Bob Bauer and Jack Goldsmith discuss Bob’s recent piece, “Why the Trump Election Interference Strategy Failed.” Bob describes three factors: flawed strategy resting on a “constitutionally doomed” theory of executive power over federal elections and on tenuous noncitizen-voting claims; the courts, which repeatedly ruled against the administration, capped by the Supreme Court’s same-day denial in the California ballot-segregation case; and a decentralized election system whose officials, in red and blue states alike, carried out their work as in any other election. Bauer and Goldsmith also chat about the solicitor general’s final emergency application, and how the president’s political weakness and the polls’ forecast of decisive Democratic win decreased the viability of election denialism.
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Jack interviews Caleb Nelson, the Emerson G. Spies Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of Virginia School of Law, about his working paper, “Against the Dictatorial Presidency.” They discuss the modern history of unitary executive theory, Nelson’s criticisms of the theory in Slaughter, the relevance of the Necessary and Proper Clause, and the dangers of Slaughter, with special focus on the civil service. Goldsmith and Nelson close by discussing the Court’s unexplained Fed carve-out, with Nelson lamenting the Court’s selective willingness to consider consequences in crafting the unitary executive.
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Bob Bauer and Jack Goldsmith discuss Jack’s October 19 piece on Senator Elissa Slotkin’s recent viral remarks at the University of Chicago, where she said she wanted accountability for the people who enabled President Trump, at least in part with the goal of sending a “deterrence message” to new graduates who might consider working for the administration. Jack explains why he thinks Senator Slotkin’s remarks were imprudent, and why he finds the prevailing reaction from pro-Trump quarters hypocritical. Bob presses on whether congressional investigation is different from weaponizing law enforcement, and whether worry about retaliation could lead to the most lawless conduct going unanswered. They also discuss Jack’s prediction that Trump will issue thousands of pardons, his case for prioritizing transparency, and why it is, and will continue to be, incredibly challenging for either side to de-escalate.
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Bob Bauer and Jack Goldsmith discuss Bob’s recent piece, “Why the Trump Election Interference Strategy Failed.” Bob describes three factors: flawed strategy resting on a “constitutionally doomed” theory of executive power over federal elections and on tenuous noncitizen-voting claims; the courts, which repeatedly ruled against the administration, capped by the Supreme Court’s same-day denial in the California ballot-segregation case; and a decentralized election system whose officials, in red and blue states alike, carried out their work as in any other election. Bauer and Goldsmith also chat about the solicitor general’s final emergency application, and how the president’s political weakness and the polls’ forecast of decisive Democratic win decreased the viability of election denialism.
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Jack interviews Caleb Nelson, the Emerson G. Spies Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of Virginia School of Law, about his working paper, “Against the Dictatorial Presidency.” They discuss the modern history of unitary executive theory, Nelson’s criticisms of the theory in Slaughter, the relevance of the Necessary and Proper Clause, and the dangers of Slaughter, with special focus on the civil service. Goldsmith and Nelson close by discussing the Court’s unexplained Fed carve-out, with Nelson lamenting the Court’s selective willingness to consider consequences in crafting the unitary executive.
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Bob Bauer and Jack Goldsmith discuss Jack’s October 19 piece on Senator Elissa Slotkin’s recent viral remarks at the University of Chicago, where she said she wanted accountability for the people who enabled President Trump, at least in part with the goal of sending a “deterrence message” to new graduates who might consider working for the administration. Jack explains why he thinks Senator Slotkin’s remarks were imprudent, and why he finds the prevailing reaction from pro-Trump quarters hypocritical. Bob presses on whether congressional investigation is different from weaponizing law enforcement, and whether worry about retaliation could lead to the most lawless conduct going unanswered. They also discuss Jack’s prediction that Trump will issue thousands of pardons, his case for prioritizing transparency, and why it is, and will continue to be, incredibly challenging for either side to de-escalate.
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Bob Bauer interviews Francis Fukuyama, the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford’s Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies and author of The End of History and the Last Man. They discuss his new memoir, In the Realm of the Last Man, which, among other things, seeks to address misconceptions about the argument for which he is best known and to depict his intellectual arc; how excessive proceduralism fetters American government and drives voters toward populist candidates; whether reform would take a crisis; why Fukuyama posits that the post-Trump years may bring civil service and permitting reforms that were previously out of reach; and the necessity of educating young people on liberal values. Bauer and Fukuyama close by discussing changing one’s mind: the psychological barriers to it (particularly in an insular group setting), the liberation that expressing it can bring, and the interpersonal costs it involved in the case of Fukuyama’s departure from the neoconservative movement.
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Jack interviews attorney and historian Catherine Grace Katz about her new book, Shadow Before the Flame: The Hindenburg Disaster and the Prelude to War. They discuss how a 1925 U.S. ban on helium exports required German airships to fly on flammable hydrogen, leading to the famous 1937 explosion over New Jersey. They also cover the Nazi takeover of the struggling Zeppelin company and the subsequent use of its airships as propaganda tools, and the later controversy surrounding whether to sell helium to Germany even after Congress relaxed the export ban. Katz closes by noting parallels to AI and other dual-use technologies, the necessity of balancing civilian risk against potential benefits, and the hubris that often accompanies large-scale innovation.
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Bob interviews Nate Persily, the James B. McClatchy Professor of Law at Stanford Law School and co-director of the Stanford Law AI Initiative, about artificial intelligence and democracy, with particular attention to elections. They discuss what’s driving American anxiety about AI, why Republican and Democratic users alike rate AI models as left of center, and why Persily thinks the greater danger from deepfakes is not voters who are fooled but voters who stop believing what’s true—the “liar’s dividend.” They also take up the risks of relying on chatbots for voting information, state laws requiring disclosure of AI in political ads, and why Persily, though not “an unrepentant doomer,” thinks the time to regulate AI may be running out rapidly.
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Bob Bauer interviews Tammy Patrick, Chief Executive Officer for Programs at the Election Center and former Federal Compliance Officer for the Maricopa County Elections Department, about how election officials are preparing for the midterm elections. They discuss differences between an imperfect election and an illegitimate one, the decentralized patchwork of thousands of local offices that administers the vote, the checks set up to constrain partisan officials or rogue insiders, and why federal intervention now tops the list of concerns for many officials. Tammy closes with advice for voters: make a plan, vote early, and don’t mistake a slow count for a rigged one.
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Jack and Bob discuss the legality of the three advertisements praising President Trump that have recently aired with the tag “Paid for by the U.S. Government” and were reportedly paid for with Department of Homeland Security funds. They explain why the advertisements run afoul of the annually enacted appropriations rider barring the use of public money for publicity or propaganda purposes, and examine how the Government Accountability Office’s categories of impermissible propaganda apply to each of the three ads. They also touch on the less-clear relevance of the Hatch Act, why the applicable enforcement mechanisms are unlikely to be used, and what might explain an administration with ample party funds spending public money on advertisements that leading members of its own party have criticized.
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Jack Goldsmith interviews John Coates, the John F. Cogan, Jr. Professor of Law and Economics at Harvard Law School and former general counsel of the Securities and Exchange Commission, about Trump Media’s sale of early access to the president’s Truth Social posts—up to $100,000 a month for a roughly 50-millisecond head start on market-moving announcements. They discuss how the arrangement differs from the low-latency data feeds Bloomberg and Dow Jones lawfully sell, how the STOCK Act applies the insider trading laws to the president by name, and who may bear legal risk: the subscribers, the president, or both. They also take up potential enforcement by a future administration, under New York’s Martin Act, or through private suits.
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Bob Bauer discusses the Supreme Court’s order declining to stay the injunction against the Postal Service’s ballot-mail rule, issued the previous evening over a brief concurrence from Justice Kavanaugh and a longer dissent from Justices Alito and Thomas. He reads the Court’s order as a possible signal that eleventh-hour executive interventions in the electoral process would meet skepticism; notes the measure of bipartisanship in the record, including red-state election officials who told the Court the rule could not be implemented in time; and cautions that the rule’s application to the 2028 (and later) elections remains an open question.
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Bob Bauer and Jack Goldsmith cover three sites of Republican pushback against the administration's election interventions: the Missouri dispute over which congressional map governs November, Justice Department election monitors in Wyoming, and a Supreme Court brief from 38 current and former election officials, several from deep-red states, arguing the mail-ballot rule cannot be implemented in time for the midterms.
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Jack interviews Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, the Ashton B. Carter Visiting Professor at the Harvard Kennedy School and formerly Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Deputy National Security Advisor, about her new Kennedy School report, Deterrence by Resilience: Securing the United States and Promoting Innovation in the Age of Bioconvergence. They discuss how artificial intelligence has changed the biological threat landscape since ChatGPT, the scenarios that worry her most, and the report's recommendations across prevention, detection, attribution, readiness, response, and resilience—among them a nationwide early warning system, rapid attribution, a federally chartered National Institute for Bioresilience, and an Operation Warp Speed-style partnership with industry built before the crisis rather than during it. They also take up the legislation this would require, what the frontier AI labs might make of it, and the surveillance and privacy tradeoffs the program implies.
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Jack and Bob discuss litigation over the Trump administration’s executive order on the Postal Service and election integrity, and the recent final rule that the Postal Service issued to implement the order. They explain what the Trump administration is seeking to accomplish with these maneuvers and examine the fate of two cases challenging the final rule that are pending in the District of Columbia and Massachusetts. They also analyze the practical difficulties in implementing the rule before the fall election, the role of federal criminal enforcement as a source of pressure on the states, and how the Purcell principle bears on litigation brought this close to an election.
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Bob speaks with Danielle Friedman, Legal Director of the State Democracy Research Initiative at the University of Wisconsin Law School, about the Initiatives’ recently published analysis of state criminal laws that could apply to potential federal government interference in the 2026 and future elections. They discuss laws, varying from state to state, that address deployment of military or other armed forces at the polls; actions to delay or disrupt the delivery of election mail, such as registration forms and ballots; and the seizure and removal of voting materials from election offices. Their discussion covers the likely federal government defenses against state criminal prosecutions of this kind.
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Jack Goldsmith interviews former Homeland Security Secretary and Pentagon General Counsel Jeh Johnson about the article he co-authored in the Journal of National Security Law and Policy, "Presidential War Powers, Executive Expansion, and Congressional Retreat." They discuss how Congress's power over war has eroded, the constitutional and practical obstacles to reasserting it, and the war in Iran as a live example.
Mentioned:
* Jeh Johnson and Ethan Klaris, Presidential War Powers: Executive Expansion and Congressional Retreat (2026)
* Cyrus Vance, Striking the Balance: Congress and the President Under the War Powers Resolution (1984)
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As the 2026 midterms approach, Jack and Bob give a big-picture overview of the Trump administration’s efforts to use federal law enforcement and executive power to influence the congressional elections. They discuss the constitutional limits on presidential authority over election rules, the administration’s novel tactics and mounting losses in court thus far, and the potential deployment of the military or ICE to the polls. They also examine the effects of the administration’s agenda on voter turnout, public confidence in the electoral process, and the risk of contested results.
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Jack speaks with University of Virginia School of Law Professor Saikrishna Prakash about the implications of the Supreme Court’s decisions in Trump v. Slaughter and Trump v. Cook. They discussed the breadth of the holding in Slaughter; its implications for the president’s control over inferior officers, civil servants, and non-Article III courts; and its broader import for the non-delegation doctrine, the major questions doctrine, and other mechanisms that could constrain the now-more-broadly-empowered unitary executive. They also discussed the validity of the carve-out in both cases for the Federal Reserve.
Relevant reading:
- “The Executive Power of Removal” by Aditya Bamzai and Saikrishna Bangalore Prakash (Harvard Law Review, 2023)
- “New Light on the Decision of 1789” by Saikrishna Prakash (Cornell Law Review, 2006)
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Jack chats with Robert Wright about his forthcoming book, The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning. They discuss why Wright views AI through an evolutionary lens, the promises and perils of increasingly capable AI systems, and the prospects for international cooperation—particularly between the U.S. and China—in managing AI-related risks. They also examine Wright’s argument that successfully governing AI may require a modest moral upgrade across society, including individual efforts to preserve cognitive sovereignty and mitigate the biases and tribal instincts that can hinder global cooperation.
Mentioned:
- Robert Wright, The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning (2026)
- “When AI Builds Itself” (Anthropic, June 4, 2026)
- “US National Security Agency using Anthropic’s Mythos for cyber attacks,” by Cristina Criddle and Demetri Sevastopulo (Financial Times, June 4, 2026)
- “Promoting Advanced Artificial Intelligence Innovation and Security,” (The White House, June 2, 2026)
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Bob and Jack discuss President Trump’s nomination of Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, the current acting attorney general, to become Attorney General. They review Blanche’s record at DOJ, including his role in political weaponization, ethics concerns, and the fallout from the proposed Anti-Weaponization Fund. They also examine why Trump is forcing a confirmation fight when Blanche could plausibly lead the Justice Department for the rest of Trump’s term without Senate confirmation. What’s at stake, they discuss, is whether the Senate will endorse, and thus take responsibility for, Trump’s DOJ weaponization campaign.
Mentioned:
* “The High Stakes of the Blanche Nomination” by Bob Bauer (Executive Functions, June 9, 2026)
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Following President Trump’s appointment of Bill Pulte to serve as acting director of national intelligence, Bob Bauer asks Avril Haines, who held the position during the Biden administration, to explain the history behind the establishment of the Office of Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) and the role of the director as leader of the intelligence community. They also discuss why the law requires nominees for the director to have “extensive national security experience” when there is no such requirement for the director of the CIA; the significance of ODNI appointments for U.S. cooperation with allies on intelligence intelligence gathering and collaboration; and the importance of the position in congressional oversight of the intelligence community.
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Bob and Jack discuss the Justice Department and IRS “settlement” with President Trump and his family, which created a $1.776 billion “Anti-Weaponization Fund” for Trump allies and immunized Trump and others from IRS scrutiny and penalties for past conduct. They discuss how the episode combines two hallmarks of the Trump presidency: abuse of government power and self-enrichment. They also consider possible judicial remedies and the causes and possible consequences of the sharp congressional reaction, including from many Republicans.
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Jack chats with Sebastian Mallaby, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, about his new book The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence. They discuss current challenges in AI safety, the U.S.-China race and prospects for cooperation, and the emerging risks posed by powerful new models like Anthropic’s Mythos. They also talk about tensions between frontier labs and the U.S. government, and the trajectory toward greater government control.
Mentioned:
* Sebastian Mallaby, The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence (2026)
Thumbnail: President Trump delivers remarks at the White House AI Summit in Washington, D.C., Wednesday, July 23, 2025. (Official White House Photo by Joyce N. Boghosian)
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This is an edited transcript of an episode of “Executive Functions Chat.” You can listen to the full conversation by following or subscribing to the show on Substack, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Jack Goldsmith: Today I’m chatting with Sebastian Mallaby, who’s a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and an acclaimed biographer and writer. And we’re going to be talking about his newest book, which is called The Infinity Machine. Sebastian, thanks for talking with me.
Sebastian Mallaby: Thank you, Jack. Nice to be with you.
So tell us what the book is about. Who is Demis Hassabis, and why did you write a book about him?
So the book is about artificial intelligence, and it’s centered on this character, Demis Hassabis, who is, in a way, the OG sort of AI lab leader, right? He starts DeepMind, this startup in London, back in 2010, before AI could even recognize the photograph of a cat—like nothing worked. It was full AI winter.
So this is five years before Sam Altman and Elon Musk start OpenAI. It’s fully 11 years before Anthropic gets started. So he was extremely early.
So if you wanted to tell...
Jack chats with Marty Lederman, professor at Georgetown University Law Center and former deputy assistant attorney general in the Office of Legal Counsel, about a recent OLC opinion declaring the Presidential Records Act unconstitutional. They examine what is at stake, the statute’s history, and the constitutional arguments behind the claim. They also discuss a lawsuit challenging the opinion and the hurdles it faces in getting to the merits.
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Jack chats with Sarah Isgur about her new book, Last Branch Standing: A Potentially Surprising, Occasionally Witty Journey Inside Today’s Supreme Court. They unpack her theory of the Court’s decisional dynamics and explore the Court’s approach to executive power in the Trump era, which can be seen as both empowering and constraining the presidency on different dimensions.
Mentioned:
- Sarah Isgur, Last Branch Standing: A Potentially Surprising, Occasionally Witty Journey Inside Today’s Supreme Court (2026)
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In light of President Trump’s recent threats to withdraw the United States from the North Atlantic Treaty, Jack chats with Professor Curtis Bradley of the University of Chicago Law School about whether Trump has the authority to do so. They discuss the constitutional foundations of treaty termination and the validity of Congress’s 2023 statute that restricts withdrawal absent congressional or senatorial consent. They also examine whether a suit to challenge presidential withdrawal from the treaty could be brought in federal court.
Mentioned:
Curtis A. Bradley, Historical Gloss and Foreign Affairs: Constitutional Authority in Practice (2024)
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Bob and Jack chat about the war with Iran and Congress’s response. They discuss Congress’s failed efforts to halt the conflict, an emerging proposal for a constrained authorization of force, and the Trump administration’s limited engagement with lawmakers. They examine the politics of the conflict, the role of funding and appropriations, the status of the War Powers Resolution, and contemporary legal debates over military operations without congressional authorization, including the scope of Office of Legal Counsel opinions and the broader shift toward a one-man-decides model of war powers.
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Jack speaks with Cass Sunstein, the Robert Walmsley University Professor at Harvard Law School, about his new book, Separation of Powers: How to Preserve Liberty in Troubled Times. They discuss why the executive is the most dangerous branch of government, the importance of responsible executive branch lawyers, and contemporary debates over the administrative state, including unitary executive theory in light of the Trump v. Slaughter oral argument and the major questions doctrine after the tariffs case, Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump.
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In light of the U.S. attacks on Iran over the weekend, Jack speaks with Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, former White House Homeland Security Advisor, about how the U.S. government would normally prepare for domestic threats during periods of heightened risk. They discuss how the federal homeland security enterprise activates in response to elevated threat levels, including coordination across the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, the intelligence community, and state and local law enforcement. They also explore concerns about federal capacity, including a DHS funding lapse, resource diversion away from counterterrorism and toward immigration enforcement, and leadership turnover across key agencies.
Thumbnail: FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force photo. (U.S. Government Work.)
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Jack speaks with Matthew Seligman, a fellow at the Stanford Constitutional Law Center, about the remedial consequences of the Supreme Court’s decision invalidating tariffs imposed under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. They walk through how tariff collection works, why repayment is not automatic, and the procedural hurdles importers face in trying to recover what they paid, including major barriers to class-wide or aggregate relief. They also examine the practical and political constraints shaping the process, including institutional capacity, litigation costs, and why many smaller importers may never recover their losses.
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Bob and Jack chat about a federal court’s preliminary injunction blocking the Defense Department’s attempt to reduce Senator Mark Kelly’s military retirement benefits, along with a grand jury’s refusal to indict six Democratic members of Congress, including Kelly, who in a video reminded service members of their duty to refuse unlawful orders. They discuss how Trump administration weaponization can be effective even with court losses, and debate possible reforms to limit politically motivated prosecutions of members of Congress, including Bob’s proposal for a court-appointed special counsel and an alternative that focuses on revising the substance of criminal statutes.
Mentioned:
“The Bad News in the D.C. Grand Jury’s Refusal to Indict Six Members of Congress” by Bob Bauer (Executive Functions, Feb. 12, 2026)
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Jack speaks with Richard Ekins, professor of law and constitutional government at Oxford University, about the United Kingdom’s plan to transfer sovereignty over the Chagos Islands to Mauritius while leasing back the Diego Garcia naval base for continued U.S.–U.K. military use—an issue that has drawn renewed attention in recent weeks after President Trump publicly criticized the proposed agreement. They discuss the historical background of the Chagos Islands dispute, the role of international courts, treaty obligations between the United States and the United Kingdom, and the strategic importance of Diego Garcia. They also examine the legal and security risks of the proposed transfer, including constraints on the use of force, nuclear nonproliferation obligations, and the question of why the United States might consent to the agreement.
Since this chat was recorded, President Trump today signaled support for the Chagos sovereignty transfer, or at least a rollback of his criticism. He also said: “If the lease deal, sometime in the future, ever falls apart, or anyone threatens or endangers US operations and forces at our Base, I retain the right to Militarily secure and reinforce the American presence in Diego Garcia.”
Mentioned:
“Britain’s Chagos Deal Can’t Go Forward Without U.S. Consent” by Richard Ekin (National Review, Jan. 30, 2026.)
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Bob and Jack talk about grievances from President Trump’s first term that continue to shape his second-term conduct. They examine the federal search warrant recently executed at a Fulton County election facility seeking 2020 ballots, including the structure and purpose of the investigation and the president’s asserted authority to use federal law enforcement in election matters. They also discuss Trump’s $10 billion lawsuit against the IRS and the Treasury Department over the disclosure of his tax information, unpacking the basis of the claims and the institutional questions raised by a sitting president suing the executive branch he oversees.
Mentioned:
“Is the Administration Prepared to Deploy ICE to Police This Fall’s Elections?” by Bob Bauer (Executive Functions, Jan. 27, 2026)
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Jack speaks with University of Virginia School of Law Professor Saikrishna Prakash about his new book, The Presidential Pardon: The Short Clause with a Long, Troubled History. They discuss the origins of the pardon power, the framers’ anxieties about its breadth, controversies about its early use, how modern presidents have increasingly used clemency to advance ideological, political, and personal goals, and the challenges of reform.
Mentioned:
Saikrishna Bangalore Prakash, The Presidential Pardon: The Short Clause with a Long, Troubled History (2026)
“Trump’s Circumvention of the Justice Department Clemency Process” by Jack Goldsmith and Matt Gluck (Lawfare, Dec. 29, 2020)
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Jack and Bob examine President Trump’s threat to invoke the Insurrection Act in response to ICE-related unrest in Minneapolis. They discuss the Act’s broad language, the uncertain scope of presidential discretion, the many unresolved constitutional questions that the Supreme Court might consider, and the political and legal risks of deploying troops domestically—particularly against the backdrop of upcoming elections.
Further reading:
“Trump Threatens to Invoke the Insurrection Act” by Bob Bauer and Jack Goldsmith (Executive Functions, Jan. 15, 2026)
“Thoughts on the Interim Order in Trump v. Illinois” by Jack Goldsmith (Executive Functions, Dec. 24, 2025)
“Trolling About Habeas Corpus” by Jack Goldsmith (Executive Functions, May 12, 2025)
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Jack and Bob discuss the subpoena targeting Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, the legal limits on presidential control of the Fed, Senate resistance, and the potential consequences for markets and the administration heading into the midterms.
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Bob and Jack discuss the legality of the U.S. invasion of Venezuela leading to the capture President Nicolás Maduro, how law matters to presidential uses of force, and what legal issues to expect at Maduro’s trial.
Mentioned:
“On the Legality of the Venezuela Invasion” by Jack Goldsmith (Executive Functions, Jan. 3, 2026)
Curtis A. Bradley, Historical Gloss and Foreign Affairs: Constitutional Authority in Practice (2024)
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Jack spoke with Chris Mirasola of the University of Houston Law Center about the President’s “protective power” to use the regular armed forces or the National Guard (if properly federalized) in the domestic sphere for the protection of federal property and functions. They discussed the origins and scope of the protective power, its relationship to the Posse Comitatus Act, why it was relevant in Trump v. Illinois, and the president’s prominent options for domestic deployment of the military (including using regular armed forces for a protective function) after Trump v. Illinois.
Further reading:
Chris Mirasola, Sovereignty, Article II, and the Military During Domestic Unrest, 15 Harv. Nat’l Sec. J. 199 (2023)
Jack Goldsmith, Thoughts on the Interim Order in Trump v. Illinois, Executive Functions (December 24, 2025)
Chris Mirasola, Unpacking the Protective Power, Lawfare (June 12, 2025)
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Bob and Jack discuss the latest developments across three ongoing issues in Trump’s second term: use of the pardon power, unresolved transparency disputes, and the administration’s campaign against major law firms. They examine the political dynamics at play behind a recent series of pardons, promised disclosures related to the Epstein files and the Sept. 2 boat strikes, and how executive orders targeting major law firms, though repeatedly struck down, continue to create uncertainty and pressure within the legal profession.
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Jack talks with University of Minnesota Law School professor Alan Z. Rozenshtein about how artificial intelligence could reshape the modern presidency by easing bureaucratic limits that have traditionally constrained presidential control. Building on Rozenshtein’s lecture, The Unitary Artificial Executive, they discuss how automated decision systems might function as a presidential “oracle” across the administrative state. The conversation examines how, and to what extent, AI could centralize power throughout agencies, reduce the role of human deliberation, and alter traditional principal–agent relationships inside government.
Mentioned:
“The Unitary Artificial Executive” by Alan Z. Rozenshtein (Lawfare, Oct. 30, 2025)
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Bob talks with historian Walter Stahr about William Howard Taft’s model of the presidency. The conversation covers Taft’s remarkably varied career across the executive and judicial branches, his differences with Theodore Roosevelt over the scope of executive power, his stance on war powers, and the significance of his post-presidential writing on executive authority and responsibility.
Mentioned:
Walter Stahr, Stanton: Lincoln’s War Secretary (2017)
William Howard Taft, Our Chief Magistrate and Its Powers (1916)
Theodore Roosevelt, An Autobiography (1913)
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Jack talks with Columbia Law professor David Pozen about Pozen's recent Boston Review essay with Jedediah Britton-Purdy, “What Are We Living Through?” They discuss three competing ways of understanding the Trump administration—authoritarian rupture, continuity with long-running dysfunction, and a transition to a new constitutional regime. The conversation explores whether all three can be true, what kind of damage may be irreversible, and what rebuilding might look like after Trump.
Mentioned:
“What Are We Living Through?” by David Pozen & Jedediah Britton-Purdy (Boston Review, Oct. 15, 2025)
“Hardball and/as Anti-Hardball” by David Pozen (Lawfare, Oct. 11, 2018)
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Bob and Jack discuss recent reports of internal rifts at the Department of Justice, the loyalty pressures shaping the Trump administration, and whether constitutional reform is needed to curb the spiral of politicized prosecutions.
Mentioned:
The Imperial Presidency by Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr
“Part Enabler, Part Bluffer: The Bind of the Justice Department’s No. 2” by Glenn Thrush and Alan Feuer (NYT)
“How Should a DOJ Political Appointee Think About a Trump-Weaponized DOJ?” by Jack Goldsmith (Executive Functions)
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Bob and Jack discuss (and disagree about) the Oregon National Guard ruling, the deference owed to the president, the relevance of the president’s Truth Social comments, and the ultimate limits on the president’s power to use the military in the domestic sphere.
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Bob and Jack discuss the Trump administration’s indictment of former FBI Director James Comey, the lawfulness of the Lindsey Halligan appointment as interim U.S. Attorney, the implications of Trump’s full takeover and weaponization of DOJ, and how to think about reform in this context.
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Keith Whittington, David Boies Professor of Law at Yale Law School and author of The Political Foundations of Judicial Supremacy, joins Jack Goldsmith for a conversation about reconstructive presidents (Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, and FDR), and whether Donald Trump fits that mold. They discuss Trump’s constitutional ambitions, judicial supremacy versus departmentalism, and whether Trump will defy the Court.
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Bob and Jack discuss the performance of White House Counsel David Warrington and examine last week’s lethal strike on alleged Venezuelan terrorists—including its possible implications for domestic presidential military strikes.
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This is an edited transcript of an episode of “Executive Functions Chat.” You can listen to the full conversation by following or subscribing to the show on Substack, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Jack Goldsmith: Good morning, Bob.
Bob Bauer: Good morning, Jack.
There’s been so much in the news since we last chatted, which was quite a while ago, actually. Today, we’re going to focus on some topics that we know a little bit about. We’re going to discuss two stories from last week about Trump administration lawyering: the long New York Times profile on your successor in the White House Counsel’s Office, David Warrington, and the administration’s lethal strike on a speedboat in the southern Caribbean that allegedly contained members of the designated Venezuela terrorist organization Tren de Aragua, allegedly transporting drugs to the United States.
These connect insofar as they involve executive-branch legal decision-making. Why don’t you begin by summarizing and commenting on the New York Times story about Warrington?
A number of things struck me about the story about Warrington. Of course, it was published against the background of a lot of debate about the role of the White House counsel—the extent to which the White House counsel has supplanted the Department of Justice (DOJ) as the principal channel for legal advice to the president. What that means if presidents pick White House counsels who are particularly friendly to them, have personal or political backgrounds with them, and can be expected to be, if you will, loyal and pliant.
Some of that debate has been, in this administration, overtaken by events, because once there was a thought that preside...
Jack Goldsmith is joined by Professor Aditya Bamzai of the University of Virginia Law School. They discuss the president’s constitutional removal power, whether the president satisfied the statutory “for cause” standard in firing Cook, why that issue is hard, whether Cook’s pre-Fed actions are relevant, whether Cook gets notice and a hearing before firing, and whether a reinstatement remedy is available.
This is an edited transcript of an episode of “Executive Functions Chat.” You can listen to the full conversation by following or subscribing to the show on Substack, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Jack Goldsmith: Good morning. This morning, I’m going to talk to Professor Aditya Bamzai at the University of Virginia Law School about the President’s firing of Lisa Cook, a member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Aditya is an expert on the removal powers of the President, and he’s also an expert on removal in the context of the Federal Reserve, so he’s the perfect person to talk to us about these issues. So I’m just going to briefly go over what happened, but thanks for doing this, Aditya.
Aditya Bamzai: Thanks so much, Jack, for having me. Good morning to you. And you did leave out my most important credential, which is: I was once a civil procedure student in the class of Professor Goldsmith back in the spring of 2002.
I take full credit for all of your success. OK, so Monday the president fired Lisa Cook, a member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. The relevant statute, which is 12 U.S. Code § 242, prescribes the term for the governors and says they shall—I’m quoting—“hold office for a term of 14 years unless sooner removed for cause by the President.” And those words, “for cause by the President,” are going to be very important. One big question here is going to be: What counts as a for-cause removal?
Unlike many other removal provisions that are strewn about the U.S. Code and at issue in Supreme Court decisions, this one—I’m g...
In this episode we review the Epstein scandal and discuss Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche’s conflict-of-interest problems, the White House challenge, and the looming role of Congress.
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This is an edited transcript of an episode of “Executive Functions Chat.” You can listen to the full conversation by following or subscribing to the show on Substack, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Jack Goldsmith: Good morning, Bob.
Bob Bauer: Good morning, Jack.
So, this morning, we're going to talk about the Epstein scandal and how the White House is managing it, how the Department of Justice (DOJ) is managing it, and how Congress should be thinking about it. You've been writing about this the last few weeks, so why don't you just start off by—everybody knows about the scandal, but just briefly summarize where we are.
In the last week or so, I don't know how many days ago it was, the Department of Justice became very much involved with the deputy attorney general flying to Florida for a nine-hour interview under a limited grant of immunity with Ghislaine Maxwell, former paramour and longtime associate of Epstein who has been convicted of participating in and facilitating sex trafficking, and she's now appealing those convictions.
The administration apparently thought at the time it had come to show that it was taking an active interest in disclosures after the uproar in his own base and among his own MAGA community over the surprising announcement that after a review of the files, DOJ had concluded that Epstein had in fact committed suicide, he had not been murdered, and there was no additional information to suggest that other people had committed crimes.
And as you know, from this point forward, the administration has been scrambling to address the frustrations of that community over the absence of the disclosures that they believe they were promised—the further disclosures about Epstein...
President Trump yesterday evening withdrew the nomination of Alina Habba for U.S. attorney for the District of New Jersey so that Attorney General Pam Bondi could appoint Habba as the “first assistant” in the U.S. attorney’s office—with the aim of positioning Habba to serve as U.S. attorney in an acting capacity. This came after DOJ, purportedly pursuant to the president’s authority, fired the official who was appointed by a panel of district judges to serve as interim U.S. attorney.
We’re pleased to welcome Anne Joseph O’Connell, the Adelbert H. Sweet Professor of Law at Stanford Law School, as our first guest on Executive Functions Chat to break down the relevant legal issues in this saga and discuss the broader legal landscape.
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We discuss the response of TikTok providers to the administration’s non-enforcement pledges—including the companies’ legal liability and whether their responsibility to comply with the law runs past potential liability.
Read Bob’s piece from yesterday about the providers’ conduct here.
And check out Jack’s assessments of the legal basis for the non-enforcement of the statute here and here.
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