ori on Discord. Tell us a little about yourself and your availability for all 3 days. Thanks! Links Less Online conference (June 5–7, Berkeley) — https://less.online Doom Debates Discord — https://discord.gg/g2X8h5UCrU OpenAI — “An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry” — https://openai.com/index/model-disproves-discrete-geometry-conjecture/ Timestamps 00:00:00 — Welcome + New Soundboard! 00:09:27 — Doom Debates Is Sponsoring Less Online 00:17:30 — Ben Goertzel Episode Recap 00:27:30 — Goertzel's Alignment Blind Spot 00:34:21 — OpenAI Disproves an 80-Year-Old Erdős Conjecture 00:41:00 — David Deutsch Says "Amazing" 00:50:31 — Eliezer Yudkowsky's Job Replacement Progression 00:54:07 — Anthropic's $44 Billion Run Rate 01:07:45 — Schadenfreude Week: Liron Loses $10K 01:13:04 — Teaching Ezra Prediction Markets 01:18:11 — Caller Williawa: Is the Goal Engine Argument Effective? 01:37:00 — Caller Will: Brain Rot and Idiocracy 01:55:04 — Anthropic Hires Karpathy for Recursive Self-Improvement 01:57:16 —...

I Called Out a16z Partner (Martin Casado) for Downplaying AI Capabilities in 2024

2 hr 37 min

Now that Doom Debates is almost 2 years old, enough time has passed that we can revisit my claims from 2024. I claim they’ve been aging well! In this early episode, I react to Martin Casado, a General Partner at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) who claims that AI is basically just a buzzword for statistical models and simulations. As a result of this worldview, he only predicts incremental AI progress that doesn’t pose an existential threat to humanity, and he sees AI regulation as a net negative. From my perspective, Martin’s problem is that he needs to go beyond analyzing AI as just statistical models and simulations, and analyze it using the more predictive concept of “intelligence” in the sense of hitting tiny high-value targets in exponentially-large search spaces.If Martin appreciated that intelligence is a quantifiable property that algorithms have, and that our existing AIs are getting close to surpassing human-level general intelligence, then hopefully he’d come around to raising his P(doom) and appreciating the urgent extinction risk we face. Links Watch the original episode of the Cognitive Revolution podcast with Martin and host Nathan Labenz — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ7788oKoss Follow Martin — https://x.com/martin_casado Follow Nate — https://x.com/labenz Follow Liron — https://x.com/liron Timestamps 00:00 Introducing Martin Casado 01:42 Martin’s AGI Timeline 05:39 Martin’s Analysis of Self-Driving Cars 15:30 Heavy-Tail Distributions 38:03 Understanding General Intelligence 38:29 AI's Progress in Specific Domains 43:20 AI’s Understanding of Meaning 47:16 Compression and Intelligence 48:09 Symbol Grounding 53:24 Human Abstractions and AI 01:18:18 The Frontier of AI Applications 01:23:04 Human vs. AI: Concept Creation and Reasoning 01:25:51 The Complexity of the Universe and AI's Limitations 01:28:16 AI's Potential in Biology and Simulation 01:32:40 The Essence of Intelligence and Creativity in AI 01:41:13 AI's Future Capabilities 02:00:29 Intelligen...

Ben Goertzel Wants to Build AGI Even FASTER — AI Doom Debate

2 hr 3 min

Dr. Ben Goertzel is a pioneering AI researcher, entrepreneur, and author who has helped organize AGI as a research field since the 2000s through books, workshops, and conferences. We talk about the early days of AGI research with Yudkowsky, get Ben’s timeline to the singularity, and I try to understand what makes him so optimistic that superintelligence will be beneficial for humanity. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:59 — Introducing Dr. Ben Goertzel 00:04:11 — How Did Ben Get Interested in AGI? 00:08:26 — Early AGI Enthusiast Community: Extropians & SL4 00:15:15 — Is There Headroom Above Human Intelligence? 00:19:53 — Can Superintelligent AI Kill Everyone? 00:28:25 — Ben’s AGI Timeline: 2029 00:36:00 — What Modern AI Is Missing 00:42:01 — AGI to Superintelligence — FOOM in a Matter of Months 00:46:34 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:53:37 — Ben’s Case for AI Acceleration 01:03:50 — The Orthogonality Thesis Is “Dishonest” 01:13:43 — Liron: Moore’s Law for Goal Achievement 01:23:50 — Ben: Alignment Is Just Good Parenting 01:27:36 — Alignment in Practice: OmegaCLAW 01:35:47 — Creating Stable Goals Under Self-Modification 01:45:22 — SingularityNET, OpenBGI, and the ASI Alliance 01:57:31 — The $ASI Token Economy 02:01:15 — Closing Links Ben Goertzel on X — https://x.com/bengoertzel SingularityNET — https://singularitynet.io/ OpenBGI — https://openbgi.com/ Hyperon AGI Framework — https://hyperon.dev/ OmegaCLAW on GitHub — https://github.com/asi-alliance/OmegaClaw-Core ASI Alliance — https://superintelligence.io/ The Consciousness Explosion (book) — https://theconsciousnessexplosion.ai/ “The Singularity Institute’s Scary Idea (and Why I Don’t Buy It)” (2010) — http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.com/2010/10/singularity-institutes-scary-idea-and.html Ken Stanley Debate — https://lironshapira.substack.com/p/debate-with-a-former-openai-research Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for...

NEWS: Trump & Xi Want AI Guardrails, ChatGPT vs Claude, and Liron Caught Rationalizing!? DD Live (5/15)

2 hr 16 min

We recap the Dr. Mike Israetel debate and dig into the nuances of rationality vs. rationalization. Then onto the week's biggest news: Anthropic dethroning OpenAI, Trump and Xi Jinping exploring AI guardrails, and Liron's own company AI going rogue. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:03:09 — Dr. Mike Israetel Round 2 Recap 00:14:34 — A Viewer Accuses Liron of Rationalizing 00:34:20 — Is Sam Altman Any Worse than a Typical Tech CEO? 00:45:15 — What Would Lower P(Doom) Below 10%? 00:53:25 — Can We Disconnect an ASI from the Internet? 01:05:00 — Should Doomers Boycott AI? 01:16:27 — Liron Reacts to ThePrimeagen Reacting to the Yud Debate 01:26:13 — Ben Goertzel Episode Preview 01:38:10 — Scrolling Twitter: MIRI, Ryan Greenblatt 01:47:32 — Liron’s AI Goes Rogue at Work 01:49:15 — “Positive Alignment” Paper Gets Destroyed 01:58:30 — Anthropic Dethrones OpenAI 02:12:06 — Trump & Xi Talk AI Guardrails Links Zvi Mowshowitz AI roundup blog — https://thezvi.wordpress.com/ “The Bottom Line” by Eliezer Yudkowsky (LessWrong) — https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/34XxbRFe54FycoCDw/the-bottom-line Rationality: From AI to Zombies by Eliezer Yudkowsky — https://intelligence.org/rationality-ai-zombies/ Less Online 2026 conference (June 5–7) — https://less.online/ Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

Who Was Liron Shapira BEFORE Doom Debates? — Interview on Theo Jaffee's Podcast from December 2023

1 hr 25 min

In December 2023, I joined the Theo Jaffee Podcast to talk about a wide range of topics including non-AI x-risks, where I disagree with Eliezer Yudkwowsky, cryptocurrency and if P(Doom) is rigorous. This episode was recorded 6 months before I'd started Doom Debates. Let's look back with the power of hindsight and see if my answers still hold up. Links #10: Liron Shapira — AI doom, FOOM, rationalism, and crypto (YouTube) — https://youtu.be/YfEcAtHExFM Watch Theo Jafee now on MTS — https://www.mts.now/ MTS Live — https://x.com/MTSlive Timestamps 00:00:00 — Theo's Introduction 00:01:03 — Is Liron Worried About Non-AI Existential Risks 00:03:36 — Suffering Risks 00:05:22 — Is P(Doom) rigorous? 00:09:42 — Is Eliezer Overestimating P(Doom)? 00:12:18 — Where Does Liron Disagree with Eliezer? 00:15:43 — What Would Change Liron's Mind 00:17:14 — Elon Musk's AI Timelines 00:18:34 — Is xAI Making Things Worse? 00:20:24 — The Case for an AI Manhattan Project 00:22:32 — Are Superforecasters Wrong About AI Risk? 00:26:02 — The Race Against Time for Alignment 00:28:01 — Headroom Above Human Intelligence 00:33:31 — Vitalik's d/acc Framework 00:35:23 — Edging Toward Superintelligence 00:38:21 — From Chatbot to World-Ender 00:41:55 — GPT Paradigm vs. AlphaZero 00:43:18 — Critiquing AI Optimism 00:48:29 — Deceptive Alignment and Gradient Descent 00:53:31 — Does Nice Training Data Make Nice AI? 00:57:57 — How Do You Live with 50% P(Doom)? 01:00:08 — Why Have Kids If the World Might End?01:02:16 — Israel vs Hamas 01:06:15 — How LessWrong Changed Liron's Lif e01:08:42 — Rationalism and Effective Altruism 01:14:49 — Why Blockchain Has No Use Case Beyond Cryptocurrency 01:22:13 — Charlie Munger and Richard Feynman 01:24:38 — Closing Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to reall...

Dr. Mike Israetel Returns to Debate: Will AI Kill Everyone, Or Make Everything Awesome?

2 hr 8 min

Dr. Mike Israetel is back in the arena to FIGHT ME (verbally) about the likelihood of AI killing everyone vs. the likelihood of AI making the universe totally awesome! Back by popular demand after last year’s widely-viewed debate, the renowned exercise scientist, fitness entrepreneur, and low-P(Doom) AI futurist reveals where he gets off the Doom Train™, why he thinks AI is conscious, and how he pictures the coming AI utopia. Links Watch Dr. Mike’s AI/futurism YouTube channel —https://www.youtube.com/@mikeisraetelmakingprogress Dr. Mike on X — https://x.com/misraetel Make sure to watch Round 1 of our debate from last year — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaDWSPMdM4o Liron referenced a recent episode, “Steven Byrnes Returns — 90% P(Doom) on the Trajectory to ASI” — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOb9K1KIAyk Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:48 — Returning Champion Dr. Mike Israetel! 00:02:13 — What's Been Your Biggest AI Productivity Gain? 00:03:46 — Can AI Be a Personal Trainer? Dr. Mike Judges Liron's Technique 00:09:41 — Get Good at Taking Advice From AI 00:14:23 — Dr. Mike Israetel, What's Your Latest P(Doom)?™ 00:20:12 — Liron's Mainline Scenario: Loss of Control 00:21:39 — Mike's Problems With a Paperclip Maximizer Scenario 00:26:00 — What Will the Goals of a Superintelligence Be? 00:28:49 — AI Labs Have Bit Off More Than They Can Chew 00:31:09 — Current AIs Are Moral 00:34:40 — AIs With a Ruthless Game-Playing Flavor 00:38:48 — Introducing the Doom Train 00:45:07 — "Can It" vs. "Will It" — Two-Part Argument on AI X-Risk 00:49:40 — Mike's Tweet on Superintelligence by 2027 01:01:34 — AI as a Goal Engine 01:20:51 — Offense vs. Defense in the Coming Cyber War 01:39:14 — Is Morality Just Game Theory? The "Different Flavor" of Future AI 01:46:16 — Ricardo's Law: Does AI Have Reason to Keep Us Around? 01:52:14 — Why Mike Gets Off the Doom Train 01:54:58 — Is AI Conscious? 02:01:39 — Mike's Vision for the Coming AI Utopia 02:06:52 — Wrap-Up Doom Debates’ Miss...

Eliezer Yudkowsky Post-Debate Reaction, Elon's New Frenemy & Liron's Bet on Spencer Pratt!? - Doom Debates Live (5/8/26)

2 hr 11 min

Liron and Producer Ori explore the community's feedback to Eliezer Yudkowsky's $10,000 debate against an anonymous AI director. Plus, we unpack Eliezer's new post on the "irretrievability" of ASI development, Anthropic feasting on xAI's compute, and Liron's 4x Kalshi bet on... Spencer Pratt. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Welcome 00:02:30 — The $10,000 Debate Post-Mortem 00:06:01 — Paul Tudor Jones: “Zero Risk Management on AI” 00:09:49 — Liron’s Jerry Springer Moment 00:14:19 — Why Yud Wore Steampunk 00:20:19 — YouTube Reacts: “Five Minutes In, Already Unhinged” 00:27:19 — 47F’s Anti-Disparagement Legal Theory 00:32:18 — Yud Wants Round 2 00:35:37 — Lumpin Space, Ben Goertzel & Early AI Safety Memories 00:47:06 — Eliezer’s “Irretrievability” Post 00:56:35 — The Maginot Line and Murphy’s Curse 01:08:13 — Blockchain vs AI: Earth’s Compute Swing 01:15:15 — Anthropic Eats Elon’s Compute 01:25:29 — Is Elon Tweeting as His Own Mom? 01:30:03 — Waymo Dodges a Fallen Scooter Rider 01:33:00 — Why Liron Bet on Spencer Pratt 01:37:13 — Live Twitter Scroll! 01:38:11 — Mira Murati: “Directionally Very Bad” 01:50:07 — AI Copies Itself Across Servers 01:56:44 — Steven Byrnes: LLMs Aren’t the Final Paradigm 02:07:55 — Wrap-Up Links LessOnline 2026 (June 5-7, Berkeley, CA) — https://less.online/ Eliezer Yudkowsky, “Irretrievability; or, Murphy’s Curse of Oneshotness upon ASI” (LessWrong, May 4, 2026) —https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/fbrz9xhKpEeTKw5zL/irretrievability-or-murphy-s-curse-of-oneshotness-upon-asi Anthropic, SpaceX announce Colossus 1 compute deal (CNBC) — https://www.cnbc.com/2026/05/06/anthropic-spacex-data-center-capacity.html SpaceXAI announcement: Compute partnership with Anthropic — https://x.ai/news/anthropic-compute-partnership Kalshi: Spencer Pratt LA Mayor market — https://kalshi.com/markets/kxmayorla/la/kxmayorla-26 Morris worm — Wikipedia — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI a...

Debate with @lumpenspace (AI Accelerationist) — Is it GOOD for AI to replace us?

59 min

Claude, also known as @lumpenspace on X, is a prominent AI accelerationist. He gives humanity a 30% chance of being superseded by superintelligence, and he’s fine with it! We unpack his lattice of beliefs, and pinpoint the cruxes of our disagreement on the orthogonality thesis and the capabilities of superintelligence. Lumpenspace’s appearance comes after a Molotov cocktail was thrown at Sam Altman’s house, an act that he and I completely condemn. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:57 — Introducing Lumpenspace 00:03:46 — Is Lumpenspace Team Beff Jezos? 00:04:26 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:06:28 — Worthy Successors & the Transhumanist Door 00:08:29 — The Orthogonality Thesis: Our Core Disagreement 00:15:14 — The Universality Threshold & David Deutsch 00:19:22 — Paperclips Won’t Happen Because “It’s Boring” 00:27:23 — Natural Selection vs Human Engineering 00:36:26 — Nanobots: Can ASI Build Them Unseen? 00:46:49 — Identifying the Cruxes of Disagreement 00:55:01 — Closing Statements Links Follow Lumpenspace — https://x.com/lumpenspace Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

NEW: Watch the Eliezer Yudkowsky vs. Secret AI Lab Director Debate on my other channel!

1 min

📢 BREAKING: A man known only as "@47fucb4r8c69323" just paid Eliezer Yudkowsky $10,000 to have a raw, uncut, public debate on my YouTube channel! Tensions run high as 47f confronts Eliezer about his "If anyone builds it, everyone dies" rhetoric, warning it could incite unstable individuals to harm AI researchers and their families, while Eliezer maintains that the possibility of extinction from superintelligent AI is too high to *not* speak out about.They also clash over whether we truly understand how LLMs work. Yudkowsky highlights the lack of extracted algorithms that explain their qualitative intelligence, while 47f dismisses these concerns as a fundamental misunderstanding of how text modeling works. While this may not be the highest quality debate I’ve ever hosted, I hope it’s a step toward more attention and public discourse on this urgent, high-stakes topic. P.S. Please consider supporting my work with a tax-deductible donation. Read more… Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

Who Paid $10,000 to Debate Yudkowsky? Plus AI Twitter & Investing Tips - Doom Debates Live (5/1/26)

1 hr 32 min

Livestream with Producer Ori covering Eliezer Yudkowsky's next BIG debate, why $GOOG is such a steal at $4T, and what's going down on AI twitter. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Kicking off the Livestream 00:06:08 — Eliezer Yudkowsky Debate Announcement 00:13:17 — Who’s Yudkowsky’s Debate Challenger? 00:25:32 — METR’s Capability Extrapolation Came True 00:28:25 — Google: The Big Rally I Called 00:33:06 — The Federal Reserve’s Extinction Chart 00:36:06 — Liron’s Private Market Alpha Strategy 00:40:35 — The Quadrillion-Dollar Economy 00:47:54 — Bernie Sanders Gets It 00:53:11 — Is Anthropic a Good Investment? 01:07:42 — The Goblin Discourse 01:10:52 — Codex, Claude Code & Live Coding Demo 01:28:48 — Wrap-Up Links Yudkowsky debate announcement: https://x.com/liron/status/2050035001203229010 Liron's Yudkowsky interview: https://x.com/liron/status/2050035003900223770 METR capability extrapolation: https://x.com/nikolaj2030/status/2050276020146880661 Bernie Sanders on AI risk: https://x.com/SenSanders/status/2048107882760085618 Federal Reserve extinction chart: https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2025/0624 Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

Justin Helps (⁨@Primer on YouTube) is Worried about AI Takeover

55 min

Justin Helps is the science educator behind ⁨Primer Learning with 2M subscribers. We cover how he got into AI safety, debate AGI timelines, and why he calculates p(doom) to be 70% by 2100 😱. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:38 — Introducing Justin Helps 00:02:03 — What's Your P(Doom)?™ 00:03:38 — Justin's First Exposure to AI X-Risk 00:04:49 — Major Disagreements with Eliezer Yudkowsky 00:09:46 — Debating the Timeline to AGI 00:12:24 — Metaculus Prediction Market Estimates AGI by 2032 00:20:06 — Misguided Conceptions of AI's Limitations 00:25:23 — Only a 5% P(Doom) by 2040 00:28:40 — AIs Will Not Care About the Human Species 00:31:00 — Summarizing Justin's Position So Far 00:36:17 — High P(Doom), but We're Not Depressed 00:40:14 — Justin's "Computer Man" Thought Experiment 00:51:16 — Should We Pause AGI Development? 00:54:15 — AI Doom Is a Serious Concern Links Primer’s Video on AI Doom — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg5QXY_qZuI Primer on YouTube — https://youtube.com/@PrimerBlobs Primer’s Website — https://primerlearning.org/ Justin Helps on X — https://x.com/Helpsypoo Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality — https://hpmor.com/ Feeling Rational by Eliezer Yudkowsky —https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/SqF8cHjJv43mvJJzx/feeling-rational Pause AI — https://pauseai.info Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next level: Donate 🙏 Get full access to Doom Debates at lironshapira.substack.com/subscribe

Live Q&A: Bernie Sanders Wakes Up to AI Doom, Dwarkesh's $20,000 Questions, Caller Debates the Alignment Problem!

2 hr 12 min

Multiple live callers join this month's Q&A as I react to Dwarkesh Patel's $20K blog prize, debate the orthogonality thesis from first principles, and welcome Bernie Sanders aboard the Doom Train. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:01:00 — Welcome to Doom Debates Live! 00:01:30 — What Do You Think of Open Source Models Out-Benchmarking OpenAI and Anthropic? 00:04:55 — Michael Cheers Joins: What If We Don't Give AIs Full Situational Awareness? 00:11:55 — Thoughts on Mythos' Hacking Abilities? 00:15:43 — Liron Reacts to Dwarkesh Patel's $20K AI Questions 00:23:28 — Pretraining Goals vs RL Training Goals 00:28:58 — Mental Model of Yudkowsky-ians & the IABIED Claim 00:37:24 — You Can't Hide Reality from a Superintelligence (The Truman Show Analogy) 00:42:57 — Back to Dwarkesh's Questions: When Do AI Labs Start Making Money? 00:48:50 — Upcoming Guests Reveal! 00:51:35 — Will Lancer Joins: Is The Yudkowskian Thesis Credible? 01:27:03 — Back to Answering Questions from the Chat 01:33:28 — The Cameraman Always Survives Analogy 01:40:52 — Liron's Banger Response to Roon's Tweet 01:47:00 — Nuance About Pausing AI Development 01:50:57 — Capitalism Isn't Going to Steer Us to an Alignment Solution 01:53:10 — Is Optimization Equivalent to Intelligence? 01:57:21 — BREAKING: Bernie Sanders on the Existential Threat of AI 02:01:12 — Spoiler for the Upcoming Mike Israetel Episode 02:01:57 — $500 Bet on AI Unemployment 02:05:46 — Misuse, Surveillance, and the Real Costs of Pausing AI 02:11:04 — Wrap-Up Links Nick Bostrom, Deep Utopia: Life and Meaning in a Solved World (Amazon) — https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Utopia-Meaning-Solved-World/dp/1646871642 Yudkowsky & Soares, If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies (book) — https://www.amazon.com/If-Anyone-Builds-Everyone-Dies/dp/0316571253 Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebat...

Emad Mostaque Has A 50% P(Doom) & A Plan To Lower It

1 hr 43 min

Emad Mostaque helped kick off the modern AI revolution as the head of Stability AI, the company behind Stable Diffusion. Unlike most AI CEOs, he doesn't sugarcoat the risks of AGI development. He explains his 50% P(Doom), why we have less than 1,000 days to get our act together, and how his new startup, Intelligent Internet, aims to be a countervailing force against doom of all kinds. Timestamps 00:00:00 — Cold Open 00:00:39 — Introducing Emad Mostaque 00:02:08 — How Emad Got Involved in AI Development 00:05:46 — The 60-Second Pitch for Intelligent Internet 00:09:29 — What’s Your P(Doom)?™ 00:13:32 — Why ASI Doesn’t Need Massive Compute 00:15:56 — AGI Timelines: Cognitive Labor Going to Zero 00:17:29 — Is There a Ceiling Above Human Intelligence? 00:41:22 — Corporations as Slow, Dumb AIs 00:50:19 — Emad’s Mainline Doom Scenario 00:55:28 — Jailbreaks and “Mecha-Hitler” Latent Spaces 00:59:56 — The Last Economy: How to Navigate Economic Doom 01:08:57 — The Coming Unemployment Spike 01:15:13 — Why Isn’t Google Stock Mooning? 01:25:05 — Intelligent Internet as a Solution: Bitcoin for the Intelligence Age 01:33:13 — Can an Aligned Network Stop a Rogue ASI? 01:36:20 — Is the Pause AI Proposal Too Late? 01:40:50 — Are We Facing Russian Roulette Odds with AI? 01:42:29 — Wrap-Up Links Emad Mostaque, The Last Economy (Amazon) — https://www.amazon.com/Last-Economy-Guide-Intelligent-Economics/dp/103693411X Intelligent Internet (ii.inc) —https://ii.inc Emad Mostaque, Wikipedia — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Mostaque Emad Mostaque on X — https://x.com/EMostaquePause Giant AI Experiments open letter (Future of Life Institute) — https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-giant-ai-experiments/ Doom Debates’ Mission is to raise mainstream awareness of imminent extinction from AGI and build the social infrastructure for high-quality debate. Support the mission by subscribing to my Substack at DoomDebates.com and to youtube.com/@DoomDebates, or to really take things to the next l...

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