Jacob Robinson

Law of Code

About the show

Understand the legal layer of emerging technology. Conversations with top lawyers, regulators, and entrepreneurs on the laws and policy decisions shaping our future.

Newest episodes

Interview: What the 2026 Midterms mean for Crypto and AI, with Justin Slaughter

Nov 5, 2026 36 min

What do the 2026 midterm results mean for tech policy in the U.S.? Not necessarily a tech crackdown, according to Justin Slaughter, senior advisor at Paradigm. Justin explains why a wave this big scrambles the usual playbook, and what tech’s pitch to Democrats should be. This podcast also features Khurram Dara, Partner at Thompson Street, and Mike Katz, Partner at Manatt, Phelps & Phillips. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:25 AI data centers and the exit polls 2:18 Tech’s unhedged political bet 3:28 Why a tech crackdown isn’t a given 5:01 A generational turnover 6:04 Realignment 9:00 How tech should approach Democrats now 10:25 Why startups have the advantage 13:52 Should crypto batten down the hatches? 16:32 Will Democrats listen? 19:30 What happens at the SEC and CFTC 22:42 Lessons from swaps and Dodd-Frank 25:02 What derailed CLARITY 27:53 Bubbles 29:00 Inside the Biden admin on crypto 32:29 The lesson of the long 2016 34:19 The state attorneys general shift Thank you to the sponsors of this episode: the Decentralization Research Center, the Solana Policy Institute, the Hyperliquid Policy Center and the law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel. To learn more about CahillNXT, visit https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-ai-frontier-technology. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Interview: David Lat on private equity, AI & other legal trends

Nov 3, 2026 30 min

David Lat has watched the legal profession for 30 years: as a law student, a federal clerk and a prosecutor, then as the founder of Above the Law and now as the writer behind Original Jurisdiction, one of the most widely read newsletters on law and the legal profession. In this conversation, he explains how the profession has changed since he began covering it in the early 2000s. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:07 30 years of change in the legal profession 4:19 Private equity’s backdoor into law firms 6:35 How David uses AI 9:52 Is the fear of AI overblown? 11:29 Ranking the circuit courts 15:25 Interviewing with Justice Scalia 18:39 Crypto as a law school hypothetical 21:29 Regulation by enforcement and due process 21:59 Speech and debate 25:09 The most underrated legal skill Thank you to the sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Hyperliquid Policy Center, the Solana Policy Institute and the Decentralization Research Center. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Interview: Blockchains & the Bank Secrecy Act, with Rebecca Rettig, Omid Malekan and Michael Mosier

Oct 26, 2026 1 hr 2 min

Can traditional financial institutions use permissionless blockchains without being offside of the Bank Secrecy Act? What happens if a bank unknowingly pays a fee to a sanctioned validator? By the end of this episode, you'll understand the history of the Bank Secrecy Act, how OFAC actually enforces sanctions and a new paper's nine-part framework for how banks can use public blockchains and stay compliant. You'll hear from the paper's three co-authors: Rebecca Rettig (Chief Operating Officer and Chief Legal Officer of Jito Labs, of counsel at Arktouros)Omid Malekan (adjunct professor at Columbia Business School) and Michael Mosier (co-founder of Arktouros and former acting director of FinCEN). This episode is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their global payments platform. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:24 Problems they see 5:39 The router principle 7:13 What permissionless systems get right 11:28 Lessons from the open internet 14:23 Credible neutrality 19:20 A brief history of the BSA 23:55 What OFAC enforcement looks for 26:16 Treasury, Iran and open networks 28:29 The SEC's innovation exemption 34:03 Compliance belongs at the app layer 37:04 "The government will never allow it" 39:39 The paper's nine-part framework 44:12 Network layer vs. transaction layer 46:28 The $50,000 canoe 48:02 Safety, soundness and final settlement 50:29 Why this matters for national security 51:27 Privacy 58:07 What this means for DeFi Thank you to Cahill Gordon & Reindel for sponsoring this podcast. Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute, the Hyperliquid Policy Center and the Decentralization Research Center for supporting the podcast. The full paper is here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7343938. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers....

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The newest 50 of 203 episodes

Interview: What the 2026 Midterms mean for Crypto and AI, with Justin Slaughter

Nov 5, 2026 36 min

Interview: David Lat on private equity, AI & other legal trends

Nov 3, 2026 30 min

Interview: Blockchains & the Bank Secrecy Act, with Rebecca Rettig, Omid Malekan and Michael Mosier

Oct 26, 2026 1 hr 2 min

#211 - Is AI Distillation Illegal?

Oct 4, 2026 46 min

Anthropic calls some AI distillation illicit. But is distillation illegal? The answer may depend less on what you do with AI outputs than on how you accessed them. This episode is a deep dive into how courts might rule. We cover X v. Bright Data, what OpenAI's and Anthropic's terms say about who owns AI outputs, why Anthropic's own fair use arguments could be turned against it and what the labs will likely do next. Thank you to the presenting sponsor of this episode, Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their payments platform. You'll hear from the three Variant co-authors of one of the sharpest papers on the topic: Daniel Barabander, investment partner and chief legal officer at VariantSabina Beleuz, deputy general counsel at VariantElijah Fox, investor at VariantRead their article here: https://variant.fund/articles/license-distill-law-distillation-anthropic/. Timestamps: 0:00 What is distillation? 1:52 Intro 3:01 Why distillation matters 5:44 X v. Bright Data 7:50 Access vs. selling 10:40 Copyright preemption 11:25 Why X doesn't own your posts 13:49 From scraping to distillation 16:12 Who owns AI outputs? 19:38 Is all distillation illicit? 24:10 Anthropic's fair use problem 25:05 Bartz v. Anthropic 26:42 Predictions 28:41 Distilling the distillers 29:21 Selling services, not tokens 32:34 Antitrust 37:06 Tech moves exponentially, law sublinearly 40:47 Humans, AI and personhood 45:15 Final thoughts Thank you as well to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute, the Hyperliquid Policy Center and the Decentralization Research Center. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this...

#210 - Cyber Letters of Marque

Sep 22, 2026 47 min

Cybercrime costs Americans an estimated $200 billion a year, and AI is supercharging it. The U.S. government's newest response is one of the oldest tools in the Constitution, one Congress hasn't used since the War of 1812. This episode covers letters of marque and privateers: their role in the American Revolution, how prize courts and bonds kept privateers from becoming pirates, and the White House memo that trends toward implementing a modern version for cyberspace. Sponsors: This episode is presented by Altitude, visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their global payments platform. Sponsors also include: The law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel. Cahill is hosting Confluence 2026, its flagship emerging tech conference, in New York City on September 24, 2026. You can apply to attend here: https://www.cahill.com/confluence2026. Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center for supporting the podcast. Guests: Chris Perkins (President of Franklin Crypto at Franklin Templeton, Naval Academy graduate and Marine Corps veteran)Ari Redbord (Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs and former federal prosecutor)Michael Coates (CISO of the Solana Foundation and previously Twitter's first CISO)Camelia Lopez Shoemaker (Holland & Knight, former DOJ)Nelson Rosario (Rosario Tech Law) Timestamps: (0:00) The $200 billion problem (2:16) The Model T and the FBI (4:18) Pig butchering (7:03) History (7:50) The high seas and the internet (8:30) Marque vs. reprisal (11:35) American Revolution (14:08) Building a (private) navy (17:25) The Constitution (18:40) The Paris Declaration (20:34) Pirates or privateers? (22:12) The five-part system (22:40) Why government can't scale (23:30) The Fourth Amendment (25:26) Suspicious Activity Reports (28:23) Recent memorandum (30:40) The bond (32:34) The blockchain (33:49) Latest from U.S. gov't (34:56) The attribution problem (36:30) Who's involved today? (37:49) The Beacon Network (39:16) Pre-clearance and due process (...

#209 - Vaults

Sep 8, 2026 1 hr 59 min

Vaults might be finance's next trillion-dollar opportunity. But what are they? How do they work? What regulation might apply? You'll hear from the creator of crypto vaults, Andre Cronje (Flying Tulip, Yearn), alongside builders Adrian Cachinero Vasiljevic (Steakhouse Financial) and Charles St. Louis (Ethereum Foundation). You'll also hear from SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce and top lawyers Lewis Cohen (Cahill), Tuongvy Le (Veda Labs), Rodrigo Seira (Cooley) and Linda Jeng (Aave). Thank you to the presenting sponsor of this episode, Altitude (altitude.xyz/law), a payments platform for the next generation. This should be the internet's best podcast on vaults. You don't need to be a lawyer, developer or finance expert to follow along. Timestamps: (0:00) Intro (4:27) What is a vault? (9:34) History of onchain vaults (11:55) The first vault, with Andre Cronje (21:05) The SEC's early interest (22:30) Investment contracts and Howey (31:28) Notes and Reves (37:10) The strategist (48:54) The curator (58:30) Investment company? (1:12:40) Investment adviser? (1:20:00) Separately managed accounts (1:30:30) Custody rules (1:55:43) What's next Thank you as well to the law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel for sponsoring this podcast. If you'd like to join Cahill's flagship emerging tech conference, Confluence, you can apply here: https://www.cahill.com/confluence2026. Thank you as well to the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center for supporting the podcast. Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice.

Interview: SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce on Reg Crypto

Sep 1, 2026 42 min

Commissioner Hester Peirce joins the podcast to discuss Regulation Crypto Assets, as well as secondary market trading, DePIN and vaults. If you haven't listened to the full Reg Crypto explainer, that's episode 208. This episode is presented by Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:22 Secondary transactions 3:23 Promises and representations 5:05 Essential managerial efforts 8:27 Regulatory arbitrage 10:29 Form TR 16:59 Existing token projects and Form TR 18:27 Compliance costs 21:48 Secondary markets 24:12 DePIN 27:02 Vaults 35:31 Accredited investors 40:25 Tokens and equity Thank you to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. On Thursday, September 24, 2026, CahillNXT will host Confluence 2026, its flagship conference, in New York City. This year's theme, Leading the NXT Frontier, brings together regulators, institutional investors, founders, policymakers and industry leaders to examine digital assets, market structure, regulation and the emerging technologies transforming financial markets. To register your interest, email events@cahill.com. Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/yFFN66e8iy8shQkAA Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Commissioner Peirce's views are her own and do not necessarily represent those of the SEC or her fellow Commissioners. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

Interview: The GRANITE Act, explained by Preston Byrne

Aug 28, 2026 22 min

The GRANITE Act is a two-and-a-half-page bill designed to stop foreign governments from censoring Americans online. Preston Byrne, the Managing Partner at Byrne & Storm, has spent over a decade advising tech companies on free speech questions. His work was instrumental in the introduction of the GRANITE Act in the U.S. House of Representatives on August 27, 2026. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:10 How foreign governments censor Americans 3:34 The origins of sovereign immunity 6:40 197 demands, 4 refusals 8:58 Sovereign immunity in the courts 10:58 The GRANITE Act shield 12:37 The GRANITE Act sword 17:20 Where GRANITE stands in the states, House and Senate This episode is presented by Altitude. Visit altitude.xyz/law to understand why. Thank you to the other sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. Preston's Blog Post: https://prestonbyrne.com/2026/08/28/rulligranite/ GRANITE Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/10174/text?s=1&r=1&hl=granite Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#208 - Reg Crypto

Aug 25, 2026 1 hr 28 min

What is Regulation Crypto Assets? An SEC-led rule proposal that allows projects to raise capital in the U.S. by selling tokens. That's the short answer. The long answer is this podcast. By the end of this episode, you'll understand why these rules were needed, what they say and what could still be tweaked before they become law. This episode is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn more about their financial operating system. You'll hear from leading lawyers, almost all of whom are cited in the footnotes of the SEC's own proposal: Lewis Cohen, partner at Cahill Gordon & ReindelSarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi DigitalGabe Shapiro, co-founder and CEO of MetaLeXRodrigo Seira, partner at CooleyMiles Jennings, general counsel at a16z cryptoAndrew Hinkes, partner at Winston Taylor Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:17 How we got here 6:53 Solving two problems 10:21 Reg A, Reg CF and Reg D 12:10 Five subparts of Reg Crypto 14:12 Who will use these? 18:08 The Startup Exemption 19:35 Rule 103 disclosures 21:03 LBRY and silence 30:14 Secondary markets and Telegram 34:13 The Fundraising Exemption 42:21 Why Reg A and Reg CF failed 48:14 Rule 400: Exit 50:23 Third-party problems 57:34 Under-promising 1:02:08 Essential managerial efforts 1:12:09 The state of crypto 1:15:13 State law questions 1:20:37 What's next? Thank you to the sponsors of this episode: Cahill Gordon & Reindel, the Solana Policy Institute and the Hyperliquid Policy Center. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://forms.gle/yFFN66e8iy8shQkAA. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect thos...

Interview: OSC CEO Grant Vingoe on Crypto in Canada, Part II

Aug 10, 2026 1 hr 13 min

Grant Vingoe is the CEO of the Ontario Securities Commission, Canada's largest securities regulator. Grant explains Canada's approach to crypto and why he sees a careful, incremental approach as a strength. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:55 From 30 years in New York to running the OSC 5:49 How the CSA and Canada's provincial regulators fit together 9:01 The crypto contract 12:34 Grant's first exposure to crypto 16:09 The gamification of financial markets and prediction markets 21:22 Making crypto safer for Canadians, from ETFs onward 26:30 Stablecoins 29:52 The Stablecoin Act and federal regulators 35:02 The $30,000 purchase limit 38:18 How industry can better engage regulators 45:02 Canada's brain drain question 50:34 Modernizing the regulation of public companies 54:17 Permissionless finance 1:01:13 Accredited investor rules Thank you to our other sponsors: McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/ Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

#207 - Crypto in Canada

Aug 10, 2026 1 hr 0 min

How does Canada regulate crypto? This podcast answers that in less than 60 minutes. You'll hear from Grant Vingoe, CEO of the OSC, Eric Richmond, CEO of Coinbase Canada, the Bank of Canada's Anne Butler, McCarthy's Lori Stein, Osler's Matt Burgoyne, Evan Thomas, Dr. Ryan Clements of the ASC and Blair Wiley of Wealthsimple. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit ⁠https://altitude.xyz/law⁠ to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:42 Tax 4:53 AML Rules 8:06 Securities 12:00 Investment contracts 16:13 Quadriga's collapse 23:00 The Crypto Contract 34:29 World's first Bitcoin ETF 38:23 Stablecoins 46:47 Where Canada could play offense: DeFi, perps and tokenization 52:53 The speed problem Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Thank you to our other sponsors: McCarthy Tétrault LLP, with which I am co-hosting a Crypto in Canada event on August 12, 2026 in Toronto: https://luma.com/89qnrnah Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP: https://www.osler.com/en/expertise/services/digital-assets-and-blockchain/ Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: ⁠https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology⁠ Solana Policy Institute: ⁠https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/⁠ Hyperliquid Policy Center: ⁠https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/⁠ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

Interview: Legora's Kyle Poe on the Future of AI & Law Firms

Aug 6, 2026 30 min

Kyle Poe is a former BigLaw partner and currently VP of Legal Innovation and Strategy at Legora, a legal AI startup valued at $5.6 billion. Kyle explains why he sees a generational reordering happening in the legal profession, how firms are best institutionalizing partner knowledge as IP, and where the moat exists for lawyers as AI grows in ubiquity. Law of Code is presented by Altitude, visit https://altitude.xyz/law to learn why. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:56 The billable hour and the incentive problem inside firms 2:36 Institutionalizing partner knowledge as firm IP 4:02 Why partner buyouts are accelerating 5:56 Why AI is different from the internet and email 9:31 How top firms are operationalizing AI 12:35 Building innovation teams from the top down 14:37 More lawyers or fewer? The future of demand 19:20 Grinders, minders and finders 22:10 What lawyers should be asking about AI 25:13 Legora's moat Thank you to our other sponsors: Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP: https://www.cahill.com/practices/litigation-digital-assets-and-emerging-technology Solana Policy Institute: https://www.solanapolicyinstitute.org/ Hyperliquid Policy Center: https://hyperliquidpolicy.org/ Sign up for the free Law of Code newsletter at lawofcode.fm.

#206 - How lawyers are using AI in 2026

Jul 27, 2026 1 hr 31 min

By the end of this episode, you'll understand how lawyers are actually AI maxxing in 2026, and how you can, too. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:58 Why it's the best time to be a lawyer 3:03 Hallucinations and cognitive surrender 5:33 Quality over efficiency 8:13 Why AI upends legal work 15:20 60% of contracts filed to EDGAR have mistakes 20:04 How LLMs actually work 25:59 Zero data retention, explained 29:16 The privacy risk beyond training 39:16 How to prompt 47:03 Michael Showalter's AI-native litigation stack 55:27 Spellbook's Compare to Market Feature 1:03:10 Building a regulatory agent 1:09:50 The judgment crisis for junior lawyers 1:12:15 Cooley's AI training method You'll hear from 10 people at the cutting edge of legal AI: Zack Shapiro, Founder and Managing Partner at Rains LLPMolly Abraham, General Counsel at CoinbaseSujit Raman, Chief Legal Officer at TRM LabsMichael Showalter, Founder of Showalter PLLCErich Dylus, attorney, programmer and creator of CamoTextAaron Kelly, General Counsel and open source AI expertDavid Wang, Chief Innovation Officer at CooleyScott Stevenson, CEO of SpellbookJustin McCallon, CEO of StrongSuitSamson Enzer, Partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel This episode is presented by Altitude, visit altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system. Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QAcE1sQAKZIkma20DbyB5frgKdiK8UB6Fkb6CwaVP1I/edit Sponsors: Thank you to the Hyperliquid Policy Center and Solana Policy Institute for supporting this podcast. To get in touch with the Cahill team about how any issues discussed in this episode apply to your situation, email mtomsky@cahill.com. Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their...

#205 - Software & Free Speech

Jul 13, 2026 2 hr 0 min

When should software lose free speech protections? This podcast covers software and the First Amendment, tracing the history from Cold War export controls to recent restrictions on advanced AI models. My goal: the internet's most comprehensive explainer on speech and code, from cryptography to cryptocurrency to AI. In this episode, you'll hear from leading experts on the legal layer of software and free speech: Peter Van Valkenburgh, Executive Director at Coin CenterLaz Pieper, Director of Research at Coin CenterEugene Volokh, First Amendment scholar and Fellow at the Hoover InstitutionJane Bambauer, Brechner Eminent Scholar at the University of FloridaPreston Byrne, Managing Partner at Byrne & StormSam Enzer, partner at Cahill Gordon & Reindel and co-chair of CahillNXTBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding when code is protected speech, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.) This episode is presented by Altitude, visit Altitude.xyz/law to learn more about their financial operating system. Timestamps: 0:00 Anthropic AI export controls 6:17 Introduction 9:39 Reading the First Amendment 10:38 Eugene Volokh on his First Amendment philosophy 13:42 The machine gun sculpture: speech vs function 19:24 Peter Van Valkenburgh interview 25:50 The Cold War, munitions list and Phil Zimmermann 29:57 The Bernstein case 34:53 Strict scrutiny 38:48 The Corley case 49:17 Sorrell, Stevens and where the Supreme Court is heading 53:25 Preston Byrne on the Supreme Court's AI case 57:23 Defense Distributed and 3D-printing 1:04:00 Where publication ends and professional conduct begins 1:15:20 Lowe v. SEC and the agency line 1:45:45 Compelled speech, the IRS broker rule and tobacco labels 2:04:17 Laz Pieper on Sorrell and third-party liability 2:11:29 Preston Byrne on the GRANITE Act and foreign censorship Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. htt...

#204 - Prediction Markets

Jun 30, 2026 2 hr 55 min

Prediction markets are a multi-billion dollar industry, led by companies like Kalshi and Polymarket. They are also controversial. Some want them banned and believe they are operating illegally, while others see them as invaluable truth-seeking markets. This podcast is a multi-hour deep dive on prediction markets, starting from conclave betting in 15th century Rome to the CFTC's proposed rulemaking on Rule 40.11 earlier this month. My goal: The internet's most comprehensive explainer on prediction markets. By the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding prediction markets, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.) Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:40 16th century papal betting (Koleman Strumpf) 11:13 Insider trading rules on prediction markets (Bobby DeNault) 16:20 The Google search insider case and Rule 180.1 (Sam Enzer) 27:38 Why prediction markets matter (Chris Giancarlo) 33:20 Election betting in America38:35 Iowa Electronic Markets and the 1992 no-action letter 45:56 Dodd-Frank, swaps and the Special Rule 48:08 Senator Lincoln on Super Bowl and Derby contracts 55:49 Parlays as swaps (Josh Sterling) 1:01:23 CFTC's exclusive jurisdiction (Thania Charmani) 1:07:30 Perspective on the CFTC's NPRM (Michael Passalacqua) 1:14:55 Exceptions that swallow the rule (Paul Grewal) 1:27:25 How prediction markets actually work 1:36:05 Kalshi's probability-weighted fee structure 1:38:18 Cardi B and the resolution problem (Dustin Gouker) 1:45:05 Oracles, UMA and decentralized resolution (Jeff Amico) 1:51:55 Inside the Ninth Circuit case 2:07:49 The CFTC's June 2026 proposed rulemaking (Brad Bourque, Stefan Schropp) 2:19:06 Kalshi's landmark 2024 win 2:23:05 PASPA, Murphy v. NCAA (Daniel Wallach) 2:45:14 The case against banning prediction markets (Bobby DeNault) Newsletter: Stay updated on emerging tech law for free at lawofcode.fm. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or...

#203 - How the SEC Writes Crypto Rules

Jun 15, 2026 59 min

How do regulators actually write the rules for crypto? SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce and Taylor Lindman, Chief Counsel of the SEC's Crypto Task Force, take us inside the process, recorded at the SEC offices in Washington, D.C. We cover CLARITY Act rulemaking, lessons from Dodd-Frank, principles-based regulation and navigating the risks of decentralized projects. If you want to understand how an agency like the SEC actually works, this episode is for you. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:20 Commissioner Peirce's philosophy on capital markets 5:04 Rulemaking at the SEC 6:48 The SEC's divisions, explained 8:27 How the Crypto Task Force is staffed 10:37 Lessons from Dodd-Frank 13:10 Legal artisans 15:15 The Clarity Act deadlines 18:55 Decentralized intermediaries 20:56 Principles-based vs prescriptive regulation 24:49 Tackling difficult crypto questions 26:23 Leveraging AI for data review 29:46 "Come in and register" under this SEC 33:50 SEC & CFTC collaboration 35:52 Re-engaging the crypto industry 40:00 Crypto Task Force & the Clarity Act 45:54 The SEC's non-crypto priorities 48:41 Avoiding another regulation-by-enforcement era 57:14 Thank you to Sam Enzer, Lewis Cohen and Cahill, plus a shoutout to Day One Law and Nick Pullman Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠: https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here: https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#202 - Perps

Jun 1, 2026 2 hr 13 min

Over a trillion dollars worth of perps are traded every month, yet 99% people have never heard of them. Fewer understand how they work. This podcast is a multi-hour deep dive on perps, starting from the history of grain futures in Chicago to a historic CFTC announcement on Friday, May 29, 2026. My goal: The internet's most comprehensive explainer on perps. In this episode, you'll hear from the world's leading experts on the legal layer of perps: Hyperliquid Policy Center CEO Jake Chervinsky and policy counsel Brad Bourque BrettHarrison, CEO of ArchitectKatherine Kirkpatrick Bos, general counsel of StarkWareRyne Miller, partner at Morrison FoersterMike Frisch, partner at Croke Fairchild David Shafer, lawyer at CoinbaseBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the top percentile for understanding perps, regardless of where you're starting from. (You just might need to listen twice. There's a lot here.) Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:04 What is a perp? 7:18 Why futures contracts exist 8:15 Liquidity fragmentation 11:01 History of U.S. futures 17:08 Richard Nixon, the gold standard and financial futures 21:27 Birth of the CFTC 24:27 Robert Shiller's 1992 paper 30:09 Price convergence 32:00 The funding rate 43:41 Oracles and manipulation risk 47:39 Are perps swaps or futures? 52:44 A @ChairmanSelig clip on perps 54:02 The DCM framework 59:16 DCMs, DCOs and FCMs explained 1:04:55 History of crypto perps (BitMEX, FTX) 1:13:00 How Hyperliquid works 1:25:41 CFTC's historic announcements on May 29, 2026 1:35:00 Fireside with @jchervinsky and @BradBourque of @HyperliquidPC Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views ex...

#201 - The CLARITY Act

May 18, 2026 1 hr 53 min

What is the CLARITY Act? Maybe the most important piece of financial legislation in a generation. This podcast explains the history of U.S. digital asset regulation, why regulation-by-enforcement failed and what the CLARITY Act addresses, plus remaining steps for this to become law. Guests: Lewis Cohen, Partner & Co-Chair of CahillNXT's Digital Assets & Emerging Technology practiceMiles Jennings, Head of Policy & General Counsel for a16z cryptoSarah Brennan, general counsel at Delphi VenturesKyle Bligen, Head of Policy and Public Affairs at the Decentralization Research CenterMiller Whitehouse-Levine, CEO at Solana Policy InstituteDugan Bliss, Head of Litigation at BinanceBy the end of this episode, I promise you'll be in the 99th percentile for understanding CLARITY, regardless of whether you're a lawyer, builder or operator. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:46 Explaining market structure 6:05 Regulatory distortion 10:43 Predecessor bills 13:35 Senate Banking markup takeaways 15:46 SEC & CFTC 20:37 The Securities Act of 1933 23:07 The Howey Test 25:26 The Ineluctable Modality of Securities Law 28:51 SEC enforcement 32:32 Why SEC rulemaking isn't enough 37:36 Titles of CLARITY 40:00 Digital commodities 47:29 Investment contract principles 54:10 Promoters: originators 58:18 Promoters: related persons 1:04:13 Token taxonomy 1:11:02 Ancillary asset requirements 1:19:34 The certification process 1:28:32 Remaining hurdles for CLARITY 1:34:50 Stablecoin yield 1:38:45 Ethics 1:45:50 Tax consequences 1:48:54 Thanking people working on the bill, such as @SenLummis, @gillibrandny, @SenatorTimScott, @SenatorHagerty, @SenThomTillis, @MarkWarner, @SenRubenGallego, @Sen_Alsobrooks, their staffs & many, many others. Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠⁠Click here⁠⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Dis...

#200 - Money Transmission & Developer Liability

May 4, 2026 1 hr 49 min

Can the U.S. government send a software developer to prison for writing and publishing code? That's the question at the center of the Tornado Cash and Samourai Wallet prosecutions, and every crypto founder, builder and investor should understand the answer. This deep-dive episode walks through the history of U.S. money transmission law, how the DOJ is applying it to non-custodial software developers, what the Roman Storm verdict actually means, and what new legislation could change in 2026. Guests: Peter Van Valkenburgh — Executive Director, Coin CenterAmanda Tuminelli — Chief Executive Officer, DeFi Education FundBrian Klein — Partner at Cooley, lead defense attorney for Roman StormJake Chervinsky — Hyperliquid Policy Center (cameo)This is the most comprehensive podcast I've ever done. Welcome to Law of Code, Season 2. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:18 What's at stake? 4:40 Which developers are at risk 6:03 Custodial vs. non-custodial 9:32 What is a money transmission license? 9:47 Steamships, the telegraph & Western Union 12:14 The Bank Secrecy Act 13:38 Section 1960 15:26 The Patriot Act 19:39 FinCEN's 2013 and 2019 guidance 24:42 OFAC sanctions Tornado Cash 27:30 How Tornado Cash works 30:48 Coin Center v. Yellen 32:24 DOJ indicts Roman Storm, Roman Semenov, Roman Sterlingov & Samourai Wallet developers 35:15 The Van Loon win 40:33 Developer losses 43:48 Bad facts make bad law 48:46 Brian Klein on Roman Storm's case 50:50 The Brady letter 57:00 Michael Lewellen sues for answers 1:09:24 The Blanche memo 1:18:46 The Galeotti speech 1:26:13 Catch-22 for developers 1:30:03 The chilling effect on U.S. innovation 1:33:48 Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act 1:38:03 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act 1:45:28 What's next Nothing in this podcast is legal or investment advice. Newsletter: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter soon: you can ⁠⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode...

#186 - AI & Legal Privilege

Apr 20, 2026 41 min

Does attorney-client privilege exist when you use ChatGPT or Claude? Should it? Jacob Robinson sits down with Mike Katz, Partner at Manatt Phelps & Phillips, to examine whether attorney-client privilege, work product or any analogous protection applies when non-lawyers ask AI chatbots legal questions. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Background ➡️ 1:47 — What is attorney-client privilege? ➡️ 2:44 — Policy reasons for narrowing privilege ➡️ 3:30 — The Upjohn case (1981) ➡️ 4:34 — Privilege vs. work product doctrine ➡️ 5:17 — Three elements to establish privilege ➡️ 7:23 — Consumer AI terms of service and confidentiality ➡️ 8:09 — How you lose privilege ➡️ 11:30 — War stories ➡️ 15:39 — Vibe lawyering ➡️ 19:09 — Could Anthropic, OpenAI be liable? ➡️ 22:48 — The Heppner case (2026) ➡️ 26:26 — The Kovel doctrine (1961) ➡️ 28:14 — Incognito mode & deleted chats ➡️ 30:59 — The policy question ➡️ 34:00 — This is not a new problem ➡️ 37:05 — Are lawyers coal or horses? Jevons Paradox Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact. Also: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠⁠. https://www.lawofcode.fm/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? ⁠Click here⁠. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#185 - Why Circle should freeze USDC, with Austin Campbell

Apr 13, 2026 43 min

When does U.S. law require Circle to freeze USDC? It's a question many are asking after a series of wallets were frozen in connection to a sealed civil case, and again after Solana's Drift Protocol was drained of $285 million. Jacob Robinson is joined by Austin Campbell, founder of Zero Knowledge Consulting and adjunct professor at Columbia Business School, for a masterclass on the legal framework governing stablecoin freezes. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Intro ➡️ 2:00 — The March 2026 freeze of 16 wallets tied to a sealed civil case ➡️ 4:31 — How bank freezes actually work ➡️ 7:27 — Circle's legal obligation to freeze ➡️ 9:40 — Does Circle's terms of service even apply to secondary holders? ➡️ 11:24 — The privity problem ➡️ 13:20 — The five-piece legal framework that functions like a safe harbor for institutions freezing assets ➡️ 16:43 — DeFi's second-order exposure to asset freezes ➡️ 18:29 — Can DeFi adapt? ➡️ 21:03 — Circle's response to the Drift exploit ➡️ 22:34 — DeFi and the legal system ➡️ 24:27 — Bitcoin as the ideologically consistent alternative ➡️ 28:18 — Why people want intermediaries with liability ➡️ 31:04 — The Drift exploit: why Circle should have frozen USDC ➡️ 36:34 — The exploit difficulty ➡️ 38:27 — Real world assets on chain: the DeFi trilemma Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm that provides strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact. Resources: 📓 Circle's April 10, 2026 statement on the Drift exploit and USDC freeze authority by Dante Disparte📓 ZachXBT's X thread on Circle's USDC freeze historyAlso: I'm re-launching the Law of Code newsletter as the world's shortest legal newsletter! You can ⁠stay updated on emerging tech law for free here⁠. https://lawofcode.beehiiv.com/ Any feedback on this episode? Or how to improve the podcast? Click here. https://forms.gle/W4d2a5aHuLJjuNdn7 Disclaimer: This podcast is for i...

#184 - Transaction Denied: Rainey Reitman on Financial Censorship

Apr 7, 2026 27 min

What are the risks of allowing financial institutions to cut off access to the economy for lawful but controversial activity? Rainey Reitman is a civil liberties advocate and the author of Transaction Denied, a comprehensive investigation into debanking, financial censorship, and the growing role of financial institutions in regulating speech. She previously worked at the Electronic Frontier Foundation and co-founded the Freedom of the Press Foundation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:20 — Why cash functions as a civil liberty (privacy + censorship resistance) ➡️ 3:21 — What inspired Transaction Denied and early experiences with debanking ➡️ 5:20 — The Chelsea Manning Support Network PayPal freeze ➡️ 8:27 — Operation Chokepoint and the rise of financial censorship ➡️ 11:25 — “Banking while Muslim” and over-compliance with sanctions ➡️ 15:08 — The Patriot Act and incentives for financial surveillance ➡️ 17:12 — Financial intermediaries and the power to block transactions ➡️ 17:48 — Bitcoin, custodians, and whether crypto solves debanking ➡️ 19:33 — Why financial censorship affects everyone—not just targeted groups ➡️ 21:58 — NRA v. Vullo and the limits of government pressure on banks Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📚 Pre-order Transaction Denied 📖 The Patriot Act 👩‍⚖️ Supreme Court decision in National Rifle Association v. Vullo Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#183 - A founder's playbook for new SEC crypto guidance

Apr 6, 2026 39 min

What should crypto founders know about the SEC and CFTC's joint interpretive guidance on securities law? Joining to discuss is Joe Doll (@Sh0edog), Counsel at Day One Law and previously General Counsel at a crypto startup. Joe wrote a detailed breakdown of the guidance aimed at founders, which we walk through from start to finish. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:00 — Intro ➡️ 0:07 — Why the Howey Test exists ➡️ 3:11 — Why tokens are not necessarily securities ➡️ 7:47 — The five-category token taxonomy explained ➡️ 8:45 — Digital commodities ➡️ 12:13 — The four-factor "statement" test ➡️ 15:57 — Why the guidance might chill disclosure ➡️ 19:32 — Joe's proposal for a minimum attachment period ➡️ 23:30 — Fungibility and the token sales problem ➡️ 28:29 — Decentralization, disclosure obligations, and the CLARITY Act ➡️ 29:41 — Why the attachment theory better serves the policy goals of securities law ➡️ 31:51 — Airdrops ➡️ 37:53 — The CLARITY Act's control framework ➡️ 38:58 — Linux, Red Hat, and the case for immutability ➡️ 43:12 — Equity versus token value ➡️ 43:25 — The story behind the handle @sh0edog ➡️ 45:04 — Decentralized communities Resources: 📓 Joe Doll's article breaking down the SEC and CFTC interpretive guidance for founders📓 SEC and CFTC joint interpretive release on the application of securities laws to crypto assetsDisclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship. Obviously.

#182 - Lewis Cohen explains new SEC & CFTC token guidance

Mar 30, 2026 49 min

When does transacting in a crypto asset become a securities transaction? The SEC and CFTC recently issued an interpretation clarifying how the federal securities laws apply to certain crypto assets and transactions involving crypto assets. Joining to discuss that is Lewis Cohen, co-chair of Cahill’s digital assets and emerging technologies practice and one of the leading experts on the application of U.S. securities laws to crypto. Timestamps: ➡️ 2:26 — Why a token can be a non-security asset, but still sold in a securities transaction➡️ 4:21 — The SEC’s “attachment and separation” concept explained➡️ 7:22 — Secondary market transactions and the limits of existing case law➡️ 11:15 — Why third parties may be exposed to securities law risk➡️ 14:09 — Who counts as an “issuer” in crypto—and why the concept breaks down➡️ 17:56 — What qualifies as a promise or representation under Howey➡️ 23:27 — Why disclosure—not classification—is the real solution➡️ 25:46 — Can an investment contract “detach” once promises are fulfilled?➡️ 30:19 — Civil liability, enforcement risk, and second-order market effects➡️ 34:42 — The danger of bifurcated markets and uneven information access Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📓 SEC’s interpretive release on the application of security laws to crypto assets and transactions ✍️ Lewis Cohen's client alert on the recent guidance Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#181 - Fixing crypto's banking bottleneck with Aaron Brogan

Mar 23, 2026 42 min

Can new “payment accounts” with the federal reserve solve the crypto industry’s banking problem? Aaron Brogan is the founder and managing partner of Brogan Law, where he advises crypto companies on regulatory strategy, transactions, and policy. He also works with industry groups like the Blockchain Association on comment letters and rulemaking related to crypto banking access and financial regulation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:22 — What a Federal Reserve master account is and why crypto firms want one➡️ 6:34 — “Skinny” payment accounts: what they include—and what they leave out➡️ 7:16 — The core flaw: no interest, no overdraft protection, and balance constraints➡️ 10:52 — Why incremental policy wins matter in Washington➡️ 12:16 — How agency posture—not law—has shifted dramatically since 2024➡️ 13:09 — Advising clients amid uncertainty: baseline law vs. regulatory signals➡️ 16:11 — Why now may be the best time to take regulatory risk in crypto➡️ 16:44 — The biggest risk: a political shift triggered by a “black swan” event➡️ 18:36 — Onshoring vs. offshore structures: why many crypto projects still leave the U.S.➡️ 21:53 — Prediction markets, state vs. federal power, and a likely Supreme Court fight Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📃 Aaron’s newsletter on so-called “skinny” master accounts, with a discussion of his comment letter on behalf of the Blockchain Association 📖 The Federal Reserve's RFI on Reserve Bank Payment Accounts ✉️ “Brogan Law is Built for War” newsletter by Aaron Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#179 - This month in crypto law: March 2026

Mar 16, 2026 44 min

What were the most important legal and regulatory developments in crypto this month? In this episode, we review developments from stablecoin rulemaking and DeFi liability cases to the ongoing fight over prediction markets. Jonathan Schmalfeld is Director of Policy at The Digital Chamber, where he focuses on crypto policy, digital asset legislation, and regulatory developments in Washington. Timestamps ➡️ 1:07 — SEC guidance allowing broker-dealers to apply a 2% capital haircut to payment stablecoins➡️ 4:37 — OCC’s GENIUS Act implementation proposal and the debate over stablecoin yield restrictions➡️ 11:14 — The Promoting Innovation and Blockchain Development Act and developer liability protections➡️ 17:27 — Federal court dismissal of claims against Uniswap and what it means for DeFi developers➡️ 22:55 — How Kalshi enforced insider trading rules in its CFTC-regulated prediction markets➡️ 27:37 — Kalshi’s preliminary injunction against Tennessee regulators and the federal preemption fight➡️ 31:15 — Why prediction market litigation could eventually reach the U.S. Supreme Court➡️ 36:25 — Institutional adoption: Morgan Stanley custody plans, Kraken’s Fed master account, and crypto banking licenses➡️ 40:24 — Operation Chokepoint 2.0 and proposed rules eliminating “reputational risk” in bank supervision➡️ 43:23 — Why competition between crypto and traditional finance is accelerating Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📃 Updated SEC Division of Trading & Markets FAQ ✍️ Hester Peirce statement on updated SEC FAQ 📃 OCC Notice of proposed rulemaking for implementation of the GENIUS Act 📓 Promoting Innovation in Blockchain Development Act of 2026 📃 Kansas City Fed statement on Kraken’s fed master account Disclaimer: Thi...

#178 - What a crypto lawyer learns from campaigning for New York Attorney General with Khurram Dara

Mar 11, 2026 47 min

What happens when a crypto policy lawyer decides to run for one of the most powerful regulatory positions in the United States — New York Attorney General? Khurram Dara is a former policy team member at Coinbase and regulatory policy principal at Bain Capital Crypto. After years working in crypto regulation and policy, he left the private sector to run for the Republican nomination for Attorney General of New York, focusing his campaign on reversing lawfare, regulatory overreach, and using the role of New York Attorney general to shape national policy. Timestamps ➡️ 1:24 — Coinbase, the SEC, and why regulation-by-enforcement pushed Dara toward politics➡️ 4:13 — Why state attorneys general have become “regulators of last resort”➡️ 9:30 — Running for office without prior political experience➡️ 11:31 — How statewide campaigns actually start: conventions, delegates, and ballot access➡️ 17:02 — Campaign execution: fundraising, messaging, and building a political operation➡️ 24:27 — What Dara learned about fundraising and donor dynamics➡️ 28:08 — What “lawfare” means and why it concerns the crypto industry➡️ 33:08 — The economic impact of regulation through litigation➡️ 37:40 — How state AG offices could be reformed➡️ 45:45 — Why state-level crypto regulation may be the next battleground Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 👨‍⚖️ SEC Dismissal of Civil Enforcement Against Coinbase 📄 Press release for Attorney General James’ lawsuit against Trump family financial business 📄 Press release for Oregon lawsuit against Coinbase Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an att...

#177 - Explaining the misnomer of 'Code is Law' with Andrew Hinkes, Andrea Tosato, and Carla Reyes

Mar 9, 2026 42 min

If blockchain systems can automatically enforce transactions, does that mean code itself determines legal rights and ownership? Carla Reyes and Andrea Tosato are professors researching digital assets at the SMU Dedman School of Law and Andrew Hinkes is a partner at Winston & Strawn LLP. Together they authored the paper “Code Is Not Law,” which examines why legal rights in digital assets ultimately depend on law rather than technological systems. Time Stamps: ➡️ 1:30 — Stablecoin yield debates and why banks are back at the negotiating table ➡️ 4:24 — Trade associations vs. decision-makers in White House crypto meetings ➡️ 7:43 — Ethics provisions and constitutional challenges shaping negotiations ➡️ 12:48 — Network token frameworks, ancillary assets, and draft bill trends ➡️ 14:38 — DeFi intermediaries: software providers vs. financial actors ➡️ 17:44 — Disclosure quality vs. disclosure volume in market structure drafts ➡️ 21:38 — Legislation vs. agency guidance vs. litigation: three regulatory paths ➡️ 24:30 — What retail users would actually notice if market structure passes ➡️ 30:08 — Global competition: MiCA, Singapore MAS, and U.S. brain drain risk ➡️ 43:51 — Regulatory moats, incumbents, and the future of innovation Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📓 "Code is not law" research paper 🎧 Episode #75 - UCC Article 12 Amendments with Drew Hinkes and Andrea Tosato Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#176 - In the weeds on U.S. market structure regulation with Gerald Gallagher

Feb 25, 2026 49 min

What role are ethics provisions and stablecoin yield debates, playing in shaping — or potentially delaying — U.S. crypto market structure legislation? Gerald Gallagher is General Counsel at Sei Labs and co-host of the Crypto in America podcast, where he covers crypto policy, regulation, and legal developments in Washington. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:30 — Stablecoin yield debates and why banks are back at the negotiating table ➡️ 4:24 — Trade associations vs. decision-makers in White House crypto meetings ➡️ 7:43 — Ethics provisions and constitutional challenges shaping negotiations ➡️ 12:48 — Network token frameworks, ancillary assets, and draft bill trends ➡️ 14:38 — DeFi intermediaries: software providers vs. financial actors ➡️ 17:44 — Disclosure quality vs. disclosure volume in market structure drafts ➡️ 21:38 — Legislation vs. agency guidance vs. litigation: three regulatory paths ➡️ 24:30 — What retail users would actually notice if market structure passes ➡️ 30:08 — Global competition: MiCA, Singapore MAS, and U.S. brain drain risk ➡️ 43:51 — Regulatory moats, incumbents, and the future of innovation Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📓 The latest market structure discussion draft (banking committee) 📓 ⁠The GENIUS Act Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#175 - On-chain fundraising with Gabe Shapiro of MetaLex

Feb 23, 2026 48 min

Can companies raise capital and issue securities directly on-chain without intermediaries or lawyers? Gabe Shapiro is the founder of MetaLeX and a longtime crypto lawyer focused on tokenization, legal automation, and decentralized capital markets. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:20 — Stablecoins, DeFi “kill switches,” and the new crypto narrative➡️ 5:44 — Why custodial assets create governance power over blockchains➡️ 11:04 — Tokenized securities vs. today’s DTCC intermediary model➡️ 21:36 — How MetaLeX enables direct issuer-to-investor capital raises➡️ 23:12 — Private keys as legal signatures and atomic deal execution➡️ 27:58 — Privacy concerns and on-chain legal infrastructure➡️ 33:43 — Low-KYC accreditation and composable legal credentials➡️ 34:23 — Reversibility, bearer instruments, and issuer controls➡️ 39:34 — TradFi, L2s, and whether Wall Street is “eating crypto”➡️ 43:38 — What regulators are missing: CFTC derivatives rules and UCC reform Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📄 Dragonfly Capital's Article "Ethereum is now unforkable, thanks to DeFi" 📄 Shapiro's Article "cyberSign: easy legal agreements on Ethereum" Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#174 - Crypto's market structure moment, with Bill Hughes of Consensys

Feb 16, 2026 47 min

Crypto’s current policy window in Washington is a rare opportunity to pass market structure legislation. What happens if the industry walks away from a compromise now? Bill Hughes, Senior Counsel and Director of Global Regulatory Matters at Consensys, joins the podcast to discuss crypto market structure and stablecoin policy. Timestamps ➡️ 1:10 — Why Agriculture and Banking Committees shape crypto legislation➡️ 4:20 — How agencies influence drafting behind the scenes➡️ 6:40 — Stablecoin yield and illicit finance: the real sticking points➡️ 9:20 — DeFi regulation debates➡️ 17:00 — Is the Clarity Act likely to pass in 2026?➡️ 18:00 — Ethics provisions and political tensions➡️ 20:13 — Coinbase’s strategy➡️ 26:35 — Stablecoin yield fights ➡️ 33:00 — Legislative timelines ➡️ 45:36 — What to watch next Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📓 The latest market structure discussion draft (banking committee) 📓 ⁠The GENIUS Act Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#173 - Understanding token compensation with Jessica Furr and Brandon Ferrick

Feb 11, 2026 32 min

How should employees, contractors, and companies think about token compensation? What are the legal, tax, and governance risks? Jessica Furr is a lawyer focused on crypto compensation, governance, and market structure, and the author of Read the Fine Print on Token Compensation. Brandon Ferrick is a crypto and securities lawyer who advises companies on token incentive plans, equity compensation, and regulatory compliance. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:28 — Why tokens are not equity (and why people assume they are) ➡️ 3:32 — Why token compensation exists alongside equity ➡️ 6:39 — What documents to look for in a token comp arrangement ➡️ 9:24 — Are tokens securities? How lawyers actually approach classification ➡️ 11:57 — Restricted Token Awards (RTAs) vs. Restricted Token Units (RTUs) ➡️ 13:28 — How tax treatment drives RTA vs. RTU decisions ➡️ 16:49 — What an 83(b) election is and why it matters for tokens ➡️ 21:16 — What employees should negotiate and clarify upfront ➡️ 25:45 — Emerging trends in token compensation structures ➡️ 28:28 — Where token compensation could go next Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📕 Jessica and Brandon's paper Read the Fine Print: Token Compensation 📄 Rule 701 of the Securities Act 📓 Dragonfly Compensation Report Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#172 - Interview on the legal side of prediction markets with Samir Patel

Feb 9, 2026 27 min

How do prediction markets actually work, and why are state gaming regulators and the CFTC battling over who has jurisdiction to regulate? Samir Patel is an attorney at Holland & Knight, where he focuses on gambling law, prediction markets, and the intersection of crypto, derivatives, and state gaming regulation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:02 — What prediction markets are and how binary contracts work ➡️ 2:51 — Prediction markets vs. sports gambling: what’s legally different? ➡️ 4:02 — Are prediction markets actually “on-chain”? ➡️ 7:37 — The CFTC vs. state gaming regulators: who has jurisdiction? ➡️ 9:55 — Swaps, self-certification, and the Commodities Exchange Act ➡️ 12:06 — How courts are splitting on federal preemption ➡️ 14:39 — Why the CFTC’s silence matters more than the lawsuits themselves ➡️ 18:58 — DCMs vs. FCMs: mapping the regulatory plumbing ➡️ 22:00 — Prediction markets as information tools, not just bets ➡️ 23:30 — What this litigation could mean for crypto and DeFi governance Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📓 Commodity Exchange Act (CEA) 📓 CFTC Rule 40.11 📄 CFTC Staff Advisory Withdrawal of Prior Guidance on Events Contracts Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#171 - Why the CFTC is the best regulator for crypto with former Chairman Chris Giancarlo

Feb 4, 2026 36 min

What could the future of U.S. crypto regulation look like from the CFTC—and how should regulators approach tokenization, prediction markets, and stablecoins as digital finance moves on-chain? Chris Giancarlo is Senior Counsel for Corporate and Financial Services at Willkie Farr & Gallagher and the former Chair of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, where he oversaw the regulation of futures, options, and swaps markets, including the launch of Bitcoin futures. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:15 — Advice for new CFTC Chair Mike Selig ➡️ 3:06 — Why crypto inverts the CFTC’s traditional regulatory model ➡️ 6:53 — How the SEC and CFTC should divide authority over digital assets ➡️ 8:54 — Why the commodity vs. security distinction still matters ➡️ 15:13 — DTCC’s no-action relief and the future of tokenized market infrastructure ➡️ 19:27 — Will TradFi absorb crypto—or will crypto reshape TradFi? ➡️ 21:46 — Prediction markets, federal preemption, and state resistance ➡️ 27:40 — Why prediction markets need regulation, not suppression ➡️ 29:42 — Stablecoins, privacy, and exporting U.S. values through digital dollars Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources 📺 Recording of the CFTC / SEC Joint Event on Harmonization 📓 GENIUS Act 📄 DTCC No Action Letter Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#170 - The future of crypto custody with Sarah Helena Brennan and Jay Stolkin

Jan 28, 2026 44 min

Why are crypto custody rules for registered investment advisors due for modernization — and what could a future-proof framework look like? Sarah Helena Brennan is the General Counsel for Delphi Ventures, and Jay Stolkin is the Deputy General Counsel at Multicoin Capital. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:05 — Why the custody rule matters for crypto ➡️ 1:27 — The SEC’s safeguarding proposal and why this paper was written ➡️ 5:58 — What the custody rule and “qualified custodians” actually require ➡️ 10:26 — Why digital assets challenge legacy custody assumptions ➡️ 14:47 — Fees, loss of utility, and concentration risk under the status quo ➡️ 18:21 — The case for optionality and a flexible custody framework ➡️ 22:53 — The five core tenets of cryptoasset safeguarding ➡️ 25:50 — Lessons from the privately offered securities exemption ➡️ 28:27 — On-chain verification, auditors, and real-time transparency ➡️ 32:16 — Where regulators may push back—and what comes next Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📄 Sarah and Jay’s Whitepaper📓 SEC Agency Rule List Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#169 - Drew Hinkes shares 2026 crypto law predictions

Jan 26, 2026 34 min

What should the industry be watching in 2026? Drew Hinkes is a partner at Winston & Strawn and a longtime crypto lawyer whose work spans DeFi, market structure, tokenization, and digital asset regulation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:53 — Tokenization, RWAs, and institutional crypto’s next phase ➡️ 4:00 — Market structure gaps and DeFi’s unresolved treatment ➡️ 6:09 — AML creep and the risk to permissionless finance ➡️ 8:15 — Why DeFi depends on interfaces—and where regulation can bite ➡️ 12:28 — Grey areas after market structure: why uncertainty remains ➡️ 17:05 — Equity vs. tokens and what token holders are actually promised ➡️ 23:57 — Tokenization vs. TradFi capture: competition or consolidation ➡️ 29:03 — The biggest systemic risks to crypto in 2026 ➡️ 31:17 — Crypto’s most underappreciated source of resilience Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📓 Latest Senate Banking Committee Market Structure Draft 📓 Latest Senate Agriculture Committee Market Structure Draft 📄 SEC No-Action Letter to DTCC on Tokenization Services Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#168 - December crypto regulatory developments in review with Jonathan Schmalfeld

Dec 29, 2025 43 min

In this episode, Jacob Robinson and Jonathan Schmalfeld break down the biggest U.S. crypto law and policy developments of the month, from the SEC’s moves toward bringing public markets on-chain to major CFTC moves on derivatives, prediction markets, and collateral. The conversation also covers crypto tax proposals, DeFi governance disputes, banking access, privacy, quantum risk, and why regulators increasingly view crypto not as an exception, but as core financial infrastructure. Jonathan Schmalfeld is the Policy Director at The Digital Chamber and the author of the Off the Blockchain+ newsletter, where he analyzes crypto regulation, market structure, and emerging policy trends. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:03 — SEC market structure reforms and DTC no-action relief ➡️ 7:54 — CFTC allows crypto and tokenized treasuries as collateral ➡️ 8:45 — Prediction markets and state gambling laws ➡️ 13:23 — Crypto tax proposals: wash sales, staking, and airdrops ➡️ 16:03 — Aave, DAO governance, and token vs. equity conflicts ➡️ 21:48 — GENIUS Act implementation and stablecoin interest debates ➡️ 27:33 — The end of Operation Choke Point 2.0 and legislative fixes ➡️ 31:02 — DeFi liquidations, market manipulation, and public debate ➡️ 34:20 — Quantum computing risk and Bitcoin’s long-term resilience ➡️ 38:46 — Michael Selig confirmed as CFTC Chair Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📄 SEC’s No Action Letter to the DTC ✉️ CFTC Digital Assets Pilot Program Announcement 📓 Draft of the PARITY Act 📄 FDIC Notice of Proposed Rulemaking for Stablecoins ✉️ ⁠Jonathan’s Off the Blockchain+ Newsletter⁠ Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Lis...

#167 - Is Canada Ready to Regulate Stablecoins?

Dec 22, 2025 25 min

In this episode, Jacob Robinson speaks with Odun Olowookere about Canada’s proposed Stablecoin Act, the constitutional and regulatory challenges it raises, and why critics argue it may reduce clarity rather than enhance it. Odun Olowookere is a legal scholar at York University and the co-author of a submission to Canada’s House of Commons critiquing the draft Stablecoin Act, alongside Darrell Duffie of Stanford University and Andreas Veneris of the University of Toronto. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:05 — Why Canada’s draft Stablecoin Act has drawn concern ➡️ 2:13 — The Act’s stated goal: monetary sovereignty and dollarization risk ➡️ 3:16 — Why stablecoins are not explicitly defined as payment instruments ➡️ 5:20 — How Canada’s constitutional structure complicates stablecoin regulation ➡️ 8:41 — Canada’s blanket prohibition on interest and how it differs from GENIUS ➡️ 9:46 — Expanded “payment function” language and why it alarms critics ➡️ 10:33 — How wallets, validators, and even users could be swept into regulation ➡️ 16:14 — Data security obligations and the Bank of Canada’s technical capacity ➡️ 18:33 — Prudential regulation concerns and undefined reserve requirements ➡️ 21:48 — Is Canada regulating stablecoins too early? Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📓 The Canadian Stablecoin Act Draft Text 📄 Odun, Andreas Veneris, and Darrell Duffie’s Written submission to the House of Commons in reply to The Stablecoin Act Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#166 - Can DeFi scale without sacrificing neutrality or permissionlessness?

Dec 17, 2025 38 min

DeFi has always promised trust without intermediaries, but as the ecosystem matures, that promise is being stress-tested by hacks, institutional risk limits, and regulatory pressure. To unpack whether DeFi can scale without sacrificing neutrality or permissionlessness, Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, General Counsel of StarkWare, and Jessi Brooks, General Counsel & Chief Compliance Officer at Ribbit Capital, joined the podcast to discuss their paper “Trust Without Intermediaries: A Programmable Risk Management Framework for the Future.” The paper sparked controversy across the DeFi community, with critics arguing it could open the door to protocol-level compliance or re-intermediation. In this episode, Katherine and Jessi explain that the paper proposes something different. Timestamps: ➡️ 01:31 — Why write this paper? ➡️ 07:55 — Institutional DeFi and why one-size-fits-all doesn’t work ➡️ 09:43 — Compliance as a commercial choice, not a mandate ➡️ 11:38 — Risk scoring in DeFi ➡️ 15:37 — Technical de-risking ➡️ 18:23 — Optional evolution ➡️ 20:59 — Not protocol-level compliance ➡️ 25:49 — Opt-in DeFi ➡️ 30:44 — Lessons from the backlash and public debate & much more. Sponsor: : ⁠⁠ This episode is brought to you by ⁠⁠⁠Day One Law⁠, a boutique law firm helping crypto startups navigate complex legal challenges. Subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠Day One’s free monthly newsletter⁠⁠⁠ for legal and regulatory updates. Resources: 📄 Trust Without Intermediaries: A Programmable Risk Management Framework for the Future Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#165 - Key developments in U.S. crypto law & policy with Jonathan Schmalfeld

Dec 15, 2025 40 min

In this episode, Jonathan Schmalfeld and Jacob Robinson walk through the biggest crypto law and policy developments of the month of November. Jonathan is the Policy Director at The Digital Chamber, where he leads federal and state advocacy on digital asset regulation. Timestamps: ➡️ 1:19 — Senate Agriculture Committee releases market structure draft ➡️ 3:22 — Why DeFi and AML sections remain blank ➡️ 3:52 — Chair Atkins’ speech and push for taxonomy ➡️ 6:32 — Treasury & IRS guidance on staking ETFs ➡️ 10:39 — Uniswap’s fee switch vote and winding down ➡️ 13:53 — Coinbase reincorporates from Delaware to Texas ➡️ 16:19 — MEV exploit trial ends in mistrial ➡️ 23:36 — Samurai Wallet sentencing and liability risks ➡️ 26:55 — DOJ’s Tornado Cash filing and self-custody issues ➡️ 30:29 — Digital Chamber launches State Network ➡️ 33:37 — OCC guidance allowing banks pay gas fees ➡️ 36:50 — What to watch next in GENIUS implementation Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#164 - Greg Xethalis on market structure legislation, history of crypto ETFs

Dec 9, 2025 38 min

Greg Xethalis, General Counsel at Multicoin Capital joins the podcast to discuss the history of ETFs, what we can learn from the first Bitcoin ETF, and the interplay between the CLARITY Act and RFIA. This episode also covers the challenges of disclosure in decentralized systems, and why principles-based regulation is essential for the next phase of crypto innovation. Timestamps ➡️ 1:27 — The origin story of ETFs ➡️ 3:00 — SEC dynamics behind the first ETF ➡️ 7:45 — The first Bitcoin ETF ➡️ 15:34 — Market structure: CLARITY Act + RFIA as complementary frameworks ➡️ 20:52 — Disclosure: a challenge in crypto regulation ➡️ 33:34 — Who should be responsible for token disclosures long-term? Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by the Decentralization Research Center (DRC), a nonprofit think tank advocating for decentralization in emerging technologies. Learn more at thedrcenter.org. Resources: 📘 Project Crypto Speech — Chair Paul Atkins 📄 FinCEN 2013 Virtual Currency Guidance 📓 CLARITY Act – functional maturity framework 📕 Responsible Financial Innovation Act (RFIA) – ancillary asset test 🏛️ Greg's Senate Banking Committee testimony Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#163 - TradFi's push on stablecoin regulation, J.W. Verrett's response

Dec 1, 2025 22 min

After the GENIUS Act was enacted, the U.S. Treasury issued an Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to gather public and industry input before drafting implementing regulations. Some of the most influential submissions came from major banking and traditional finance associations, outlining how they believe U.S. stablecoin regulation should look. J.W. Verret, Associate Professor of Law at the Antonin Scalia Law School at George Mason University, submitted a detailed rebuttal pushing back on the banks’ expansive interpretation of statutory authority and their call to ban “indirect yield.” Timestamps: ➡️ 1:02 — Why this rulemaking matters ➡️ 2:55 — Why JW felt compelled to respond ➡️ 4:48 — How agencies use comments ➡️ 5:17 — What counts as ‘interest’ or ‘yield’? ➡️ 7:00 — The push to regulate affiliates and third-party providers ➡️ 10:34 — Why a prohibition on ‘indirect yield’ matters ➡️ 14:55 — Zcash, privacy tech, and Roman Storm ➡️ 18:00 — What happens next in GENIUS rulemaking ➡️ 19:11 — Do stablecoins drain bank deposits? Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📓 GENIUS Act 📄 Joint Trades Letter (ABA + ICBA + BPI coalition) ✉️ J.W. Verret’s Rebuttal Letter Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#162 - Crypto ETF staking safe harbor explained by tax expert Jason Schwartz

Nov 25, 2025 29 min

Staking is now officially on the table for U.S. crypto ETFs. In this episode, I’m joined by Jason Schwartz (@CryptoTaxGuyETH), a tax partner at CahillNXT, Cahill’s digital assets and emerging technology practice. Jason specializes in tax issues relating to digital assets, financial products, securitizations, lending, treaties, and fund structures. We break down Treasury and the IRS’s new safe harbor that allows crypto ETPs to stake without being treated as domestic corporations, and the questions that follow. Timestamps ➡️ 00:00 — Intro ➡️ 00:41 — Sponsor: Day One Law ➡️ 01:04 — What does the new Treasury/IRS safe harbor actually allow? ➡️ 03:30 — Why staking created a legal grey area for ETFs ➡️ 06:18 — Why “grantor trust” classification matters so much ➡️ 09:55 — The key safe harbor requirements ➡️ 14:40 — Who this matters for: investors, issuers, and markets ➡️ 19:22 — Could LST-based ETFs outperform Safe Harbor ETFs? ➡️ 23:10 — Four big open questions: uncertainties the IRS didn’t settle ➡️ 28:12 — What comes next for staking ETFs, Treasury, and IRS guidance & much more. Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: ⁠https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: 📄 Cahill Client Alert: IRS and Treasury Issue Safe Harbor for Staking by Crypto ETPs 🎧 Previous episode with Jason Schwartz (#151) 🌐 CahillNXT 💼 Jason on X: @CryptoTaxGuyETH Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal or investment advice. Views expressed by the guest are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of their employers. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship.

#161 - Jason Gottlieb on litigation trends, relevant statutes of limitations

Nov 17, 2025 43 min

In this episode, Jason Gottlieb, Chair of Morrison Cohen’s Digital Assets Department and White Collar & Regulatory Enforcement Practice Group, breaks down the litigation trends shaping crypto today. Timestamps: ➡️ 0:44 — Why litigation is shifting from regulators to private disputes ➡️ 3:37 — Statute of limitations: the five-year vs. ten-year reality ➡️ 8:14 — Inside the revamped Morrison Cohen Crypto Litigation Tracker ➡️ 12:41 — How judges are learning (and misunderstanding) crypto ➡️ 18:03 — The importance of amicus briefs in crypto cases ➡️ 20:52 — Stablecoin-freezing disputes and why issuers keep getting dragged in ➡️ 26:41 — Jurisdiction battles: extraterritoriality, comity & serving by NFT Sponsor: Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm founded by Nick Pullman. Nick and his team at Day One provide strategic legal counsel to startups, crypto projects, and Web3 innovators. ⁠You can get in contact with them via this link⁠: https://www.dayonelaw.xyz/#contact Resources: Morrison Cohen Crypto Litigation Tracker: cryptotracker.morrisoncohen.com Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.

#160 - DoubleZero's historic no-action letter from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission

Nov 9, 2025 31 min

In this episode, Jacob is joined by DoubleZero’s General Counsel, Mari Tomunen, and Cooley’s Connor Tweardy to unpack the U.S. SEC’s Division of Corporation Finance’s landmark no-action letter to DoubleZero, a decentralized physical infrastructure (DePIN) project that became the first crypto initiative in over five years to secure such relief. Timestamps: ➡️ 01:20 – Why DoubleZero engaged with the SEC ➡️ 03:00 – Communicating DePIN to regulators ➡️ 04:40 – Making decentralization “lawyer-friendly” ➡️ 07:00 – Why the token's status was crucial ➡️ 08:20 – Compliance by design ➡️ 10:00 – The DoubleZero Foundation’s role ➡️ 11:45 – How the SEC evaluated “managerial efforts” ➡️ 13:20 – How an international footprint shaped dialogue with regulators ➡️ 15:30 – Lessons for other projects ➡️ 18:00 – The SEC’s “efforts balancing” test ➡️ 22:00 – Why discretionary control and passive income models raise red flags ➡️ 26:00 – Designing compliance into your protocol ➡️ 30:00 – Advice for teams pursuing regulatory clarity Sponsor: Day One Law. ⁠⁠ This episode is brought to you by ⁠⁠⁠Day One Law⁠, a boutique law firm helping crypto startups navigate complex legal challenges. Subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠Day One’s free monthly newsletter⁠⁠⁠ for legal and regulatory updates. Resources: No-Action Letter: https://www.sec.gov/files/corpfin/no-action/doublezero-final-conformed-092625.pdf Cooley LLP's blog post: https://www.cooley.com/news/coverage/2025/2025-09-29-doublezero-secures-no-action-relief-from-sec Disclaimer: The information in this podcast is provided for educational and informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice. Listening to this episode or contacting the guests does not create an attorney-client relationship. For advice regarding your specific situation, please consult your own legal counsel.

#159 - On-chain transfer agents and compliance, with Fairmint CEO Joris Delanoue

Oct 27, 2025 33 min

Joris Delanoue, Co-CEO of Fairmint, joins the podcast to discuss how his SEC-registered transfer agent has already issued and managed over $1B of equity on-chain. We explore the legal distinctions between mirrored tokens and natively on-chain securities and how compliance can be built directly into smart contracts. Timestamps: ➡️ 00:00 — Intro ➡️ 00:46 — Sponsor: Day One Law ➡️ 01:09 — Why bring equity on-chain? ➡️ 04:28 — Turning cap tables into smart contracts ➡️ 09:39 — Registering as an SEC transfer agent ➡️ 12:28 — How blockchain changes the “source of truth” ➡️ 16:09 — Fixing accredited investor rules ➡️ 22:26 — Compliance by automation vs. intermediation ➡️ 26:38 — Lessons from the Paperwork Crisis ➡️ 28:40 — Addressing human error ➡️ 30:20 — Protecting ownership in a tokenized world ➡️ 32:02 — What’s next for Fairmint & more. Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by ⁠Day One Law⁠ — a boutique law firm helping crypto startups navigate complex legal challenges. Resources: 📜 Open Cap Table Coalition Follow Joris on X: @Joris_DLN 🗒️ On-chain accreditation

#158 - Masterclass on the GENIUS Act, stablecoin regulation with Austin Campbell

Oct 10, 2025 49 min

Stablecoins are no longer a side story — they’re on the path to becoming the backbone of global digital finance. To unpack what the GENIUS Act means for the U.S. dollar, stablecoin issuers, and banking competition, I sat down with Austin Campbell, Founder and Managing Partner of Zero Knowledge Consulting and an Adjunct Professor at Columbia Business School. Austin previously led Stable Value Trading at JP Morgan, co-headed Digital Asset Rates Trading at Citi, and served as Head of Portfolio Management at Paxos. In this episode, Austin explains the key provisions of the Genius Act, the misconceptions around the “interest” prohibition, and how competition between currencies could expand freedom — and reshape the global economy. Timestamps: ➡️ 00:00 — Intro ➡️ 00:46 — Sponsor: Day One Law ➡️ 01:09 — Austin’s path from Wall Street to crypto ➡️ 05:40 — Why the Genius Act is the most important bipartisan financial law since Dodd-Frank ➡️ 10:31 — Stablecoins as global infrastructure for the U.S. dollar ➡️ 15:14 — Key pillars of the Genius Act: reserves, insolvency, and compliance ➡️ 26:20 — Privacy, enforcement, and what Genius gets right ➡️ 37:19 — The “interest” prohibition — and the exception most people missed ➡️ 45:00 — What comes next for stablecoin issuers and U.S. regulators & much more. Sponsor: ⁠⁠ This episode is brought to you by ⁠⁠Day One Law, a boutique law firm helping crypto startups navigate complex legal challenges. Subscribe to ⁠⁠Day One’s free monthly newsletter⁠⁠ for legal and regulatory updates. Resources: 📄 Crypto and the Evolution of Capital Markets paper. 🎧 Law of Code episode #145 with Tuongvy Le (@TuongvyLe12). 📰 Austin's Zero In Newsletter 🌐 Zero Knowledge Consulting Disclaimer: Nothing in this podcast is legal advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guest and do not necessarily reflect those of their organizations. Always consult your own counsel before making legal decisions.

#157 - History of the DUNA, with David Kerr of Cowrie

Sep 10, 2025 49 min

DUNA — the Decentralized Unincorporated Nonprofit Association — is one of the most important new legal structures for crypto governance. To understand its history, tax implications, and jurisdictional trade-offs, I sat down with David Kerr, founder of Cowrie, a crypto-native advisory firm specializing in U.S. tax compliance and entity structuring. David was instrumental in drafting the Wyoming DUNA Act, and in this episode we discuss the evolution of UNAs, why Wyoming stepped up, the tax and compliance realities facing projects, and what this means for the future of DAOs in the U.S. Timestamps: ➡️ 00:00 — Intro ➡️ 00:46 — Sponsor: Day One Law ➡️ 01:09 — Origins of the DUNA: why unincorporated associations matter ➡️ 03:32 — Early U.S. entity law, UNAs, and Wyoming’s first adoption in 1993 ➡️ 07:53 — Why some states resisted hybrid entity forms ➡️ 12:30 — Nonprofit ≠ tax exempt: clearing up misconceptions ➡️ 16:15 — How DAOs and protocol treasuries fit with the DUNA model ➡️ 20:45 — Legislative drafting in Wyoming and lessons from Texas ➡️ 27:07 — Secretary of State & local support ➡️ 29:16 — When does a U.S. DUNA make sense for international projects? ➡️ 31:54 — Tax trade-offs: advantages, disadvantages, and compliance ➡️ 38:54 — Treasury management, W-8/W-9s, and reporting obligations ➡️ 41:56 — The DUNA as “where governance goes” ➡️ 47:39 — Building Cowrie: tax, filings, advisory, and administrator services ➡️ 49:11 — Crypto’s “LLC moment” & more. Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by ⁠Day One Law⁠ — a boutique law firm helping crypto startups navigate complex legal challenges. Subscribe to ⁠Day One's free monthly newsletter⁠ for legal updates. Resources: 📄 Wyoming DUNA Act 📜 Cowrie’s overview of UNAs & DUNAs

#156 - DOJ enforcement and developer liability, with Amanda Tuminelli of the DeFi Education Fund

Sep 8, 2025 22 min

DOJ Criminal Division Chief Matthew Galeotti recently stated: “Merely writing code, without ill intent, is not a crime.” He emphasized that developers of neutral tools should not be held liable for someone else’s misuse. Joining me to unpack what this means for developers is Amanda Tuminelli, Executive Director of the DeFi Education Fund. We discuss the DOJ’s remarks, DEF’s role in shaping the conversation, and what comes next for developer protections, market structure legislation, and global DeFi policy. Timestamps: ➡️ 00:00 — Intro ➡️ 00:46 — Sponsor: Day One Law ➡️ 01:09 — DOJ’s statement: “writing code is not a crime” ➡️ 03:17 — How the Tornado Cash trial might have been different ➡️ 05:15 — DEF’s advocacy on Section 1960 ➡️ 07:05 — Remaining gray areas: sanctions, facilitation & intent ➡️ 10:30 — How developers can show good faith reliance ➡️ 12:25 — Where developer protections may land in market structure bills ➡️ 14:30 — DEF’s next priorities: Roman Storm, market structure, SEC engagement ➡️ 17:11 — Defining “facilitate” and why rulemaking could help ➡️ 19:08 — Global impact of U.S. leadership on DeFi ➡️ 20:57 — Stablecoins, GENIUS Act, and regulatory momentum ➡️ 21:41 — Final thoughts on clarity and innovation & more. Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Day One Law — a boutique law firm helping crypto startups navigate complex legal challenges. Subscribe to Day One's free monthly newsletter for legal updates. Resources: 📄 DOJ remarks by Matthew Galeotti in Jackson, WY 📜 DEF coalition letter on developer protections 📬 Contact: info@defieducationfund.org Disclaimer: Nothing in this podcast is legal advice. The views expressed are those of the host and guest and do not necessarily reflect those of their organizations. Always consult your own counsel before making legal decisions.

#155 - Anchorage Digital's Kevin Wysocki on the Future of U.S. Crypto Policy

Sep 4, 2025 27 min

Sponsor: This episode of the Law of Code podcast is brought to you by Day One Law, a boutique corporate law firm for founders and funds in crypto. Learn more at ⁠dayonelaw.com⁠. The regulatory winds in Washington have shifted dramatically, and Anchorage Digital has been in the middle of it all. Kevin Wysocki, Head of Policy at Anchorage Digital, joins the podcast to discuss: 01:07 – White House crypto report & GENIUS signing 02:20 – Anchorage as the first federally chartered digital asset bank 03:20 – Stablecoins, de-banking 05:08 – Institutional demand post-GENIUS 07:03 – Partnering to on-shore stablecoin issuance 10:36 – Market structure legislation: custody, vertical integration & yield 14:06 – Timeline for Senate and House bills 15:58 – Bipartisan engagement on Capitol Hill 18:33 – Policy sticking points & compromises ahead 20:18 – Market maturity tests & Anchorage’s stance 21:48 – Cross-border custody & protecting self-custody 23:25 – Taxes, tokenization & national security on the horizon 26:22 – Bankruptcy remoteness & why custody matters Kevin is a Capitol Hill veteran, having worked for the House Financial Services Committee, Rep. Andy Barr, and Rep. Tom Emmer, before moving into government affairs at Meta and now leading policy efforts for the first federally chartered digital asset bank. Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be construed as legal or investment advice.

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Created by: Jacob Robinson
Status: Active
Latest episode: Nov 5, 2026
Episodes: 203
Release period: Weekly
Avg. episode length: 54 min
Explicit: No
Language: English

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