Heavy Networking is an unabashedly nerdy dive into all things networking. Described by one listener as "verbal white papers," the weekly episodes feature network engineers, industry experts, and vendors sharing useful information to keep your professional knowledge sharp and your career growing. Hosts Ethan Banks & Drew Conry-Murray cut through the marketing spin to explore what works—and what doesn't—in networking today, while keeping an eye on what's ahead for the industry. On air since 2010, Heavy Networking is the flagship show of the Packet Pushers podcast network.
56 min
Today, Drew and Ethan cover the brand new Certified Kubernetes Network Engineer program with Nico Vibert. Nico helped create this certification, and is writing a study guide for the program to be published by O’Reilly in 2027. They discuss what the CKNE covers, who should take it, how to prepare, and how it can advance... Read more »
52 min
Amazon AWS is not new to the high-bandwidth, elephant flow-oriented data center traffic pattern requirements of AI. In this sponsored episode from AWS, Distinguished Engineer and Network Core VP JR Rivers and Senior Principal Networking Engineer Stephen Callaghan join Ethan and Drew to discuss running AI workloads on AWS. Together they break down why inference... Read more »
1 hr 2 min
Packet Pushers has been acquired by Meter. On this special Heavy Networking episode, guest host Scott Robohn talks with Ethan Banks and Anil Varanasi, CEO of Meter, about the acquisition. Ethan and Anil explain how this relationship will work (including full editorial independence for Packet Pushers), why it was the best move for Packet Pushers,... Read more »
The newest 50 of 250 episodes
56 min
Today, Drew and Ethan cover the brand new Certified Kubernetes Network Engineer program with Nico Vibert. Nico helped create this certification, and is writing a study guide for the program to be published by O’Reilly in 2027. They discuss what the CKNE covers, who should take it, how to prepare, and how it can advance... Read more »
52 min
Amazon AWS is not new to the high-bandwidth, elephant flow-oriented data center traffic pattern requirements of AI. In this sponsored episode from AWS, Distinguished Engineer and Network Core VP JR Rivers and Senior Principal Networking Engineer Stephen Callaghan join Ethan and Drew to discuss running AI workloads on AWS. Together they break down why inference... Read more »
1 hr 2 min
Packet Pushers has been acquired by Meter. On this special Heavy Networking episode, guest host Scott Robohn talks with Ethan Banks and Anil Varanasi, CEO of Meter, about the acquisition. Ethan and Anil explain how this relationship will work (including full editorial independence for Packet Pushers), why it was the best move for Packet Pushers,... Read more »
1 hr 8 min
John Capobianco returns to Heavy Networking to discuss his latest open source project, NetClaw. NetClaw is an automation assistant for network engineers that leverages MCP and has a robust security architecture to ensure production safety. John is here to explain why and how he built NetClaw, and ways network engineers can use it in their... Read more »
1 hr 0 min
Many network engineers don’t trust AI, in part because the tech is non-deterministic and can behave in unanticipated ways. Simultaneously, the networking industry is baking AI functions deeply into operations, which has proven useful, but engineers still have their misgivings. Are these misgivings still warranted, given just how far we have advanced from chatbots and... Read more »
1 hr 0 min
In this sponsored episode, Alex La Fazia and Daniel Kaczmarczyk of Meter explain how they built an internal tool to automate network topology creation, drastically reducing design time from hundreds of hours to seconds. They share how they relied on a deterministic rules engine to ensure accurate, repeatable network configurations. They also discuss leveraging AI... Read more »
58 min
Bart Dorlandt discusses the practical applications and architecture of the BGP Monitoring Protocol (BMP) for service providers. Bart has developed a BMP application to help his customers monitor BGP. He talks about how he handles data collection, why it’s important to capture pre- and post-policy filtering, how he deals with excessive prefix volumes, future plans... Read more »
1 hr 7 min
Today’s show puts the “heavy” in Heavy Networking with a discussion about Multipath Reliable Connection (MRC). MRC is about getting an even distribution of RDMA traffic across equal cost multipath links in massive data centers, and doing so over plain old lossy Ethernet. Ethan, Drew, and guests discuss how packet spraying, resilience to link and... Read more »
58 min
Drew and Ethan talk with Kevin Nanns about his journey from network engineer to network architect. Kevin shares his experience grappling with the shift in responsibilities, increased pressure, and communication and management challenges associated with his new role. They also discuss his content creation work on TikTok and his strategies for translating complex technical concepts... Read more »
1 hr 13 min
Q-Day signals the public emergence of a cryptographically relevant quantum computer that can break public key encryption. The date of Q-Day is unknown but the tech industry is making preparations now. Bill Dockery joins Drew and guest host Scott Robohn to dig into Post Quantum Cryptography (PQC), what network engineers need to know to test... Read more »
59 min
In this sponsored episode, Kyle Baxter and Sridhar Katere from HPE join Drew to talk about automating enterprise data center networks. They discuss how HPE integrates its Apstra and Mist products to bring AI ops and self-driving capabilities into data center operations. They also break down how HPE leverages the different strengths of each platform,... Read more »
51 min
When engineers look to buy new technology they tend to focus on features and functionality, but there’s more to it than that. Sian Morgan joins Drew and Ethan to discuss the best practices involved in making a good technology buying decision. Sian shares how engineers can align their technical focus with broader business objectives, calculate... Read more »
55 min
If you think of BlueCat as just an IPAM or DDI company, think again. BlueCat acquired LiveAction in 2024, and since then, they’ve been working to integrate LiveAction’s network observability capabilities with the DDI portfolio. In this sponsored episode, Ryan Grande, Field CTO at BlueCat, is here to dig into how network observability and DDI... Read more »
1 hr 4 min
What does it take to build your own AI agent that could help with day-to-day network tasks? Hank Preston, a Distinguished Architect at Cisco, asked himself that question. He developed a presentation that walks through all the elements one might need to build such an agent, as well as the risks to consider. On today’s... Read more »
1 hr 5 min
Ethan Banks sits down with Eduard Dulharu live at AutoCon 5 to explore how agentic AI can be used to reduce Mean Time to Recovery (MTTR) for complex network environments. Eduard breaks down how these AI agents leverage deterministic workflows and custom fine-tuned models to analyze telemetry and propose solutions. Through the use of agentic... Read more »
54 min
As more applications and services rely on AI inferencing, that means more traffic on the WAN. Yes, bandwidth can solve a lot of problems, it’s not unlimited and AI inference traffic still has to share pipes with other flows. That means things like WAN latency, determinism, security, and traffic engineering are just as important as... Read more »
1 hr 9 min
Shortest Path Bridging (SPB) remains an intriguing and reliable fabric technology, offering a unique approach to Ethernet that differs from more widely deployed fabrics such as EVPN/VXLAN. Jeff Wilson joins Ethan and Drew to share his experience designing and managing SPB-based fabrics. Together they discuss how SPB simplifies multicast, essential hardware design considerations for scaling,... Read more »
52 min
In this sponsored episode, HPE’s Sunalini Sankhavaram and Jose Tellado discuss the architectural evolution toward self-driving networks. Together with Ethan and Drew, they break down how integrating agentic AI enables an autonomous architecture capable of being proactive and not just reactive. They also discuss the importance of maintaining human trust in autonomous systems and how... Read more »
1 hr 12 min
Ethan and Drew gather the rest of the Packet Pushers team to discuss the State of the Packet Pushers Network. Together they provide a behind the scenes look into current initiatives like adding video and raising the standards of our audio. They also share the details of the workflows behind all your favorite shows and... Read more »
45 min
AI has complicated network automation. It has created questions: If AI generates code for me, do I need to learn Python? Should I be writing a script to gather network information if I can dispatch an AI agent to gather that information for me instead? What new skills can I skip obtaining if AI stands... Read more »
55 min
Your network is an interconnected system. A change you make on one device has consequences beyond that device. Therefore, to do your job well, you must think about the network as a whole. That’s the big idea behind a blog post written by guest Jason Gintert. He joins Ethan and Drew to talk about how... Read more »
56 min
If you think Tailscale is just a VPN for the home lab, think again. On today’s sponsored episode Ethan and Drew are joined by Tailscale CEO Avery Pennarun. Avery explains how the company has evolved into an enterprise-grade connectivity and security platform. He also dives into Tailscale Aperture, their new AI gateway designed to bring... Read more »
54 min
Drew and Ethan sit down with Tony Bourke to determine whether TradCore or EVPN VXLAN is right for your network. Tony is a seasoned instructor in automation, network design, and more. They explore the key factors for choosing a design, including scale and redundancy, operational complexity, and workload mobility. AdSpot Sponsor: Auvik Sponsor Auvik Network... Read more »
46 min
Selector is extending its AI-driven network observability capabilities into public clouds. On today’s sponsored episode, we dig into how Selector gathers and analyzes public cloud network telemetry, how it integrates cloud and on-prem network data to provide end-to-end visibility, how it integrates with third-party Application Performance Monitoring (APM) systems to correlate network and application performance,... Read more »
1 hr 12 min
Today’s episode covers buffers, the space between ingress and egress where a packet might have to live for a fraction of a second if the egress port is tied up transmitting other packets. This topic came courtesy of John Howard who joins Drew and Ethan as a co-host to discuss buffers with guest Rob Sherwood. How... Read more »
34 min
A Mastercard survey reveals that 46% of small and medium businesses have experienced a cyberattack, and nearly 20% of those that suffered an attack were then forced to file for bankruptcy or close their business. Ethan and Drew along with guest Shivam Srivastava discuss a new offering from today’s sponsor, Palo Alto Networks: Prisma Browser... Read more »
54 min
Dijkstra’s algorithm is the foundation of shortest path calculations for link state routing protocols. But researchers have developed a new algorithm that improves on this decades-old approach. Today’s Heavy Networking welcomes Dr. Bruce Davie to discuss the potential of this new algorithm to unseat Dijkstra. After thoughtful consideration, and consultation with others, his opinion is... Read more »
1 hr 1 min
On today’s sponsored Heavy Networking, we get off the AI hype train to talk about how different artificial intelligence techniques usefully impact network operations—and where they aren’t a fit. The various forms of AI represent a set of tools that, like any tool, have use cases, capabilities, and limitations. Our guest is Avi Freedman, CEO... Read more »
51 min
On today’s episode Ethan is joined by Mark Prosser, a self-described Network Operator Advocate and Network Automation Dreamer, to embark on a thought exercise about network services. Together they grapple with questions such as: What is a network service, exactly? How is it defined? Is it even possible to define it when considered in the... Read more »
1 hr 12 min
On today’s sponsored episode we talk with David Gee, CEO at Curvium, a systems integrator and VAR. David holds thoughtful opinions about network automation and orchestration, how such platforms are to be built, and the impact AI is having on network automation. We dig into how AI fundamentally changes how we interact with systems, and... Read more »
55 min
Ethan Banks sits down with Ryan Hamel at the 96th North American Network Operators’ Group (NANOG96). Ryan, a network automation developer for the Zayo Group, talks about why boring network design is actually a good thing. He and Ethan explore why simplicity and standardization are key to long-term success. They also emphasize the importance of... Read more »
38 min
Palo Alto Networks released a slew of product news at the 2026 RSA conference around AI security, SASE, and a new certificate lifecycle management offering. On today’s Heavy Networking, sponsored by Palo Alto Networks, Ethan and Drew dig into these announcements to get details about how they work. They also talk about the risks of... Read more »
1 hr 1 min
Eric Chou, author of the AI Networking Cookbook and host of Network Automation Nerds, joins Ethan and Drew to discuss adding artificial intelligence to your network automation toolbox. The AI Networking Cookbook is aimed at network engineers and provides a systematic approach to learning AI for network automation. Together they break down pros and cons... Read more »
57 min
Software Defined Networking (SDN) is a centralized architecture in which a controller, or a hierarchy of controllers, runs software that computes network-engineered paths and pushes that forwarding scheme into the network. It’s also very complex, which can lead to network failures. What if there was a way to keep the benefits of SDN while also... Read more »
58 min
Our topic today is the designing and building of high-performance networking hardware. If you assume the hardware details don’t matter, you’re missing the intentional engineering required to build truly reliable and quiet infrastructure. In this sponsored episode, we discuss Meter’s hardware philosophy with our guest, Joshua Markell, Head of Hardware at Meter. Joshua walks us... Read more »
1 hr 14 min
Traditional routing protocols like OSPF simply choose the “shortest” path. If the shortest path is full of traffic and there are alternate paths carrying nothing, OSPF can’t help you. Path Computation Element (PCE) along with Path Computation Element Protocol (PCEP) is a way to construct forwarding paths through the network based on factors that distributed... Read more »
48 min
Our topic today is building and running network workflows. If your network workflows live in a spreadsheet, a SharePoint document, or in your head, you really need a workflow manager. A workflow manager brings scalability, repeatability, and consistency to your network operations team. In this sponsored episode, we discuss Cisco Crosswork Workflow Manager. Our guests... Read more »
57 min
What should network engineers know about software development? What should software developers know about networking? Ethan and Drew sit down with Chris Rapier and Nick Buraglio to discuss why crossing these silos can improve outcomes for everyone. They break down why being a little curious about the infrastructure can help software developers write better code,... Read more »
51 min
AI is everywhere in networking right now, but most of it feels like hype. In this sponsored episode, we go deeper than buzzwords with Steven Butler from Nokia to explore what it takes to make AI Ops real, reliable, and trustworthy in production environments. If you want AI to deliver value, you need the fundamentals... Read more »
57 min
What is the real-world impact of AI on network operations? Drew and Ethan have a chat with Carlos Pignataro, Founder & Principal at Blue Fern Consulting, to cut through the AI hype machine. Carlos offers a thoughtful, balanced take on where the industry is headed, and where it’s missing the mark. Together they discuss Intent-Based... Read more »
59 min
Are you an AI skeptic or an enthusiast? Ethan and Drew sit down with Igor Tarasenko, Senior Director of Product Software Architecture and Engineering at Equinix, to break down the reality of AI in the network. In this sponsored episode, Tarasenko discusses why APIs are the new CLI, the critical need for observability in AI,... Read more »
1 hr 8 min
It’s been over a decade since the first Packet Pushers podcast on EVPN. Now, guest Jeff McAdams can legitimately suggest that we “EVPN all the things.” Hosts Ethan Banks and Drew Conry-Murray dig into Jeff’s stance on EVPN/VXLAN. They look at how VXLAN and EVPN work; talk about use cases in the data center, the... Read more »
50 min
Is the ideal IT employee just leaving college or a veteran with years of experience? Russ White joins Ethan Banks and Drew Conry-Murray to discuss the complexities of this question. Younger professionals just out of college are more willing to work longer hours or unpopular shifts, learn new tools and skills, and take risks. Older... Read more »
52 min
Andy Lapteff once considered himself a ‘CLI lifer.’ As a network engineer he wasn’t interested in Python. He didn’t want to learn to code. He had no desire to embrace any of the developer-like processes and tools creeping into the profession, particularly around network automation. That’s changed. On today’s Heavy Networking, Andy shares the professional,... Read more »
46 min
Unit testing is a software development practice for checking that an individual component of code works before integrating that unit with other components in a larger program. A new open source project called Network Unit Testing System, or NUTS, brings the same concept to network automation. The big idea is that by incorporating unit tests into... Read more »
47 min
NANOG, or the North American Network Operation Group, is an organization committed to the continuing advancement of an open, secure, and robust Internet. At the NANOG Conference 95 in late October 2025, Ethan Banks chatted with Steve Feldman, a member of NANOG’s Board of Directors. Steve has been involved with NANOG since the very first... Read more »
56 min
How do you architect a Secure Access Service Edge (SASE) to provide critical security services to millions of endpoints distributed across the planet? How do you build such a service for scale, performance, and resiliency? One option is to build your own PoPs or use colocation facilities, run your own infrastructure stack, and connect everything... Read more »
58 min
On today’s episode, we take a break from one’s and zero’s for a discussion about starting a networking meetup. Our guest is Steinn “Steinzi” Örvar, who recently founded the ISNOG, a network operators’ group in Iceland. We quiz Steinzi about what worked and what didn’t. We also pick his brain for the nitty-gritty details about... Read more »
58 min
The architecture and tech stack of a Secure Access Service Edge (SASE) solution will influence how the service performs, the robustness of its security controls, and the complexity of its operations. Sponsor Fortinet joins Heavy Networking to make the case that a unified offering, which integrates SD-WAN and SSE from a single vendor, provides a... Read more »
59 min
Could an LLM or some kind of an AI-driven language model, such as a natural language interface, someday replace our beloved CLI? That is, instead of needing to understand the syntax of a specific vendor’s CLI, could a language model allow network operators to use plain language to get the information they need or the... Read more »
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