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Charlie & Sabba

Napkin Math

A Entrepreneurship , Business and Technology podcast

#88 in Entrepreneurship · 🇿🇦
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About the show

Join Sabba Keynejad (co-founder of VEED.io) and Charlie Ward (founder of Ramen Club, Ramen Space & Cosy) as they dive deep into the world of startups, AI, and the latest tech trends. These two legends of the London indie scene bring their no-nonsense, real-world insights to help founders, builders, and indie hackers navigate the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. Expect candid conversations, actionable takeaways, and the occasional hot take on where the future of business is headed. Whether you're bootstrapping your way to success or scaling your next big idea, Napkin Math is your go-to podcast for unfiltered discussions on what it really takes to win in the startup game.

Newest episodes

Is Software Dead? The Moats That Still Matter After AI

57 min

AI coding has made software cheap and fast to build. So what actually protects a business now? Sabba and Charlie go through every major moat and test it against AI: SEO, distribution, network effects, switching costs, brand, real-world relationships, regulation, hardware and proprietary data. Charlie’s hot take is that AI agents are quietly breaking network effects. Then they run through Hamilton Helmer’s 7 Powers and talk about which moats a startup can realistically build today. Along the way: Tally Forms, Higgsfield, OpenTable, Blockbuster vs Netflix, and a free cleaning service that films your home to train robots. Timestamps:00:00 Intro00:28 Why AI broke the software moat05:36 SEO and distribution12:36 Network effects vs AI agents21:50 Switching costs and brand28:28 Real-world moats: relationships, regulation, hardware37:00 Data and scarce resources40:50 Hamilton Helmer’s 7 Powers51:48 Which moats survive AI

Inside San Francisco’s AI Gold Rush: Moats, Harnesses & Opus 5.5

19 min

We spent a week in San Francisco at peak AI hype: speaking at conferences, attending OpenAI’s Dev Day, and visiting founders’ offices in Palo Alto. Here’s everything we learned. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro0:33 Everyone is building the same thing6:02 Value is extracted via capabilities11:40 What a harness means in 202618:53 Outro

$1M Startup Ideas - 3 Frameworks

11 min

In this video, I share 3 practical frameworks for discovering startup ideas with proven market demand, backed by real-world examples from founders in Ramen Club, the founder community I run. I also break down the 3 common mistakes that stop promising ideas from taking off, and how founders can avoid them before investing their time, money, and energy. Timestamps👇  00:00 3 ways to find startup ideas00:42 Who I am00:53 Copy a competitor, add a spin03:28 Copy it into a new market05:41 Ride a rising trend07:33 Mistake 1: Fearing competition09:12 Mistake 2: Skipping market research10:47 Mistake 3: Not committing11:26 Bonus: Marketing intensity11:54 Outro

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All episodes

Is Software Dead? The Moats That Still Matter After AI

57 min

AI coding has made software cheap and fast to build. So what actually protects a business now? Sabba and Charlie go through every major moat and test it against AI: SEO, distribution, network effects, switching costs, brand, real-world relationships, regulation, hardware and proprietary data. Charlie’s hot take is that AI agents are quietly breaking network effects. Then they run through Hamilton Helmer’s 7 Powers and talk about which moats a startup can realistically build today. Along the way: Tally Forms, Higgsfield, OpenTable, Blockbuster vs Netflix, and a free cleaning service that films your home to train robots. Timestamps:00:00 Intro00:28 Why AI broke the software moat05:36 SEO and distribution12:36 Network effects vs AI agents21:50 Switching costs and brand28:28 Real-world moats: relationships, regulation, hardware37:00 Data and scarce resources40:50 Hamilton Helmer’s 7 Powers51:48 Which moats survive AI

Inside San Francisco’s AI Gold Rush: Moats, Harnesses & Opus 5.5

19 min

We spent a week in San Francisco at peak AI hype: speaking at conferences, attending OpenAI’s Dev Day, and visiting founders’ offices in Palo Alto. Here’s everything we learned. Timestamps: 0:00 Intro0:33 Everyone is building the same thing6:02 Value is extracted via capabilities11:40 What a harness means in 202618:53 Outro

$1M Startup Ideas - 3 Frameworks

11 min

In this video, I share 3 practical frameworks for discovering startup ideas with proven market demand, backed by real-world examples from founders in Ramen Club, the founder community I run. I also break down the 3 common mistakes that stop promising ideas from taking off, and how founders can avoid them before investing their time, money, and energy. Timestamps👇  00:00 3 ways to find startup ideas00:42 Who I am00:53 Copy a competitor, add a spin03:28 Copy it into a new market05:41 Ride a rising trend07:33 Mistake 1: Fearing competition09:12 Mistake 2: Skipping market research10:47 Mistake 3: Not committing11:26 Bonus: Marketing intensity11:54 Outro

How I Got First Users For My $100M Startup

28 min

How to get your first 100 paid customers with no audience, no money and no experience. Charlie on the brute-force phase behind VEED's first million users, the Y Combinator rejection that forced a paywall up in one weekend, and the napkin math for 100 users in a single day. Timestamps00:00  Intro00:28  Brute force03:42  75% marketing, 25% building06:29  Instant vs compounding channels09:57  The YC rejection11:09  The survey said no13:11  One line of copy15:31  Find one channel21:00  The real hack is intensity23:46  100 users in a day25:11  What I'd do today

$1M Scanner App Ideas

28 min

The identifier app category is quietly exploding and most people still haven’t noticed. Some of these apps are generating $1M–$20M in ARR. In this episode, we break down the full playbook: using keyword data to find the right niche, the “come for the snap, stay for the hobby” retention loop, and the 60-second onboarding flow that leads straight to a hard paywall. Timestamps: 00:00  Guess the revenue02:31  How to find the idea07:24  Come for the snap, stay for the hobby10:14  How they grow13:25  The hard paywall19:29  The problem with high-churn apps20:32  The unsexy version: $50M+ B2B25:38  What to build next

How Dyson Turned Vacuum Cleaners into a Billion Dollar Empire

56 min

In this episode, we break down how James Dyson, one of the world’s most iconic inventors and entrepreneurs, turned Dyson into a multi-billion-dollar company by questioning everyday products, embracing thousands of failed prototypes, and staying relentlessly obsessed with great engineering. Timestamps00:00 Introduction: James Dyson's startup story 03:20 From art school to entrepreneur  08:30 Reinventing the wheelbarrow (The Ballbarrow)  14:15 Inventing the bagless vacuum cleaner  22:00 Why incumbents rejected Dyson's innovation  30:05 Why customer research often fails innovators  39:25 The Dyson electric car that never launched  42:20 Startup lessons for the AI era  50:30 Final takeaways: Reinvention, resilience & long-term thinking

From $0 to $1M+: Inside Tiiny Host's Bootstrapped Journey with Elston Barretto

1 hr 8 min

Elston Baretto, founder of Tiiny Host, joins us to break down how he grew his drag-and-drop file hosting platform to 2M+ users with zero market research. We cover the SEO and PLG tactics that got him to $100K, the freemium/trial tweaks that pushed him past $1M, how AI tools like Claude Code reshaped his engineering workflow — and the wild side of running a hosting company, from phishing takedowns to an actual FBI subpoena. Timestamps:00:00 – Intro & origin story 09:08 – Journey to $100K (SEO, growth, churn) 32:02 – From $100K to $1M (PMF, hiring, pricing) 43:16 – AI's impact on engineering and growth 57:14 – Dark side of hosting: phishing, FBI, blacklists 1:09:14 – Advice for indie hackers & closing

How We Reinvented VEED for the AI Era

20 min

From building one of the first browser-based video editors to facing an existential threat from AI, Sabba breaks down the hard decisions, failed experiments, and strategic pivots that transformed VEED from a traditional SaaS company into a fast-growing AI platform. Timestamps:00:00 Reinventing VEED for the AI Era 02:08 AI Changed Video Creation Forever 03:32 Why Listening to Customers Can Be Dangerous 04:14 The Netflix Lesson 08:14 Building VEED's AI Video Model 09:54 Should Startups Build AI Models? 12:22 The MAGIC Framework 14:41 The Vibe Coding Boom 19:08 The Future of VEED 20:05 Outro

The Vibe Coding Gold Rush: 3 Ways to Make Your First Million

51 min

Three concrete ways to build a million-dollar business on the back of the vibe coding boom. Specialized AI coding tools, security, and education with live napkin math, real company examples, and keyword research throughout. Timestamps:00:00:00 - Intro & The Vibe Coding Opportunity00:03:27 - Way #1: Build a "Lovable for X" (Specialized Vibe Coding Tools)00:26:19 - Way #2: Vibe Coding Security00:34:12 - Way #3: Education & Training00:43:38 - Bonus: Discovery Layers & Living in the Future00:51:12 - Wrap-up & Listener Challenge

How Tally Hit $5M ARR by Staying Small & User-Obsessed

1 hr 8 min

Maria Martinez, co-founder of Tally — a bootstrapped form builder that hit over $5M ARR since 2020 — joins Sabba and Charlie to break down how she and her husband Philip built a profitable SaaS business in a fiercely competitive market. From a failed hotel marketplace idea (killed by Covid in Bangkok) to launching a Notion-inspired form builder and growing it entirely through product-led growth, Maria shares the unfiltered story of what it really takes to compete without venture capital, a sales team, or a marketing budget. Timestamps00:00:00 - Intro & Guest Welcome00:00:59 - What is Tally & The Origin Story00:07:48 - Competitive Landscape & Go-To-Market Strategy00:11:16 - Free Tier & Product-Led Growth00:27:00 - AI & LLM Discovery00:34:13 - User Feedback & Metrics00:54:27 - Life as Bootstrapped Co-founders00:58:00 - Challenges & Churn01:02:43 - Roadmap & Advice for Founders

How to Reduce Churn in Subscription Businesses

1 hr 7 min

A practical breakdown of churn: what it is, why it varies by market, how to tell good churn from bad churn, and the product, marketing, pricing, and activation moves that reduce it. The episode focuses on identifying sticky users, improving time to value, and designing free plans and workflows that convert better. Timestamps:00:00 - Intro to Churn 00:01:36 - What Churn Actually Means 00:04:15 - Good vs Bad Churn 00:10:45 - Different Types of Churn 00:12:47 - How to Reduce Churn 00:16:41 - Talking to Customers 00:24:11 - Workflow & ICP 00:26:07 - Marketing for Retention 00:34:21 - Free Plans & Pricing 00:38:32 - Activation & Time to Value 00:48:05 - Tactical Churn Fixes 00:56:43 - The Power of Negative Churn

How Yasser Bootstrapped Chatbase to $10M ARR in 3 Years

1 hr 1 min

Yasir, CEO and solo founder of Chatbase, joins Saba and Charlie on the Napkin Math podcast to break down how he bootstrapped an AI customer support platform from a PDF chatbot side project to $10M ARR in just 3 years — starting before ChatGPT even launched. He shares the real story behind going viral, hitting $1M ARR in 4 months, the chaos of early growth, why he stayed bootstrapped, and how he thinks about building durable AI "harnesses" in a world where models improve every few months. Timestamps:01:38 - Origin story — building before ChatGPT existed14:04 - 0 to $1M ARR in 4 months22:13 - Product evolution — PDF chatbot to B2B AI agent31:05 - Why brand makes every channel easier35:44 - What makes a great AI harness vs a mediocre one43:48 - Moats in the AI era52:43 - Bootstrapped vs raising — Yasir's decision56:15 - Path to AGI through harness improvements59:12 - Advice for new founders: operate like an agency

How Ben Pasternak took Sabba's App and made millions

50 min

A founder's stolen app, AI image gold rushes, and why London might just be the next Silicon Valley — all on the back of a napkin. Timestamps:00:00 - Intro00:41 - The stolen app story08:54 - Lessons from the App Store11:36 - Vibe shuffles & business opportunities20:00 - Vibe coding education24:36 - ChatGPT image model28:31 - AI designer niches37:36 - Cursor's $60B acquisition40:57 - London Maxing movement

$1 Million Wellness Apps Hiding in Plain Sight

51 min

Saba and Charlie break down the $6.8 trillion wellness industry — period tracking, peptides, air quality, and sleep tech — then pivot to how the best founders (Dario Amodei, Brian Armstrong, Reed Hastings, Elon Musk) spotted emerging markets before anyone else. They close with a hot take on Anthropic's rumoured vibe coding platform and what it means for Lovable and Replit. Timestamps:00:00 - Intro01:06 - Wellness sector breakdown — the $6.8T opportunity04:01 - Period tracking, peptides, air quality & sleep apps25:30 - Building on Rising Tides — why bet on fast-growing markets27:20 - Founders who got in early: Dario, Brian Armstrong, Reed Hastings, Elon36:55 - AI agents, humanoid robots & the infrastructure plays44:11 - Anthropic's vibe coding platform & impact on Lovable/Replit49:00 - Anthropic's brand strategy

Lego's Near-Death & Anthropic's Insane Growth: Lessons in Focus, Culture & Strategy

54 min

How Lego nearly went bankrupt by losing sight of its core product  and what it teaches us about culture, focus, and CEO decisions. Plus, a breakdown of Anthropic's jaw-dropping $30B run rate and what's fuelling it. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro02:04 - Lego deep dive - origin, near-bankruptcy & recovery lessons19:15 - The "wrong CEO" trap & staying focused as you scale34:49 - Anthropic culture - Dario's 40–50% time investment37:22 - Anthropic's growth: $3B → $9B → $30B in one year41:17 - Why the "focus on coding" strategy is winning49:36 - OpenAI acquires TBPN - what's the real play?

Lego vs. S&P 500, The Claude Code Leak & Why Google Acquiring a Company Is the Best Signal to Build

1 hr 0 min

Sabba and Charlie are back with a packed episode spanning alternative asset classes, the growing wave of security vulnerabilities in vibe-coded software, and a deep dive into what it really means for Anthropic to be "winning enterprise." They also break down the accidental Claude Code source map leak, debate whether angel investing is just an expensive hobby, and uncover a surprisingly massive opportunity hiding in the hay fever market. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro00:39 - Alternative Investing: Lego, collectibles & vintage tech vs. S&P 50017:10 - Cybersecurity: npm supply chain attacks & vibe coding security risks31:10 - The Claude Code source map leak37:58 - Anthropic vs. OpenAI: What "winning enterprise" really means40:19 - Ideas vs. Execution & the reality of angel investing49:43 - The hay fever market & the Breezometer opportunity

$1M Boomer App Ideas, Why OpenAI Killed Sora & How to Hire Insanely Talented People

52 min

This week Charlie and Saba dig into $1M app ideas hiding in boomer hobbies, why OpenAI killed Sora and what it says about focus, and how to hire the most talented people. Saba's joining remotely from Sicily 🇮🇹, commitment to the pod is real. Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro01:02 - $1M Boomer App Ideas18:48 - OpenAI Shuts Down Sora24:39 - The Importance of Focus34:25 - How to Hire Talented People45:38 - Open Floor Meetup Recap52:11 - Moats in an AI World

How to Build AI Products in 2026, The Most Underrated Marketing Channel & The Big Lie About Competition

46 min

Sabba and Charlie cover how to build AI products in 2026 with Sabba's MAGIC Framework, why Threads might be the most underrated marketing channel, the big lie about competition, and how AI is giving content creators new ways to extend their work. Timestamps: 00:52 - First hate mail, we're famous now02:01 - Why Sabba tore up the entire Q2 roadmap06:32 - The MAGIC Framework, building AI products in 202625:47 - Creativity Maxing, the Channel Surfer viral story28:28 - Threads is bigger than X (and massively underrated)32:52 - The Big Lie About Competition40:28 - AI & Content Creators, giving your IP away to grow

How to Get Startup Ideas in 2026, OpenClaw Business Opportunities, Londonmaxxing, and more

1 hr 7 min

Saba and Charlie introduce the BROTH framework for finding validated startup ideas, dive into the Open Claw (AI agents) hype, break down Bending Spoons' private equity playbook, and celebrate the London Maxing movement, plus debate whether Charlie invented vibe coding. Timecodes: 00:00 - Intro00:38 - The BROTH Framework, how to find pre-validated startup ideas25:06 - Competitive positioning strategies (more for more, less for less, etc.)32:15 - Story: founder who sold their company and is now looking for a job34:59 - Open Claw meetup, is AI agents a new product category?42:17 - Bending Spoons acquires Eventbrite, breakdown of their PE playbook47:18 - Meetup's dark patterns (and live app investigation)55:50 - Podcast milestone + like & subscribe57:13 - London Maxing movement & the UK AI fund59:14 - Did Charlie invent vibe coding?65:45 - Should they buy lawyers.ai? Live negotiation66:51 - Sign-off

Cal AI’s Acquisition, Sabba’s 2 SaaS Growth Hacks for 2026, Intercom’s AI Pivot

49 min

Saba and Charlie do napkin math on the Cal AI acquisition by MyFitnessPal, share two must-do growth strategies for 2026 (API-first and Social SEO), and break down how Intercom bet the whole company on AI and won. Timecodes:00:00 – Intro 00:33 – Cal AI Acquisition Breakdown 19:20 – Growth Strategy #1: Go API-First 29:33 – Growth Strategy #2: Social SEO 36:46 – How Intercom Saved Itself with AI 44:27 – The Future of Outcome-Based Pricing 49:28 – Wrap up

He Built a $1M/Month SaaS After an $8M Exit | Tibo Maker

1 hr 2 min

From an $8M exit to building it all again, Tibo is one of the most unique SaaS builders we’ve met. In this episode, we unpack his regrets after selling, the exact playbook behind his $1M/month portfolio, how he stays viral on X, and what building in the AI era really looks like, all while balancing life as a dad.  00:00 Intro & the $8M exit reality02:07 $1M/month portfolio breakdown06:15 Building in public & authenticity in the AI age16:32 Running 5 companies at once 23:03 Finding product market fit & growth tactics29:39 How Tibo ships so fast (stack & vibe coding)39:13 Hacking the X algorithm45:41 The future of AI video54:22 Does your company have an AI-native product?60:30 What do you do with $1M/month?

Is OpenClaw the First $1B Solo Company? API-First Products, Brand Rituals & Buying a Top-Level Domain

47 min

We kick things off with B2B SaaS lessons learned from Valentine's Day (yes, really), then spiral into whether the OpenClaw acquisition just produced the world's first one-person billion dollar company and whether Peter Steinberger is the most underrated engineer alive. From there we get into why most SaaS companies are failing at AI, the rise of API-first and agent-first products, and why the stable SEO blog subscription world of SaaS is quietly dying. We also do a full napkin math breakdown on what it would actually cost to buy your own top-level domain like dot napkin and whether that's a business worth building. Oh, and Nike invented jogging. We get into that too. Timestamps00:00 Intro00:35 B2B SaaS lessons from Valentine's Day03:32 How brands invent rituals (Nike, HubSpot, Michelin)10:46 OpenClaw — was this the first $1B solo company?18:05 API-first & agent-first products24:34 Most SaaS companies are failing at AI29:12 How to stay sane in the AI gold rush32:21 Napkin Math breakdown: buying a top-level domain43:34 TLD ideas for the agent era 

$70M AI.com Acquisition, Anthropic's Superbowl Shot at OpenAI, $1M Solo Fitness App & Agent Wrapper Boom

46 min

This week we’re unpacking the $70M AI.com move, Anthropic taking shots at OpenAI, the rise of agent wrappers, and a quiet $1M solo app no one’s talking about. Timestamps: 00:00 – The $70M AI.com Sale03:10 – The $15M Super Bowl Bet: Does the Math Work?10:10 – Charlie's Recent Domain Purchase & Do Dot Coms Matter? 18:54 – Getting Scammed by Joe Exotic (B2B SaaS Lessons) 24:32 – The Rise of Agent Wrappers26:23 – Are AI Agents Killing Jobs?32:14 – Codex vs Claude Code38:55 – Anthropic’s OpenAI Attack Ad  42:10 – The $1M Solo Fitness App (Happy Scale Breakdown)

Is OpenClaw’s Hype Real? Are AI Agents Replacing Jobs? What’s the Anti-AI Thesis?

1 hr 5 min

The Napkin Math duo is back with another episode.  We spend most of this one trying to make sense of AI agents, OpenClaw - the new kid on the block, and why this wave feels messier but more real than the last few.  We talk through hype vs reality, what agents can actually do today, and how work is quietly shifting from roles and seats to tasks and systems. We also discuss AI fluency levels, how people are using Claude Code in real marketing workflows, one-person companies, and end with the Anti-AI portfolio. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:15 OpenClaw & the agent breakout moment 06:52 Hype vs. reality: shiny tools, boring winners 09:45 The Dropbox lesson: abstraction beats raw tech 12:43 AI agents, security & where this breaks 19:07 AI vs SaaS, leverage & outcome-based work 24:58 Are AI agents actually killing jobs? 28:23 Levels of AI fluency (and how people keep jobs) 37:26 Using AI to save your job, not lose it 45:18 Installing skills: marketing, SEO, CRO, execution 47:12 When agents go wrong: prompt hijacking & trust 52:03 The anti-AI portfolio (what AI won’t replace) 57:18 Why live experiences still win

How Jonny (Founder of Remotion) Got 14M Views on X in a Day

56 min

The duo is back with another episode, and this time we’ve got a guest. Jonny Burger, founder of Remotion, joins us after accidentally pulling 14M+ views overnight on X. We chat about vibe coding, prompting motion graphics with Claude, and why building with AI feels different right now. We also get into how Jonny handled the sudden attention, the noise, and acquisition offers that followed. Timestamps: (0:17) Remotion goes viral (accidentally) (2:25) Prompting motion graphics with Claude (6:54) How Jonny has been building for 5 years (10:33) Claude’s GPT-4 moment + vibe coding (15:25) Why Remotion won’t go full B2C (19:57) AI agents, local tools, and seat-based SaaS breaking (32:14) What 14M views actually did to revenue (40:07) Acquisition interest & choosing freedom (46:43) Real-world Remotion use cases (marathons, automation) (50:36) Europe vs. Silicon Valley + marketing lessons for devs

Is Claude the New ChatGPT? Is Peter Thiel a Billionaire? Meta-Manus, $1M Plank Biz, Solo SaaS Rise

49 min

We have some news!!! Napkin Math Podcast is now live on YouTube. The episode starts with a life update (Sabba’s new baby) and somehow turns childbirth into actual B2B SaaS lessons. From there, it spirals into whether Peter Thiel is really a billionaire, why Claude feels like another GPT-4 moment, and how vibe coding is accelerating the rise of one-person companies. It then breaks down Meta’s Manus acquisition, a bootstrapped $1M planks business hiding in plain sight, X’s push into blogs, and finishes with Elon’s ever-expanding list of beefs. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro00:27 Sabba’s B2B SaaS lessons from childbirth08:00 Is Peter Thiel a billionaire?09:57 Claude’s GPT 4 moment10:49 Vibe Coding Frenzy14:45 Ralph Wiggum AI agent19:01 AI vs seat-based SaaS23:22 Boom of one-person companies26:11 Meta acquiring Manus31:07 $1M Secret Planks Business39:48 Home-reno & logistics startup ideas43:27 X blogs push, Grok, and Elon’s beefs

Christmas Special: $100M ARR Frenzy, LLM Wars, Sergey’s Comeback, ChatGPT App Store Opportunity, Prediction Markets, 2025 Awards & 2026 Predictions

1 hr 30 min

Sabba and Charlie are back for a special Christmas episode. A 2-hour deep dive split into two parts. In the first, the chaps dive into the $100M ARR frenzy across AI startups, break down the Claude Opus 4.5 release, and debate the escalating LLM wars between Google, OpenAI, and Anthropic. They also discuss Sergey Brin’s return to Google, the opportunity emerging around the ChatGPT App Store, and why prediction markets are starting to compete with traditional media. In the second, they announce the 2025 awards, sharing their picks for the best product, the best trend, the best distribution startup, and the best comeback story, before closing off with their 2026 predictions. 00:00 Intro – Napkin Math Christmas Special00:53 Why founders can hate Christmas01:45 Sabba's baby announcement (and life update) 02:55 $100M ARR Frenzy in AI startups07:56 Google AI Studio & Unfair Advantage09:47 Are these AI startups actually profitable?11:37 When will we see $1B ARR companies?12:21 Replit’s long-term advantage & Opus 4.5 16:10 LLM Wars (Google vs. ChatGPT vs. Anthropic)17:33 Google’s vertical AI advantage explained19:47 Sergey Brin’s return to Google21:19 Is AI a winner-take-all market? 31:09 ChatGPT App Store opportunity39:58 What's the hype of Prediction Markets42:47 Startup opportunities around prediction markets50:25 2025 Napkin Math Awards (Best product, trend, distribution & comeback)01:02:27 Why Google now leads AI01:04:12 Bear case for Google01:06:29 Comparing Google’s position to Nvidia’s rise01:08:40 Honorable mention (AI Video’s breakout year)01:09:30 Why models outpaced products in AI video01:11:40 What to watch heading into 2026

5+ Startup Idea Frameworks and Making Britain Rich Again

45 min

After a mini hiatus the boys are back with a banger. 5 startup idea frameworks you can use to start the next unicorn or profitable bootstrapped business. Plus, they inadvertently start the Ben Tossell fan club, and talk about making the UK rich again. 00:00 Napkin Math - Startup Idea Frameworks01:43 Startup idea framework 1 - copy your competitors06:23 Framework 2 - build an indirect competitor09:02 Framework 3 - build for a growing trend16:18 Framework 4 - build for new regulations19:54 Framework 4 - build an Open Source competitor26:48 Are any frameworks better for bootstrappers?30:20 Do you need in-market experience before building in that market?31:45 Characteristics of successful founders33:43 The end of Claude Code?35:42 The Ben Tossell fan club39:23 Make Britain Rich Again - Forest City

B2B SaaS lessons from breaking your leg, VEED's new CTO and AI launch

41 min

After spending weeks in hospital with a broken leg, Charlie has had plenty of time to think about B2B SaaS lessons for the pod, and he delivers. The chaps also chat about VEED's new CTO hire, their Fabric 1.0 launch and brainstorm existing businesses that could inject AI to get to $100m quickly. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:07 B2B SaaS lessons from breaking your leg19:50 Why VEED hired a new CTO25:15 VEED Fabric Launch32:03 Existing companies that could inject AI35:29 Shift to usage based billing39:48 Why courses are hatedLinks: Napkin MathVEEDRamen ClubCosyRamen Space

Crazy Figma IPO, why VPNs have become VERY popular and is DeepMind the best acquisition of all time?

48 min

Today Sabba and Charlie break down the Figma IPO and speculate on which company will be the next Figma. They question whether the chat interface for AI is outdated, and debate if DeepMind might be the greatest acquisition of all time, plus who’s most likely to win the AGI race. They also dig into the UK’s online safety act, why VPNs are booming, and wrap up with a very cheeky “recording blocker” startup idea. 00:00 Intro01:21 Figma IPO10:32 Who will be the next Figma17:25 "Tea app", Uber for X, Tinder for X etc...27:25 Is the chat interface for AI archaic?31:08 Is DeepMind the best acquisition of all time?34:29 Who will win AGI?37:01 UK's online safety act and the business of VPNs45:50 Recording blocker free startup idea

How VEED founder uses ChatGPT, Duolingo's $1billion freemium masterstroke and more AI chat

40 min

Sabba talks about how he uses ChatGPT, Charlie talks use cases for Claude Code and the duo debate whether the UK is an impossible place  to bootstrap. Sabba also share lessons on hiring top talent early, and dissect Duolingo’s $1billion freemium play (with a  15% churn rate) before comparing it to VEED’s freemium vs free trial approach. 00:00 Intro00:28 How a VC-backed founder uses ChatGPT06:52 Use cases of Claude Code13:25 Napkin Math AI Animation16:14 Is the UK impossible to bootstrap?20:34 Hiring great talent early on25:31 Duolingo's $1billion freemium approach with 15% churn36:04 VEEDs approach to freemium vs free trial

Loveable's insane raise, how to make $1m with eSIMs and breaking down the most effective growth channels

56 min

The boys are back talking about Loveable's insane growth and $200m raise, the dangers of founder liquidity, plus more AI chat (of course). Charlie turns Sabba into BusinessGuruGPT prompting him with how he'd grow an eSIM business to $1m in a year. All this, and more, in this week's episode of NAPKIN MATH. Timestamps 00:00 Intro00:30 Loveable raises $200m05:58 Jason Lemkin's Replit disaster09:38 Takeaways from Loveable's raise and the future of AI companies15:53 Generative content opportunities18:19 Making £1m from e-sims30:17 Founder liquidity40:14 Focusing on a single growth channel45:25 Are AI influencers important in the future of marketing48:34 Should we be worried about the AI backlash?53:30 The seasonality of SaaS

Make £26k profit with fans, Ahrefs for LLMs and print money with an AI automation consultancy

41 min

Sabba and Charlie kick things off with some napkin math on how to make £26k per year in pure profit selling fans, then dive into a the real money maker; an AI automation consultancy. They talk about the rise of the “VEED (or Indie Beers) Mafia,” and discuss JB's Ahrefs-style tool for LLMs.  00:00 Intro00:20 Portable fan Napkin Math09:22 Startup idea: AI automation consultancy15:28 AI for marketing17:40 The VEED Mafia (Indie Beers Mafia)19:41 Ahrefs for LLMs25:16 Why in person events are so important28:20 The new Perplexity browser36:05 Why Charlie is pausing his SaaS

Figma going public, SaaS lessons from 50 Cent and the business of Glastonbury (and will Ramen Club become a nation state?)

51 min

After a hiatus that included a weekend at Glastonbury and a failed recording, the boys are back, and they are on fire. They break down the business of the Glastonbury festival and some new startup ideas around it, they talk about the Figma S1 filing and the insane numbers behind the software platform and Charlie talks about the future of Ramen Space potentially becoming a nation state.

Small bets are a terrible idea and how VEED ranked for "AI Video Generator" (SEO Playbook)

43 min

On this episode of Napkin Math, Sabba and Charlie explain why “small bets” are a terrible idea for most founders. They unpack how VEED ranks #1 for “AI video generator” (and other competitive keywords), explore Ben’s idea for a dream analysis app, the surprising business case for astrology, and how AI agents could thrive in markets like Nigeria. Sabba also shares why he believes the global adoption of stablecoins is inevitable. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro00:51 Small bets vs single focus11:03 How VEED ranks number one for highly competitive keywords18:32 Ben's dream analysis app23:48 The business of astrology29:25 AI agent app in developing markets (Nigeria)37:17 The adoption of stable coins globally is inevitable - Sabba41:26 Quick fire round

SaaS lessons from Trump & Musk falling out, TikTok shop business opportunities and why you need to reinvent yourself

50 min

There’s been a major catfight on the internet this week: Trump vs. Elon. So, Charlie did what any good podcast host would do and distilled the best lessons SaaS founders can take from the drama. The guys also share feedback from listeners, chat about opportunities in TikTok Shop, discuss why companies need to reinvent themselves, and of course, Charlie gets Sabba into trouble. Timestamps 00:00 - Intro00:32 - B2B lessons from Trump x Musk fallout03:41 - Napkin Math guest feedback12:51 - When did VEED get product market fit15:15 - VEED's 24 hour hackathon18:24 - Why companies need to reinvent themselves25:28 - The future of AI for VEED and 11 Labs31:55 - Business opportunities in TikTok Shop43:07 - Will ChatGPT be the operating system for AI?45:56 - Evolution of seat based billing

The cost of VEED's video AI model, did Slack just kill Charlie's SaaS? and LLM business ideas

45 min

Fresh off the launch of VEEDs new AI, Sabba is excited about the company having built their own fully fledged AI model, so breaks down how much it cost to build it. Charlie, meanwhile has had some bad news about his SaaS app, Cosy, potentially being killed off by Slack's new restrictions. The chaps also fire off some "Loveable for X" business ideas, with the main opportunity in gaming. 00:00 Intro00:30 VEED AI video launch 06:17 How much does it cost to build VEEDs AI video engine13:05 Platform risk for Charlie's app, Cosy21:44 Is Apple's 30% cut a good thing?28:38 Lovable for X business ideas40:58 VEEDs hackathon

Google's impressive AI launch, Jony Ive's $6b Open AI deal and Sabba's breakfast at the PMs house

49 min

The boys have made it to 10 episodes, somehow. They are still talking about AI, this time after the impressive Google Gemini launch they discuss the possibilities (including getting a new podcast co-host). Sabba talks about the pastries he had at 10 Downing Street and if they think Jony Ive's $6bn Open AI deal is worth it. Timestamps 00:00 Intro00:39 Google's new AI launch09:12 Future challenges of AI video16:29 AI powered podcasts24:02 Claude 4 release27:43 Jony Ive x Sam Altman37:48 Sabba's Downing Street breakfast43:17 Charlie talks AI agents with Monzo ex-CTO

Opportunities in the running space, how to stick to ideas and Dracula's castle

58 min

Charlie is back from Dracula's castle and Sabba is back from running a marathon. They are both arriving inspired. They do some Napkin Math on the economics of the running industry and the opportunities there, and how long it will be before they can pump out daily Dracula movies. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro04:00 Marathon running breakdown and opportunties12:35 Runna acquisition Napkin Math25:18 Building interesting things vs networking28:31 How to stick to ideas40:08 How long before we can make feature length AI films54:32 Ramen Club launch party

Why you aren't working hard enough, big podcast update and a hack for creating luck

58 min

After 7 beautiful episodes, the MRR show is dead. But fear not, Napkin Math is born from its ashes. Sabba and Charlie discuss the performance of the show, dig into where Sabba invests his angel money, do a business breakdown (some actual napkin math) before going on a tirade on founders why founders aren't working hard enough... Timestamps 00:00 Intro00:23 New podcast name05:27 Podcast growth numbers16:22 Listener Labs napkin math23:49 Sabba's angel investing strategy28:03 Sabba's lunch hack36:23 How hard do founders need to work?46:50 Long term vs short term revenue

AI image generation opportunities, how to make an entertaining video and are trade shows worth it for VEED?

49 min

Sabba is tired after being at a trade show all week for VEED, but was it worth it? Sabba and Charlie discuss the cost and results. But there's nothing better than a pick me up recording with BBQ crisp-eating Charlie Ward, who finally has some MRR for his SaaS app. The chaps talk all things AI, opportunities, SaaS drama and more. Timestamps 00:00 Intro01:20 How much does a SaaS trade show cost?05:56 What makes an entertaining video according to VEED09:32 Rippling vs Deel drama update11:29 AI image generation opportunities16:24 Sabba gets upset19:30 Cool opportunities in the AI image generation space22:13 AI products to help user research28:35 Other AI ideas32:08 Will we get AI fatigue?33:01 Scam call curiosity35:34 Loveable 2.0 release43:41 Charlie has some MRR46:33 Matthew McConaughey's audiobook

Making money from tariffs, bullish on the UK and the evolution of "make something people search for"

47 min

Sabba went to Sri Lanka and came back with fire in his belly. He's ready to make money from the tariffs and so he discusses with Charlie how he'd do it. This got them thinking about the lack of energy in the US at the moment, and why they're bullish on the UK as a place to build. They wrap up talking about the biggest mega trend to make money with in 2025. Timestamps 00:00 - Intro00:27 What Sabba learned about business in Sri Lanka03:10 VEED's billboard ad cost and results07:38 Tariffs chat11:33 Making money from the tariffs15:25 Europe vs USA vs UK20:34 The evolution of "make something people search for"23:27 Sabba's mega trend - AI wrappers32:17 The future of AI products37:50 Charlie's coworking space update44:49 Charlie's vending machine business

The $100m ARR future of VEED, 11x drama and do you need an audience?

43 min

B2B SaaS drama has got spicy recently, with both 11x and Deel making headlines. Sabba and Charlie give their take on why the companies got in hot water and if it's justified. Sabba also gives his thoughts on the future of VEED as they storm towards their $100m ARR goal and what happens next for the company. Timestamps 00:00 MRR Show 00501:06 Harry Dry's marketing course08:02 The 11x drama14:16 Deel drama17:50 Do you need an audience?24:55 Loom exit31:55 The future of VEED35:01 Studio Ghibli virality39:47 The future of AI image generation

UK vs US for startups, Charlie's new coworking space and VEED's NYC subway advertising breakdown

52 min

This week Sabba and Charlie still struggle to get their audio recorded properly* but the content is top notch. Dubbed the UK's answer to My First Million, the two kick off with debating if the UK is better than the US for building a startup. Sabba questions Charlie's sanity starting a coworking space in London, before explaining how much VEED spent on bright green advertising on the NYC subway. 00:00 Intro00:04 Charlie almost gets robbed by a creative director03:25 Is the UK a good place to build a startup?16:09 What to do when you're successful but unhappy24:45 Charlie's new coworking space38:34 One thing vs multiple projects44:33 Breakdown of VEED's NYC subway ad*(salty Producer James writing this)

ADHD product opportunity, Third Space for martial arts and Project Europe

57 min

Charlie and Sabba are back three weeks later for their weekly podcast, bringing you some banger business ideas. The chaps dive into Exploding Topics and discuss opportunities in ADHD, creating a Third Space style martial arts gym and building a better dentist. They're also bullish on Project Europe. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro02:39 VC fund for consumer brands05:23 Charlie's consumer trend idea22:45 Innovating in the health space24:48 High end martial arts gym33:38 AI Agents43:18 Model Context Protocol49:24 Project Europe

Directories, a d*ck measuring app and a sure-fire $10k MRR idea

30 min

Charlie and Sabba are back, fighting through a challenging remote connection, bringing you a cracking set of business ideas. Charlie brings a few interesting product discoveries from Indie Beers in Lisbon and Sabba stumbled across a $5-10k MRR idea while in a Ford Fiesta. Timestamps 00:00 The MRR Show ep 201:28 D*ck measuring app03:52 Funeral directory business08:16 Feedback on episode 113:48 Car error code business idea23:02 How to find new business ideas

(Pilot) AI pets, growth for free and why you should start a sauna

58 min

Hello and welcome to the pilot episode of The MRR Show, with Charlie Ward and Sabba Keynejad. Charlie is the founder of Ramen Club and Sabba is the co-founder of VEED.io. The duo are coming together for this pilot episode, to share their thoughts on SaaS, tech and startups, from the perspective of two successful founders with Charlie being the heart of the london indie community and Sabba running an 8 figure VC backed SaaS. AI is a prominent feature in this first episode, talking about meetups, fine tuning LLMs and being able to talk to your dog. Timestamps 00:00 - Intro01:35 - AI Events04:30 - is Meetup full of grifters?08:18 - Who is going to be the next billion $ company?11:18 - Competing against AI16:56 - How to capitilise on the AI tool trend24:19 - Character.ai30:37 - Fine tuning LLMs35:44 - Loveable for X37:46 - Build something people search for41:12 - Micro tool strategy46:46 - Should you have a free plan 50:34 - Peach.ai52:12 - Sabba's local sauna

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