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Justin Norris

RevOps FM

A Marketing , Business and Technology podcast

#195 in Marketing · 🇮🇪
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About the show

This podcast is your weekly masterclass on becoming a better revenue operator. We challenge conventional wisdom and dig into what actually works for building predictable revenue at scale. For show notes and extra resources, visit https://revops.fm/show Key topics include: marketing technology, sales technology, marketing operations, sales operations, process optimization, team structure, planning, reporting, forecasting, workflow automation, and GTM strategy.

Newest episodes

Building a Company Brain for AI - Jacob Dietle

45 min

Every time you explain your business to an AI from scratch, you’re repeating work. The opportunity with context engineering is to make your company’s expertise, processes, and past learning available whenever an agent needs them—so each new task builds on what you already know. In this episode, I’m joined by Jacob Dietle—a consultant focused on context engineering and AI collaboration—to explore company brains, shared knowledge, and how to give agents the information they need to do useful work. We discuss: What context engineering means in practiceWhen to move beyond individual ChatGPT projects to shared company contextHow existing knowledge bases fit into a company brainTurning customer conversations into insights agents can reuseUsing skills, version control, and source evidence to manage contextHow agents find information without loading everything at onceThe challenges of keeping context useful across teams Whether you’re building AI workflows for yourself or helping your company adopt agents, this conversation explores the decisions involved in organizing knowledge, choosing tools, and starting with practical use cases. About Today's GuestJacob Dietle helps teams organize company knowledge and build systems for AI collaboration through Taste Systems. His work combines context engineering, knowledge management, and team enablement, with a focus on making company expertise usable across people and agents. In this conversation, he shares his approach to working with seed and Series A companies on AI for go-to-market. You can find him sharing his work on LinkedIn and his Substack, Speed to Insight. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction and defining context engineering[03:30] - How business context changes AI outputs[05:15] - From individual AI projects to company brains[09:20] - Where existing knowledge bases fit[14:27] - Choosing where to start[17:12] - Turning customer calls into grounded insights[22:45] - Building useful skills without modeling the whole business[25...

The Operator's Roadmap for AI in 2026 - Lily Luo

43 min

Justin and Lily reflect on their parallel journeys diving deep into AI throughout 2025. They discuss why most AI content misses the mark for operators and system builders working within corporate constraints, share lessons from building production AI tools, and explore what's next for bringing these capabilities into the enterprise. Guest: Lily Luo — Systems & Operations Leader, Author of Applied AI for MOps Substack Read more of Justin's thoughts on AI Builders: The operator's roadmap for AI in 2026 KEY TOPICS The Gap in AI Content Most resources target researchers or GTM engineers focused on outbound automation. There's little guidance for operators dealing with cloud tools, security, and corporate complexity. That creates an opportunity to define best practices for this underserved audience. 2025 Project Highlights Lily built an "Analysis Dossier" tool that generates full account research reports at the click of a button. Justin replaced a vendor intelligence tool with a custom system using Retool and a conversational agent. Lessons Learned Start with tightly scoped AI steps in linear workflows for reliability. Pre-process insights asynchronously rather than relying on real-time agent calculations. Match tools to use cases. Failures teach more than successes. Atlas: Lily's Autonomous Agent Runs on Google Cloud and wakes every 4 hours to research and progress projects. Uses a three-layer memory architecture: identity, temporal journal, and knowledge graph. Can push its own code and interact with other agents. 2026 Outlook Focus on scalability, reduced hallucination, and team enablement. Build infrastructure that unlocks flexible, ad-hoc use cases. Bridge the gap between AI capabilities and enterprise readiness. The Human Side Working closely with AI changes how you think. Boundaries matter—don't let AI become a crutch. RESOURCES Applied AI for MOps — Lily's SubstackAI Builders Blog — Justin's SubstackTools mentioned: Claude Code, Gemini, ChatGPT, Zapier, Retool, D...

SEO in the Age of AI - Gaetano DiNardi

50 min

SEO used to be the ultimate growth lever—offering massive “free” traffic to marketers who could outsmart the algorithm. But in 2025, it's a different game. In this episode, I’m joined by Gaetano DiNardi—an SEO strategist with deep experience across B2B SaaS—to unpack how AI is reshaping the search landscape. We discuss: The SEO playbook for 2025 How zero-click search is impacting real-world traffic Why brand is actually a competitive moat for SEO How to appear in AI search previews and LLM recommendations When a startup should consider SEO How to optimize content for the top, middle, and bottom of the funnel Whether you’re running SEO for an enterprise brand or figuring out your growth strategy as a founder, this conversation will help you recalibrate your approach to search in the age of AI. About Today's Guest Gaetano DiNardi is an SEO expert and principal consultant at Marketing Advice. He’s spent over a decade in B2B marketing, helping 50+ SaaS companies drive growth and demand. He’s battled in some of the most competitive trenches out there—categories like identity theft, business VoIP, employee monitoring, insider threat detection, LMS software, and more. You can find him sharing lessons from the field on LinkedIn and Substack. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:24] - Evolution of search over the past 10 years[04:09] - Impact of brand on rankings[05:36] - Did SEO degrade search quality?[11:30] - Impact of zero-click results[20:28] - How to get recommended in AI preview[34:15] - When should a startup focus on SEO?[41:39] - SEO for TOFU, MOFU, and BOFU Resource LinksMarketing AdviceMarketing Advice SubstackScrunch AI - Brand monitoring for AI searchWhat is Brand Authority and How Is It Calculated? - Moz Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

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All episodes

Building a Company Brain for AI - Jacob Dietle

45 min

Every time you explain your business to an AI from scratch, you’re repeating work. The opportunity with context engineering is to make your company’s expertise, processes, and past learning available whenever an agent needs them—so each new task builds on what you already know. In this episode, I’m joined by Jacob Dietle—a consultant focused on context engineering and AI collaboration—to explore company brains, shared knowledge, and how to give agents the information they need to do useful work. We discuss: What context engineering means in practiceWhen to move beyond individual ChatGPT projects to shared company contextHow existing knowledge bases fit into a company brainTurning customer conversations into insights agents can reuseUsing skills, version control, and source evidence to manage contextHow agents find information without loading everything at onceThe challenges of keeping context useful across teams Whether you’re building AI workflows for yourself or helping your company adopt agents, this conversation explores the decisions involved in organizing knowledge, choosing tools, and starting with practical use cases. About Today's GuestJacob Dietle helps teams organize company knowledge and build systems for AI collaboration through Taste Systems. His work combines context engineering, knowledge management, and team enablement, with a focus on making company expertise usable across people and agents. In this conversation, he shares his approach to working with seed and Series A companies on AI for go-to-market. You can find him sharing his work on LinkedIn and his Substack, Speed to Insight. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction and defining context engineering[03:30] - How business context changes AI outputs[05:15] - From individual AI projects to company brains[09:20] - Where existing knowledge bases fit[14:27] - Choosing where to start[17:12] - Turning customer calls into grounded insights[22:45] - Building useful skills without modeling the whole business[25...

The Operator's Roadmap for AI in 2026 - Lily Luo

43 min

Justin and Lily reflect on their parallel journeys diving deep into AI throughout 2025. They discuss why most AI content misses the mark for operators and system builders working within corporate constraints, share lessons from building production AI tools, and explore what's next for bringing these capabilities into the enterprise. Guest: Lily Luo — Systems & Operations Leader, Author of Applied AI for MOps Substack Read more of Justin's thoughts on AI Builders: The operator's roadmap for AI in 2026 KEY TOPICS The Gap in AI Content Most resources target researchers or GTM engineers focused on outbound automation. There's little guidance for operators dealing with cloud tools, security, and corporate complexity. That creates an opportunity to define best practices for this underserved audience. 2025 Project Highlights Lily built an "Analysis Dossier" tool that generates full account research reports at the click of a button. Justin replaced a vendor intelligence tool with a custom system using Retool and a conversational agent. Lessons Learned Start with tightly scoped AI steps in linear workflows for reliability. Pre-process insights asynchronously rather than relying on real-time agent calculations. Match tools to use cases. Failures teach more than successes. Atlas: Lily's Autonomous Agent Runs on Google Cloud and wakes every 4 hours to research and progress projects. Uses a three-layer memory architecture: identity, temporal journal, and knowledge graph. Can push its own code and interact with other agents. 2026 Outlook Focus on scalability, reduced hallucination, and team enablement. Build infrastructure that unlocks flexible, ad-hoc use cases. Bridge the gap between AI capabilities and enterprise readiness. The Human Side Working closely with AI changes how you think. Boundaries matter—don't let AI become a crutch. RESOURCES Applied AI for MOps — Lily's SubstackAI Builders Blog — Justin's SubstackTools mentioned: Claude Code, Gemini, ChatGPT, Zapier, Retool, D...

SEO in the Age of AI - Gaetano DiNardi

50 min

SEO used to be the ultimate growth lever—offering massive “free” traffic to marketers who could outsmart the algorithm. But in 2025, it's a different game. In this episode, I’m joined by Gaetano DiNardi—an SEO strategist with deep experience across B2B SaaS—to unpack how AI is reshaping the search landscape. We discuss: The SEO playbook for 2025 How zero-click search is impacting real-world traffic Why brand is actually a competitive moat for SEO How to appear in AI search previews and LLM recommendations When a startup should consider SEO How to optimize content for the top, middle, and bottom of the funnel Whether you’re running SEO for an enterprise brand or figuring out your growth strategy as a founder, this conversation will help you recalibrate your approach to search in the age of AI. About Today's Guest Gaetano DiNardi is an SEO expert and principal consultant at Marketing Advice. He’s spent over a decade in B2B marketing, helping 50+ SaaS companies drive growth and demand. He’s battled in some of the most competitive trenches out there—categories like identity theft, business VoIP, employee monitoring, insider threat detection, LMS software, and more. You can find him sharing lessons from the field on LinkedIn and Substack. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:24] - Evolution of search over the past 10 years[04:09] - Impact of brand on rankings[05:36] - Did SEO degrade search quality?[11:30] - Impact of zero-click results[20:28] - How to get recommended in AI preview[34:15] - When should a startup focus on SEO?[41:39] - SEO for TOFU, MOFU, and BOFU Resource LinksMarketing AdviceMarketing Advice SubstackScrunch AI - Brand monitoring for AI searchWhat is Brand Authority and How Is It Calculated? - Moz Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

How AI Agents Really Work - Daniel Vassilev

49 min

AI agents are everywhere in conversation right now—but what actually makes them work? It’s not just slapping a large language model into a workflow and calling it a day. Under the hood, real agentic systems operate differently. They make decisions. They adapt. They break out of rigid if-this-then-that logic and enter something closer to human judgment. In this episode, I talk with Daniel Vassilev, co-founder of Relevance AI, a platform purpose-built for building and deploying true agents. We dig deep into how agentic systems are structured—from core instructions to tool orchestration—and how that foundation changes what’s possible. Daniel explains the difference between automation and autonomy in clear, practical terms that any builder, founder, or operator can understand. We also explore real-world use cases: where agents shine today, where they fall short, and how teams are already using them to 10x output without ballooning headcount. Whether you’re dabbling in LLM workflows or ready to rethink how your company works entirely, this conversation will level up your mental model. If you’ve been wondering where the hype ends and the real architecture begins—this is the episode. About Today's Guest Daniel Vassilev is Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Relevance AI, a platform to develop commercial-grade multi-agent systems to power your business. With a background in software engineering, he previously created, grew and monetised two apps to a combined 7 million users, reaching #1 on the App Store top free. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:31] - Defining agentic AI[03:28] - AI in linear workflows vs. agentic systems[08:19] - How agents work under the hood[11:24] - Always-on agents[13:43] - Selecting the right tasks for agentic AI[17:42] - Copilot vs. Autopilot [22:44] - Are there tasks we should never delegate to AI? [25:03] - Coolest use cases[34:30] - Agent memory and continual improvement[37:55] - Compounding effect of agent teams[41:39] - Relevance the company and platfo...

The Journey to VP of Marketing Ops - Kimi Corrigan

46 min

Not many people make it to VP of Marketing Operations—Kimi Corrigan has done it twice. In this episode, she shares her journey from marketing coordinator to leading marketing ops at companies like Duo Security, Cisco, Wiz, Expel, and DataRobot. We dive into what it really takes to reach VP level, how to position yourself for leadership, and why marketing ops pros should start asking for that title. Kimi also gets real about the challenges of scaling teams, navigating internal politics, and balancing the tactical with the strategic. We talk about how marketing ops has evolved, the role of data and strategy, and why building strong cross-functional relationships is just as important as knowing your way around a tech stack. If you're a marketing ops pro wondering what’s next in your career—or how to level up—this one’s for you. About Today's Guest With over 19 years in marketing operations and leadership, Kimi Corrigan thrives on optimizing marketing strategies for efficiency and effectiveness. Kimi has held marketing ops leadershiop roles at Duo Security, Cisco, Wiz, Expel, and DataRobot. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimicorrigan/ Key Topics[00:53] - How Kimi got started in marketing operations[03:04] - Early-generation marketing automation[05:54] - How you know if MOPS is working well[10:11] - Navigating people and organizational problems[16:51] - Becoming a VP Marketing Ops[22:31] - Operations and strategy [33:47] - Composable stacks vs. suites[37:51] - MOPS team structure[39:50] - Planning cycle Resource Links Learn MoreVisit the RevOps FM Substack for our weekly newsletter: Newsletter

Scott Brinker on How AI Will Reshape Martech in 2025

48 min

Earlier this month, Scott Brinker and co-author Frans Riemersma released their latest report: Martech for 2025. It’s 108 pages of dense insights on where Martech is headed—and as you might imagine, it’s largely focused on the core ways AI is re-shaping our discipline. For nearly 15 years, Scott has chronicled the rise of martech as one of its foremost thought leaders, and it was my pleasure to sit down with him to dig into the conclusions. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Scott Brinker is VP Platform Ecosystem at HubSpot and previously the co-founder and CTO of ion interactive, a SaaS company that pioneered interactive content for global enterprises and was acquired in 2017. Since 2008, he’s also run the Chief Marketing Technologist blog, chiefmartec.com, with over 50,000 readers, and creator of the Marketing Technology Landscape, mapping the growth of the marketing technology industry from a few hundred vendors to over 14,000. He wrote the best-selling book "Hacking Marketing," published by Wiley in 2016, and co-authored of the article "The Rise of the Chief Marketing Technologist" published in Harvard Business Review. He is a frequent keynote speaker at conferences around the world on topics of marketing technology and agile marketing. https://www.linkedin.com/in/sjbrinker/ Key Topics[01:26] - Main take-aways from the report[03:31] - How AI can lead to more differentiated marketing[06:07] - Efficiency...

Why ABM Doesn’t Work (and How to Fix It) - Andrei Zinkevich

41 min

At a recent event with about 300 attendees, today's guest polled the audience and asked how they felt about their ABM performance. 98.5% said they weren't satisfied. If you've ever built an ABM program, this statistic may not surprise you. My observation is that there are few motions where the hype and the reality are so far apart. Why is that? What are people getting wrong about ABM? And how do you make it work? Andrei Zinkevich provides some very concrete and detailed answers to these questions in today's episode. You'll learn why ABM is more than the typical "display ad + email" recipe that many companies use, why true ABM really doesn't scale in a conventional sense, why you don't need expensive software, and why the most important personalization data comes from the company's own buyers. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Andrei Zinkevich is co-founder at Fullfunnel.io, an agency that transforms B2B tech and service-based companies from siloed sales and marketing to full-funnel account-based marketing and demand generation. He's also co-host of the Full-Funnel B2B Marketing Podcast. https://www.linkedin.com/in/azinkevich/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:43] - Core mistakes of most ABM motions[13:47] - The pillars of ABM[29:09] - Creating awareness within target accounts[36:11] - Moving from awareness to sales discussions Thanks to Our SponsorBig thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s...

Lessons in RevOps From Pardot, Terminus, and Beyond - Mallory Lee

52 min

This week we sit down with Mallory Lee, a seasoned RevOps leader whose career spans transformative roles at Pardot, Terminus, and more. Together, we tackle the realities of RevOps today, from debunking the myth that RevOps is the buyer for tech tools to navigating the challenges of unified operations. Mallory reflects on her time leading teams through the rise of ABM platforms, highlighting lessons learned about hype, strategy, and staying grounded in reality. She also shares her candid perspective on the role of RevOps as the backbone of a company’s strategy. We explore how RevOps can bring alignment across go-to-market teams, why getting the ICP right is a never-ending challenge, and how tech platforms like marketing automation must evolve to keep up with modern demands. Whether you’re a RevOps practitioner, a SaaS vendor, or just someone who loves geeking out over strategy, this episode is packed with unvarnished truths and actionable insights. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mallory Lee is an experienced Revenue Operations professional with 15 years of experience collaborating across the GTM Org and C-Suite to scale B2B SaaS revenue. She's held marketing and RevOps leadership positions at companies like Terminus and Nylas, is a product advisor for RevTech companies, and co-founder of the RevTech Review. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:57] - Favourite RevOps...

Building a Composable Tech Stack for Outbound and ABM - Justin guests on "RevOps Lab"

41 min

One of the most interesting projects I worked on recently was a rebuild of our ABM / outbound / buying signal tech stack at my day job.  I had bought one of the big legacy ABM platforms a few years ago but had never really seen the value we were hoping for, at least not enough to justify the cost.  And meanwhile, there’s been this explosion of new vendors in the outbound space—tracking signals, aggregating signals, powering sales workflows, enrichment, AI SDR assistants, and the list goes on.  I did a really deep evaluation to understand the landscape, and just as I wrapped that up, I sat down with Janis and Philipp who host the RevOps Lab podcast by Weflow. We had a great discussion and really went into the details on this topic. If you’re thinking about changing up your ABM tech or just want to get oriented on what’s going on here, this is a great episode for you.  Hope you enjoy it, and check out more episodes from RevOps Lab here: https://www.getweflow.com/revops-lab -------- Justin Norris, Senior Director of Marketing Ops at 360 Learning and host of the RevOps FM podcast, joins us to dive into outbound strategies and the evolving role of AI in sales. Justin shares his approach to outbound, focusing on experimentation, signals, and leveraging technology to make outbound motions more effective. He also discusses the importance of flexibility in trying new outbound approaches and creating a system where teams can experiment and learn what works best. We cover:The shift from traditional outbound methods to AI-driven strategiesHow signals play a critical role in outbound successThe importance of flexibility and experimentation in outboundUsing tools like MadKudu to streamline outbound workflowsAI’s role in the future of outbound and sales engagement Chapters:[00:00] Introduction[01:17] Justin’s Background and Journey in RevOps[03:59] Outbound in the Modern Sales Environment[07:31] Signals and AI in Outbound Strategy[14:39] Building Flexibility into Outbound Motions[...

Going Deep into Marketing Mix Modelling and Incrementality - Pranav Piyush

55 min

Attribution remains one of the hardest challenges in marketing. It affects literally EVERYTHING: how we’re perceived as a discipline, the strategies we pick, the activities we decide to do—even how we justify our existence. B2B companies generally use some combination of first touch, last touch, or multi-touch attribution. They may apply those approaches very diligently and rigorously, but few stop to consider whether those methods are valid and sound. How do we know whether attribution actually predicts anything? Are we just deluding ourselves? And if we tear down MTA, what do we put in its place? In today's conversation with Pranav Piyush—CEO of Paramark—we discuss how to apply marketing mix modelling and incrementality testing to understand the effectiveness of any channel or asset. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Pranav Piyush is the Co-Founder and CEO of Paramark, a platform providing marketing measurement and forecasting for fast-growing businesses. Prior to Paramark, he's held growth and marketing leadership roles for companies like Magento, Pilot.com, and BILL. https://www.linkedin.com/in/pranavp/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:45] - Why multi-touch attribution isn’t valid[07:19] - Why MMM overcomes the limitations of MTA[11:05] - Correlation vs. causation[16:00] - Measuring the impact of content[22:47] - How MMM works under the hood[27:12] - Running an incrementality test without MMM[32:...

Preventing MarTech Stack Failures with Automated Testing and Monitoring - M.H. Lines

45 min

This week we sit down with M.H. Lines, founder of Stack Moxie, to explore how automated testing and monitoring can prevent Martech failures. M.H. shares insights from her experience as a marketing operations leader and explains why many revenue teams are still vulnerable to unexpected system breakdowns. We dive into the challenges that come with managing complex Martech stacks and why early detection through automated tools is essential for keeping operations running smoothly. M.H. also reflects on her journey from marketing leadership to founding Stack Moxie, including how she navigates being a venture-backed startup without compromising on her core principles. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest M.H. Lines founded Stack Moxie in 2018 to bridge the gap between engineering and no-code technology for the SaaS economy. She has helped teams in marketing and technology both in-house and as a consultant at companies like Terex, Cohn & Wolfe, Microsoft, Lowes, The Tile Doctor and IBM Watson Health. MH received an undergraduate degree from The Florida State University in Finance, and her MBA from the Foster School of Business, University of Washington with a focus on Technology Management.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/mhlines/ Key Topics[00:00] - [00:00] - Introduction[01:49] - Secrets to Gap Folding[03:55] - From marketing to MOPS[07:54] - MOPS as strategic vs. service provider[14:28] - Being wired as a founder[17...

Is AI a Game-Changer for Data Analytics? - Grant Grigorian

1 hr 6 min

This week we chat with Grant Grigorian, a long-time friend of mine and founder of Mogi.ai, to explore whether AI is actually a game-changer for data analytics. We examine what’s broken in the current landscape of data analytics, the complex world of marketing attribution, and the “last mile of analytics” problem (that is., how do you get business users to actually read and use the analyses you produce). Then we dive very deep into practical applications of AI for data analysis, looking at concrete examples to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of large language models (LLMs) and contrasting them with traditional machine learning approaches. In closing, Grant reflects on the future of data careers in the age of AI. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest A startup guy who loves B2B marketing technology, analytics, and AI, Grant Grigorian is a serial entrepreneur. Coming from an operations background, Grant founded Path to Scale, a marketing analytics company, that sold to Engagio (later acquired by DemandBase). Today he's the CEO and co-founder of Mogi, an app that simplifies marketing data analysis by automatically delivering insights and recommendations to your team. https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantgrigorian/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - What’s broken in data analytics[08:45] - Using data to justify marketing’s existence[18:15] - Analyzing marketing tactics[24:39] - The “last mile of analyti...

Scaling Excellence Across Your Sales Organization - Kyle Asay

51 min

Sales leadership is one of the hardest jobs in the company. Your success is black and white—you've either hit your number, or you haven't—and getting a group of sellers moving in the same direction isn’t easy, as anyone in RevOps knows. Today we're joined by Kyle Asay to dig into what separates top-performing sales leaders from the rest. We talk about how to scale sales excellence, balance standardization with creativity, and build trust and rapport at every stage of the sales process. Kyle also shares his insights on navigating the transition from individual contributor to sales leader, the real role of AI in outbound, and how to build a side hustle while leading a team. Packed with practical frameworks and hard-won lessons, this conversation is a must-listen for sales leaders, individual sellers, and revenue operators supporting sales teams. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Kyle Asay started his career in sales as an SDR at Qualtrics, where he qualified for five consecutive President’s Clubs as an AE, front-line leader, and second-line leader. After an incredible 8.5 years at Qualtrics, he's gone on to serve as a sales leader for MongoDB and currently at LaunchDarkly. You can also find him sharing his frameworks with over 10,000 sellers at SalesIntroverts.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyleasay/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:52] - Current selling environment[04:46] - Scaling sales excellence[1...

How Advanced AI Workflows Are Changing Outbound - Jordan Crawford

47 min

In this episode, we unravel how advanced AI workflows can scale a truly effective outbound strategy (and not just create more spam). Jordan Crawford shares his expertise on how to use AI to automate deep research, identify the most targeted accounts, and develop unique and relevant messaging—all without falling into the trap of reductive "AI SDR" approaches. We also explore how to leverage AI as a thought partner, the future structure of BizDev teams, and why Clay is all the rage right now. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Jordan Crawford has been in growth for over 10 years, and for the past three and a half has been the founder of Blueprint, an agency that specializes in structuring any data from the public web about your ideal prospects. He's also been an advisor to Clay since 2021. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordancrawford/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:59] - Changes in the outbound landscape[06:41] - How to use AI as a thought-partner [11:28] - Why AI SDRs are not the future[14:28] - AI in the writing process[20:42] - What WILL replace the SDR function[28:59] - The difference with enterprise buyers[30:34] - Signals[38:48] - Making AI plays resilient[43:04] - Clay Thanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners. This is the only truly communi...

Building Your Owned Audience for B2B Marketing - Anthony Kennada

51 min

You may have heard the phrase, "every company is a media company"—but what does this actually mean for B2B? How do you go about building an audience, what content should you use, and how should you measure it? Here to answer these questions is category-creating CMO and founder, Anthony Kennada. He helped pioneer the category of customer success as founding CMO at Gainsight, and today is helping B2B companies develop owned audiences as CEO of AudiencePlus. Anthony is a great marketer who has thought deeply about how brands should develop relationships with audiences for the long term. This wide-ranging conversation explores many facets of how to put this into practice. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Anthony Kennada is the co-founder and CEO of AudiencePlus—building software, content, and community to help every company become a media company. Prior to founding AudiencePlus, he served as the CMO of companies like Hopin, Front, and Gainsight. At this last company, he and his team are credited with creating the Customer Success category. Anthony is also the author of Category Creation: How to Build a Brand that Customers, Employees, and Investors Will Love, which debuted as a number one new release on Amazon. https://www.linkedin.com/in/akennada/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:43] - Evolving through growth stages at Gainsight[06:40] - Category creation[14:09] - Why should every company be a media co...

A Quote-to-Cash Masterclass - Nicholas Rose and Tony Tarantino

46 min

Quote-to-cash: it's messy, it's technical, and every project takes WAY longer than planned. It's also absolutely vital. If you can't get quotes out the door, or if you can't collect money from your customers, you don't have a business. Because of their complexity, these systems tend to change infrequently, and in-house operators may not get the repetitive exposure necessary to master the intricacies of CPQ or billing system projects. So when I wanted a crash course on quote-to-cash, I turned to Nick and Tony at Hyperscayle—former operators who've built a RevOps agency with a focus on lead-to-cash operations. We go deep into the process and systems, discuss technical gotchas, and explore the change management issues that must be addressed to make quote-to-cash work smoothly. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's GuestsNicholas Rose is Co-Founder of Hyperscayle, a RevOps consulting firm covering lead-to-cash operations. He's previously held senior operations roles at Dell and Mendix (acquired by Siemens AG). Tony Tarantino is Chief Architect at Hyperscayle. Previously, he was a technology consultant at Accenture and application architect at Mendix. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:56] - Making the jump from in-house to agency[05:17] - Quote to cash definitions[10:25] - Design phase and cross-functional alignment [14:06] - When does a company need CPQ [16:41] - Why are CPQ projects so messy[22:34] - Product conf...

Finding Balance and Fulfillment in Your RevOps Career - Danielle Marquis

45 min

This week I sit down with seasoned RevOps executive Danielle Marquis to explore the evolving landscape of the discipline and how professionals can find balance and fulfillment in their careers. Danielle shares insights from her 15 years of experience in the field, discussing how RevOps has changed over time and how the role is increasingly being positioned as a critical function within organizations. We dive into the best practices for structuring RevOps teams, prioritizing work, and aligning internal strategies for maximum impact. As the conversation unfolds, we also explore some personal aspects of career growth, with Danielle offering candid advice on how to carve out a fulfilling path in RevOps and find your happy place at work. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest With 15 years of experience in revenue operations, Danielle Marquis has lead global teams supporting sales, marketing, and customer success functions in achieving their goals and growing the business. Her super power is connecting the dots across various business decisions and technologies to drive and design a more operationalized path to GTM. https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellemarquis/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - Evolution of RevOps in the past 15 years[11:08] - Positioning RevOps internally[16:46] - Team structure[26:16] - Planning and prioritization[30:40] - Finding your happy place at work[39:40] - What’s next in RevOps[43:...

Creating Executive-Level Data Stories - Justin guests on "Revenue Marketing Report"

35 min

This week I'm sharing another podcast I've guested on recently: The Revenue Marketing Report, hosted by Camela Thompson of Caliber Mind. Camela is a veteran marketing and analytics leader, and we have an in-depth conversation about the business and cultural dimensions of reporting: what KPIs are you reporting to different audiences, data rituals, analytics storytelling, and more. This is a super important topic for me, because how you create and share data stories in your organization can be the difference between building an executive-level presence for yourself or getting pigeon-holed as a service provider. We'll be back to regularly scheduled programming next week, until then, enjoy the rest of your August. ------ Justin Norris, host of the RevOps FM Podcast and Sr. Director of BDR and Marketing Operations at 360Learning, joins our host, Camela Thompson, Go-To-Market Thought Leader and B2B Insights Expert, in this episode of the Revenue Marketing Report. Justin shares his insights and how years of experience sitting at the executive table representing marketing changed his views about which numbers matter most and why. They also geeked out over why MQLs are evil, how to build a ritual around data, and why B2B ops and marketing should focus more on learning from one another. For more great content like this, check out https://calibermind.com/

A Deep Dive on B2B SaaS Reporting - Justin guests on "Beyond the Pipeline"

43 min

It’s August and I’m taking some time off this month to travel and recharge a bit.  But I didn’t want to leave you hanging for a whole month, so I thought it would a great time to share some recent podcasts where I’ve been featured as a guest.  First up, we have an episode on Beyond the Pipeline with Vivin Vergis, where we do a deep dive into reporting for B2B SaaS orgs.  This is a tough, thorny, sometimes painful topic, but Vivin asked some really great questions and we explore how to tell better stories with data, create a culture of objectivity, prioritize ad-hoc requests, and a whole bunch more.  Let’s dive in to the episode. -------- In this episode of Beyond the Pipeline, host Vivin welcomes Justin Norris, Director of Marketing and BDR Operations at 360 Learning and host of the RevOpps FM podcast. Justin shares his journey into operations, transitioning from an English major to a pivotal figure in marketing operations. They dive deep into the challenges of reporting in B2B SaaS, discussing concepts like reporting fatigue, the importance of storytelling in data presentation, and handling impulsive reporting requests. Justin emphasizes the need for a cultural shift towards objective data analysis and the role of ops in being accountable for business performance. Tune in to gain valuable insights on managing reporting requests, addressing cognitive biases, achieving a single source of truth, and avoiding reporting fatigue in B2B SaaS. Timestamps:[00:02] Introduction and Justin’s Journey into Operations Justin shares his unique path from being an English major to becoming a pivotal figure in marketing operations. [03:32] Reporting Fatigue in B2B SaaS Discussion on the challenges of data overload and how reporting fatigue sets in within organizations. [07:22] Storytelling with Data The importance of creating a narrative around data and how effective communication can alleviate reporting fatigue. [08:23] Handling Impulsive Reporting Requests Strategies for filtering...

Taking the Pain out of GTM Systems Enablement - Dan Giovacchini

46 min

Enabling revenue teams to use the systems we build and maintain is a huge part of our job as revenue operators. Unfortunately for us, it often doesn’t work very well. We create documents that no one reads. They sit in knowledge bases that no one visits. We're repeatedly interrupted by Slack messages from confused users. We're forced to send Chatter reminders asking people to PLEASE follow the process for the 500th time.  Today’s guest thinks that there’s a better way to do software enablement, and he founded a company called Tango to deliver on that promise. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Daniel Giovacchini is COO and Co-Founder at Tango, a tool for creating how-to documentation and software walkthroughs that drive digital process adoption. https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-giovacchini/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:52] - AI and changes in the tech market[06:33] - Two approaches to enablement[10:43] - Building a minimum-lovable product[20:44] - Bottom-up monetization[29:38] - Learning in the flow of work [36:37] - The knowledge management stack[40:09] - Role as COO Thanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed with hands-on learning from real practitioners. This is the only truly community-led tech-agnostic MOPS conference out there. It's got the best speakers, the best networking, the b...

Building the Community for RevOps - Matt Volm

44 min

Matt Volm is the founder of RevOps Co-op, a vibrant community for RevOps pros. He shares his journey as a repeat founder, who has taken the roller-coaster of building multiple startups, and reflects on the tenacity and toughness it requires. RevOps Co-op actually started as a community in support of a software company, but when Matt saw the need for more education and resources for the RevOps field, he pivoted and hasn't looked back. Matt and I discuss the crucial interplay between finance and RevOps, how RevOps pros can build their finance acumen, the hot debate on unified vs. split RevOps functions, and much more. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Matt Volm is a repeat founder and CEO of RevOps Co-op, a community for folks who love revenue operations. He's also a scout at Mucker Capital, focused on early stage B2B software. Matt has an MBA from Berkeley Haas and a background in strategic finance, operations and business development. https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewvolm/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:01] - Finance and RevOps[07:01] - Developing finance literacy[10:15] - Operating during the tech bubble[12:35] - Unified vs. split RevOps[21:13] - RevOps Co-op[27:53] - Lessons learned as a repeat founder[32:00] - The community-led business model[39:05] - What’s next for RevOps? Thanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketi...

The Evolution of B2B Content Marketing - Ashley Faus

1 hr 0 min

Content has been the lifeblood of how B2B companies go to market for at least 20 years, since Hubspot pioneered the concept of Inbound Marketing. We make content, we drip it out, we nurture people with it, we align it with our funnels, and we have a conviction that it makes people buy things—although that's also quite difficult to prove. The content game is not going anywhere, but it IS changing. And to guide us through those changes, we're chatting today with B2B content expert Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing at Atlassian. Ashley challenges traditional content mapping to the B2B funnel and introduces the idea of a "content playground" where people engage with content in a way that suits them best in a non-linear, non-standard journey. She also delves into the different intents behind content (buy, use, help, trust), the different levels of content (conceptual, strategic, tactical), the nuances between individual and brand-led content, and the growing role of B2B creators. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Ashley Faus is a marketer, writer, speaker by day, and a singer, actor, fitness fiend by night. She's a leading content marketing expert who loves telling the high-level stories that resonate with an audience and connecting the dots between types of assets and distribution channels. For the past seven years, she's been the Head of Lifecycle Marketing, Portfolio, at Atlassian. Her writing has b...

AI, RevOps, and the Future of Sales - Jacco van der Kooij

55 min

In this week's episode, we delve into the evolving landscape of sales with Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and a renowned expert in go-to-market strategies. We begin by reflecting on the "Golden Age of SaaS," a period defined by rapid growth but also unsustainable business dynamics. As market conditions shift, we explore how revenue teams must adapt to thrive in the current environment. AI is becoming an integral part of the sales industry. Jacco shares his insights on how AI will transform sales roles, automating many tasks that currently consume significant time and resources and shrinking the number of jobs. Revenue Operations has a crucial role in this changing landscape, as the only function positioned to optimize the end-to-end buying process. Join us for a thoughtful discussion on the past, present, and future of sales, and gain valuable insights from one of the industry's leading minds. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Jacco van der Kooij is an internationally renowned author, business leader, and thought leader on revenue growth and strategy. He is the founder of Winning By Design, a global B2B revenue consulting and training company, which consults for and trains GTM teams at companies such as Uber Eats, DocuSign, MURAL and OwnBackup. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaccovanderkooij/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:27] - The Golden Age of SaaS[04:21] - The old style vs. the new...

Integrating Product-Led and Sales-Led Strategies at Zapier - Lindsay Rothlisberger

47 min

Is the future of SaaS growth product-led or sales-led? What if it's both? Zapier uses PLG to create an ecosystem of users and product signals which then drives their sales-led outreach. Coordinating these motions in parallel takes technical sophistication, great communication, and tight process. Fortunately, they have a unified RevOps team that keeps everyone on the same page. This week we chat with Lindsay Rothlisberger, Director of RevOps at Zapier, about how her team helps the magic happen. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Lindsay Rothlisberger is a dedicated Revenue Operations Leader with a background enriched in marketing. She thrives on transforming ideas into strategies that improve the customer experience and business metrics. She currently serves as Director of Revenue Operations at Zapier, and has previously held marketing positions at UNiDAYS, Oracle, and Blackboard. https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsay-rothlisberger/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[00:59] - The RevOps scope at Zapier [02:52] - Blending PLG and Sales-Led Funnels [15:11] - How RevOps helps coordinate different GTM motions[22:19] - Org and reporting structure [28:49] - Planning and prioritization[34:05] - Tech stack and governance[41:07] - Tracking signals and CRM architecture Thanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-Apalooza is back in sunny, Anaheim, California, and it's going to be the marketing ops event of the year, packed...

The Future of Signals in GTM - Chris Walker

46 min

B2B buying signals are generating a lot of buzz right now—and for good reason. In today's challenging selling environment, conversion rates are dipping, and identifying active buyers has become more critical than ever. Signal vendors offer a promising solution, but the questions remain: Are these signals truly transformative? How can they enhance your go-to-market strategy? And what the heck is a "signal" anyhow? In this episode, Chris Walker joins me to demystify the concept of buying signals. With his characteristic clarity and candor, Chris sheds light on why he's emphasizing signals as a key driver for efficient growth. Regular listeners will know Chris as a significant influence on my thinking. I’ve learned a lot from him over the years, making it a true pleasure to finally have him on the show. Tune in as we cut through the noise and delve into the real impact of B2B buying signals. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Chris Walker is a serial entrepreneur and go-to-market thought leader. In 2019 he founded Refine Labs, the leading B2B Digital Marketing and Demand Generation agency, growing it to an 8-figure revenue business with a dominating digital presence in less than 3 years. In 2024 he launched Passetto, a tech-enabled GTM Strategy Consultancy that helps B2B executives identify and execute against their highest priority growth levers with confidence and clarity. Chris is host of B2B Revenue Vitals (...

Building Marketo and the Art of Product Design - Glen Lipka

55 min

I have a fascination with how SaaS products actually get made—especially those that become institutions in the software landscape. As users, we become deeply familiar with these products, the nitty-gritty of how they work, and what it's like to live inside them. People base entire careers on these platforms. What we usually DON'T see is the backstory: How do these great products get designed? What were the decisions and trade-offs along the way? How do they catch on?How do you create lovable features? What causes great products to often stagnate? Today's guest is a legendary product leader and innovator. As the first employee of Marketo, Glen Lipka led the product team during a critical early phase, building many of its still most-beloved features. This episode is packed with Marketo lore, product design insights, and lessons about how to build a product that users love. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Glen Lipka is a 25+ year veteran of product innovation and design. As Chief Design Officer and first employee at Marketo, he built the flagship product. He has held numerous other product leadership roles and is currently VP of Product Design for Crowdstrike. https://www.linkedin.com/in/glenlipka/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:14] - Glen’s start at Marketo[02:56] - Marketo’s first features[13:36] - Product differentiation[20:37] - Developing the concept of marketing automation[26:00] - Why great...

Scaling from $100M to $1B ARR as a RevOps Leader - Cody Guymon

51 min

What does it take to scale a company from $100M to over $1B in ARR? Cody Guymon has taken a journey that most revenue operators could only dream of—helping Qualtrics scale to an $8B acquisition and then a $27B IPO. Now he's back at an earlier stage company, hoping to repeat the trip all over again. We chat through his lessons learned, his forecasting methodology, and how he architected a unified RevOps function with the CEO before joining Workato. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Cody Guymon is a strategic sales and operations leader, leading teams at Vivint, Qualtrics, and now Workato. He helped scale Qualtrics from a $1B unicorn to an $8B SAP acquisition and then through an IPO at a $20B+ valuation. Today he serves as the COO of GTM Operations at Workato. https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyguymon/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:07] - What is GTM operations?[03:50] - Working 1-1 with reps in the field[04:46] - Creating a truly unified GTM ops function[16:56] - Go-to-market analytics[19:16] - Pros and cons of unification [23:29] - Project planning and prioritization[30:17] - Forecasting and thinking long-term[39:24] - Experience at Qualtrics and SAP[47:03] - Cody’s daily routines Thanks to Our SponsorBig thanks goes out UserGems for sponsoring today’s episode.  We all know running outbound is a huge pain—you need to manage a dozen different tools and data sources and it takes ton of manual work to keep...

How to Be a Sharper Operator - Wes Kao

48 min

There's a set of skills we rely on everyday at work, often without realizing it: how we think about problems, make decisions, market our ideas, manage up, give feedback...they're all part of the operating system of how we interface with the business world. I’m fascinated by these things both because they have a massive impact on our effectiveness and because they often go unexamined. They’re just part of how we operate. But what if our ways of working are holding us back? What if we could optimize them and radically improve our performance? Today's guest is a serial entrepreneur, marketer, and operator. These days she focuses on exploring and writing about these "deceivingly basic" topics in one of my favourite newsletters, which reaches more than 250,000 people. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Wes Kao is an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, and advisor who writes at newsletter.weskao.com. She is co-founder of Maven, an edtech company that raised $25M from First Round and Andreessen Horowitz. Previously, she co-founded the altMBA with bestselling author Seth Godin. https://www.linkedin.com/in/weskao/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:28] - Why write about “deceivingly basic” topics [06:56] - Rigorous thinking[10:43] - Building a culture of rigorous thinking [21:10] - Bottom line up front[26:39] - Relationship with your manager[37:23] - Change management[41:32] - Empathy[44:09] - Being a LinkedIn creator Th...

Inside GTM Systems at Hubspot - Rich Archbold

52 min

Running business systems at enterprise scale has some unique challenges—especially when that enterprise is Hubspot. Today we're fortunate to chat with Rich Archbold, whose team supports all GTM systems and automation at Hubspot, including Hubspot's own Hubspot implementation. This is a truly fascinating peek behind the scenes at one of the most iconic tech companies. Rich also shares generously from his deep experience, providing insights into how to foster a culture of agility, customer-centricity, and impact within a business systems team. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Rich Archbold is VP of Engineering for GTM Systems at Hubspot. He is passionate about building and scaling high-performing, highly engaged teams that build and operate world-class, mission-critical technology products and services. Prior to Hubspot, he held business systems and engineering leadership roles at Intercom, Facebook, and Amazon. https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardarchbold/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:06] - Transitioning from engineering to business systems[10:42] - GTM systems team structure at Hubspot[15:17] - Centralized vs. decentralized systems ownership[20:51] - Hubspot’s tech stack[23:02] - Can Hubspot work at enterprise scale?[25:11] - Hubspot Prospecting Workspace[31:16] - Use of Workato[33:24] - Lead processing systems[36:23] - Data quality[46:22] - Prioritization Thanks to Our SponsorThis November, MOps-...

Lessons from Leading a Unified RevOps Function - Julia Kim

1 hr 1 min

I'm a really big believer in the idea of a unified RevOps function supporting all the go-to-market teams. But I'll be honest, sometimes it's a little discouraging when I look at how RevOps is done in practice, because outside of a few examples, I usually see essentially a sales ops function with a new name. So I wanted to find people who are actually leading a unified RevOps team in the real world and to understand how they're doing it and how it's working out for them. Today's guest is leading a very mature RevOps function at Electric and has a ton of practical insight to share. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Julia Kim is VP of Revenue Operations for Electric and an Adjunct Instructor at Columbia University. She has over 10 years experience as an operations executive and has launched award-winning consumer and SaaS products mentioned in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Forrester, and TechCrunch. Before Electric, she led GTM operations for 4 profitable acquisitions. In addition to her RevOps experience, she has a technical background with a recent focus in artificial intelligence and predictive data modelling. https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliajuleskim/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:50] - Definition of Revenue Operations[03:40] - RevOps at different stages of maturity[09:09] - Deep dive on Julia’s team structure[14:00] - Collaboration within the RevOps team[21:52] - Addressing concerns about unif...

The Future of Data Privacy in Digital Marketing - Stephane Hamel

46 min

Every company pays lip service to privacy. But few seem to really value it in practice. In marketing and sales, we rely on personal and behavioural data for so many commonplace tactics, and this reliance is only increasing. It's a kind of arms race. Even if you wanted to, it feels like you can't afford to give up the perceived advantages of using personal data. And even as we continually hear about the "death" of this or that type of tracking, the reality is that hundreds of billions of advertising revenue are on the line. The incentives to keep collecting and commodifying our data are huge. I wanted to dig deeper into the current state of privacy in marketing today, and I could think of no better person to reach out to than Stephane Hamel. He is a legendary practitioner and thought leader in the digital analytics space and one of the foremost advocates for privacy and ethics in marketing. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Stephane Hamel is a digital analytics and marketing expert with over 35 years experience. He has spoken at over 150 industry events and was named one of the Most Influential Industry Contributors by the Digital Analytics Association. As an educator, he’s taught thousands of students at institutions including UBC, SimpliLearn, ULaval, Harvard, YorkU, and others. In recent years, he’s focused his attention on the ethical use of data in a marketing context https://www.linkedin.com/in/shame...

Building Refine Labs: An Operational Perspective - Megan Bowen

45 min

Refine Labs has had a seismic impact on B2B marketing. Whether you agree with their philosophy or not, it's hard to deny its influence. They've set the agenda, defined the terms of the debate, and challenged many aspects of the status quo. Former CEO Chris Walker catapulted the agency to prominence with his LinkedIn thought leadership. But behind the scenes, there's also been an intricate operational odyssey to scale Refine Labs from scratch to nearly 100 employees. Today's guest, Megan Bowen, partnered with Chris from the beginning as COO before taking over as CEO in January of 2024. In this no-holds-barred episode, she shares an operational perspective on building Refine Labs, with candid stories and insights about scaling a service-based business, riding the hyper-growth rollercoaster, and weathering economic storms. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Over her 20+ year career, Megan Bowen has built and scaled go-to-market teams at eChalk, ZocDoc, Grubhub/Seamless (IPO: 2014), ManagedbyQ (WeWork Acquisition: 2019) and Platterz. In 2020, she teamed up with the Founder of Refine Labs to change the way B2B companies go-to-market. Today, she is the CEO of Refine Labs, A B2B Demand Generation Agency. https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganwhitebowen/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:32] - Megan’s background[07:06] - Building Refine Labs[14:15] - Stepping into the CEO role [16:34] - Prioritizing the health of y...

Playbook of a High-Performing Marketing Leader - Thao Ngo

51 min

I think marketing is one of the toughest functions to lead successfully. Your job is part art, part science. You need to hire, coach, and retain talent with a huge range of skillsets that you may even not be master of yourself—from the creative to the analytical to the technical. And then your job is to simultaneously create demand, capture demand, help sales convert that demand, help customer success retain and expand that demand...your job is never done. Today we chat with one of my favourite marketing leaders, Thao Ngo. We'll explore her unconventional marketing strategy and also her leadership playbook—how she grows her team and creates an environment where people do their best work. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Thao Ngo is a senior B2B marketing leader with 20+ years of experience in building world-class teams, generating sales-ready leads, and creating brand awareness for tech companies of various sizes. She's led marketing teams at Elastic Path, Vision Critical, and SensorUp, and is currently SVP of Marketing at Uptempo. https://www.linkedin.com/in/thaongo/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:09] - What makes a great marketer?[02:40] - Evolution of marketing skills[04:48] - How to use data[06:25] - Marketing leadership and operating rhythms[09:30] - Trust and psychological safety[12:49] - Coaching and feedback [24:32] - First hires on a marketing team[25:43] - Division of labour between CMO and...

How to Implement a Demand Creation Strategy - Sam Kuehnle

54 min

More and more marketers are embracing demand creation as a strategy, at least in principle. But making a fundamental GTM change is HARD. You need to build executive alignment, define new KPIs, identify how to educate your target audience, fine-tune your content engine, and a whole lot more. As VP of Demand Gen at Refine Labs, Sam Kuehnle has been a big part of the movement evangelizing a shift from lead gen to demand gen and has helped many companies make the transition. Now he's leading a similar shift as an in-house marketing leader. We go deep into what it takes to actually implement this strategy in practice, go beyond leads, and deliver real revenue impact. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Sam Kuehnle is VP of Marketing at Loxo, the Talent Intelligence Platform. From working in-house at a publicly-traded company, to advising seed stage companies trying to figure out how to crack their first $1M in ARR, to everything in-between, Sam is passionate about learning and sharing better ways to do marketing. Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:37] - Sam’s marketing experience before Refine Labs [06:33] - Joining Refine Labs[08:11] - Refine Labs onboarding process[10:21] - A typical engagement + aligning with customer teams[13:36] - How to communicate a demand creation strategy[20:26] - Identifying the right mix of channels / platforms [25:02] - Leading indicators for demand creation[26:45] - Brand aware...

Lessons from a World-Class Seller - Brian LaManna

51 min

I've worked with a bunch of different sellers. Some were good. Some not so much. But one or two were truly next level. They had consistently better results. They brought in bigger deals. They closed accounts no one else could. And they just seemed to "get it" in a different way. They were switched on—you didn't need to tell them what to do. Whatever challenge you threw at them, they found a way. They seemed built just a little bit differently than other people on the team. I've always been curious about what makes those great sellers great. To help answer that question, I sat down with true superstar of the sales world, 5x President's Club winner Brian LaManna, Strategic AE at Gong. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Brian LaManna is a Strategic Account Executive at Gong and Founder of Closed Won, where he offers resources and playbooks for sellers. He is a 5x President's Club winner and regularly achieves 200%+ of quota. https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianlamanna/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:28] - Role of a seller in the revenue process[03:11] - Sales is not convincing[04:03] - Defusing prospect defensiveness[05:48] - When to break the sales process[07:21] - Are good sellers born or made? [09:26] - Attributes of a great seller[11:25] - Developing a “CEO” mindset[13:17] - Cultivating real relationships with customers[16:11] - Mindsets, strategies, and routines [24:18] - Benefits of selling Gong[25:28...

A Deep Dive into Customer Success Operations - Stephen McBride

52 min

SaaS companies spent the past decade optimizing for growth and customer acquisition at all costs. For many, the plan to actually retain and grow those customers has been foggy. Now with many businesses facing the reality of massive churn, it's become incredibly clear that helping customers succeed is just as important as acquiring them in the first place. So we're here today to discuss the third leg of the RevOps stool: customer success ops, and by extension, the discipline of customer success as well. CS Ops doesn't get as much love or attention as marketing or sales ops—one of my past guests jokingly referred to CS Ops as the "red-headed step-child" of RevOps. But I think, and hope, this is starting to evolve. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Stephen McBride is a Customer Success and CS Ops leader dedicated to helping companies grow better. His career has spanned in-house and consulting roles, and he’s spent over seven years in total at Hubspot, five of them as a leader in their Customer Success Org. He recently returned to the agency world with Go Nimbly as a RevOps Delivery Director. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcbridest/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:49] - Defining the role of customer success[02:51] - Role of CS in a PLG motion[03:37] - Strategies of a great CS team[06:00] - CS strategy at Hubspot[07:56] - Why do some big companies neglect CS?[09:29] - CS as cost center vs. growth driver[11:38]...

The GTM Systems Product Manager - Josh Hill

46 min

Prioritization is probably the biggest challenge for ops teams. Say yes to everything—you pretty quickly become a service department. Set your own priorities without input from the business—you can quickly find yourself irrelevant, even out of a job. The best model that I've seen for tackling this problem is what we could call the product management approach to managing MarTech. This is where you effectively treat your stack as an internal product and ops as a product management team working on delivering features for internal customers. Today's guest has practiced this approach at enterprise scale, with an ops team dozens strong. Josh Hill shares his insights and lessons learned, as well as his journey as one of the earliest and well-recognized experts in the Marketo community. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Josh Hill is a GTM operations and systems executive who builds revenue accelerating GTM platforms, global teams, and processes in partnership with Product, Sales, and Marketing. He has a strong track record of turning business strategies into live enterprise capabilities and impactful customer experiences. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jhill2/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:37] - Josh’s professional journey[04:19] - Development of automation pro as a professional identity[06:48] - Scope and scale of the teams Josh led[08:54] - Definition of a product management approach to martech[15:45] -...

Is Marketing Mix Modelling the future of B2B analytics? - Mark Stouse

47 min

Every marketing team  wants attribution. But weirdly, it's often not that satisfying when they actually get it. I led many multi-touch attribution projects as a consultant, and we got really good at implementing tools, creating taxonomies, and making sure that data was clean. But I found that when you actually showed these reports to a C-level executive, it was usually kind of underwhelming. The data didn't always pass the common sense test. Today's guest thinks there's a better way — Marketing Mix Modelling. It's basically the application of mathematical techniques to model relationships between different variables. However, technology now enables it to happen faster and more cost-effectively than ever before. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mark Stouse is CEO of ProofAnalytics.AI. With over 26 years of experience in marketing communications and strategy, he has a passion for transforming GTM performance with data-driven insights and agile decision making. Prior to founding Proof, Mark was CMO at Honeywell Aerospace, CCO at BMC Software, and a marketing leader at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. https://www.linkedin.com/in/markstouse/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:15] - Clarifying the acronym “MMM”[02:39] - Mark’s background and how he founded Proof Analytics [07:57] - Limitations of multi-touch attribution (“MTA”)[14:16] - How MMM avoids the shortcomings of MTA[16:42] - The Fischer Price definition...

Building a Next-Gen Composable Martech Stack - Niels Fogt

44 min

For most of us in B2B, the marketing automation platform - aka "MAP" - is the anchoring piece of technology in the martech stack. When I was first buying a MAP, there were way more options than today, but generally they all bundled a few core features together — sending emails, segmenting audiences, and creating workflows. But is there a reason why you need to do your lifecycle processing in the same tool that you send emails with? What does a Martech stack look like where these roles are distributed differently? Today's guest has answered that question and built an elegant and high-performing composable stack. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Niels Fogt is Sr. Director, Automation Solutions at tray.io. He's led and participated in a wide variety of initiatives within growth and marketing. Strong technical acumen. UX roots. https://www.linkedin.com/in/uxstrategist/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[02:31] - Niels’ journey as a martech architect [06:06] - Challenges with the traditional martech stack[09:13] - Developer mindsets and service-oriented architecture[12:10] - Applying automation capabilities across the organization[14:09] - Components of Tray’s martech stack[15:02] - The role of a customer journey tool[16:07] - Centralized lead processing in Tray[17:23] - Event collection[19:09] - Streaming events into automation tool vs. data warehouse [22:21] - Native vs. custom integrations[29:15] - Benefits of...

AI, Growth Mindset, and the Evolution of SDRs - Kyle Coleman

52 min

Kyle Coleman is one of the most prominent revenue leaders on LinkedIn and a long-time champion of sales development. So there was no one better to chat with about the future of the SDR function, which some claim is facing imminent demise... Spoiler alert: Kyle doesn't share that view. But he DOES think that it needs to change. We look at how sales development will evolve in 2024 and beyond, discuss his SDR to 2-time-CMO journey, and examine how AI will impact sellers and increase productivity. Perhaps most importantly, we also go deep into the mindsets, routines, and strategies Kyle has used to enable his professional growth and productivity. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Kyle Coleman is a sales and Marketing leader with a passion for people development, identifying and solving problems, creating and optimizing processes, and unifying departments across the revenue org. He's currently the CMO at Copy.ai and was previously CMO at Clari. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyletcoleman/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:39] - Role of SDRs in B2B GTM[04:47] - Strategic partnership between SDRs and AEs[07:43] - How does a junior SDR offer value to an executive? [11:20] - Qualities and skills of a good SDR[14:05] - Providing space for SDR autonomy[16:28] - Replacing SDRs with AI?[19:25] - Kyle’s mindset for professional success[24:21] - Importance of documentation[26:08] - Figuring out what to say “no” to[28:5...

Navigating the World of Marketing Ops Consulting - Lauren Aquilino and Sydney Mulligan

51 min

There comes a time in every marketing ops professional's life when they wonder if the grind of an in-house job is worth it after all. Whether it's politics, overwork, lack of resources, lack of respect, a toxic boss, or one of a million other things...it might make you think, "maybe I'd be happier as a consultant." But is the grass actually greener? What does it take to get started in consulting? Are you better off at an agency or as an independent? How do you find clients? To answer these questions (and many more), I'm joined by Lauren Aquilino and Sydney Mulligan. With over 20 years of consulting experience between us, we have a no-holds-barred discussion on the pros and cons and how to succeed. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's GuestsLauren and Sydney are co-founders of EMMIE Collective - a for-hire collective of the most sought-after independent consultants and boutique firms in the marketing ops and ops adjacent space - and co-hosts of the Pretty Funny Business podcast. https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenaquilino/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sydneymulligan/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:08] - Origin story of EMMIE Collective [10:45] - Has the reality of the agency model met their expectations? [12:48] - Becoming an independent consultant vs. joining an agency[15:05] - The experience of transitioning from in-house to consultant[17:20] - In-house career growth limitations for technical marketing ops[18...

Community-Led Growth (or, How to Host a Million-Dollar Event) - Mike Rizzo

43 min

B2B communities are everywhere these days. It's easy to forget that 10 years ago, it wasn't nearly so easy to connect with peers, ask for unfiltered recommendations, celebrate wins, and commiserate about dumpster fires. Mike Rizzo has made community his career - both in developing B2B customer communities and in building the top community of practice for marketing operations. In this episode, we examine how B2B companies can leverage community as part of their GTM strategy, what makes a community tick, and the inside scoop on what it took to host MOps-Apalooza. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mike Rizzo is a career marketing operations professional passionate about community. In 2017 he also founded the growing community of MO Pros - a place where thousands of Marketing Operations Professionals connect, collaborate and help elevate the practice of Marketing Ops. He is also the co-host of the podcast called Ops Cast. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikedrizzo/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:42] - Why start a MOPS community? [05:17] - Community is like a product[08:40] - Each community is a vibe[10:40] - Maturity of marketing ops vs. sales ops[16:37] - Lack of strategic MOPS leadership roles in the marketplace[19:13] - MOPS pros should be like product managers[21:08] - Community-led as a GTM motion[25:40] - Balancing community and economic concerns[33:22] - MOps-Apalooza[39:59] - What motivated Mike to p...

A Scalable Solution to B2B Funnel Tracking - Charlie Saunders

49 min

Every B2B company has a funnel tracking process. And quite often, that process is seriously limited or broken. Leads get lost, data is inaccurate, and businesses struggle to produce insights and accurate reporting. I've seen this first hand, and so has this week's guest - Charlie Saunders. We've both spent years as consultants fixing broken funnels. In this episode, we talk about the many reasons funnel tracking goes wrong and dive deep into the architecture of the scalable solution Charlie's team has developed. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Charlie Saunders is co-founder and the Chief Revenue & Operations Officer at CS2, where he builds Revenue Growth Architecture for growth-stage B2B tech companies that powers efficient and predictable revenue growth. https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliesaunders/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:35] - Why funnel tracking matters[05:05] - How funnel metrics and attribution interact[08:21] - Key funnel metrics[10:18] - Accuracy vs. perfection in funnel tracking[14:06] - Why we can’t rely just on a Lead Status field[19:03] - Using a Salesforce custom object for funnel tracking[20:23] - Explanation of using a lifecycle campaign to bridge leads and contacts[21:01] - Should everyone start with a custom object?[26:55] - Why a custom object doesn’t need to be that intensive to implement[29:34] - Custom object impact on sales process and UX[33:25] - Tipping point = the init...

Legends of GTM: Eloqua's Founder Talks Category Creation - Mark Organ

46 min

Many entrepreneurs dream of creating categories. But few have actually done it - much less built a category worth billions of dollars. Mark Organ is one of those rare few. As founding CEO of Eloqua, he pioneered marketing automation in the early 2000s, paving the way for other players and selling to Oracle for nearly $900 million. Mark and I chat through how he co-founded Eloqua, the pivots and experiments needed to achieve product-market fit, and how category creators may be wired a bit differently. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Mark Organ is the founding CEO of Eloqua (the first successful marketing automation platform) and Influitive. His greatest professional passions include creating new billion-dollar categories in technology and developing new leaders. Today he helps CEOs achieve their full potential in their businesses and their lives as the CEO of Categorynauts. https://www.linkedin.com/in/markorgan/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:05] - Founding Eloqua and marketing automation[07:47] - Origin of the lead generation playbook[10:39] - Getting to product-market fit[16:03] - Genesis of lead scoring[19:08] - Toolkit software vs. opinionated software[24:25] - Pivots and brushes with death are the norm[27:09] - When is it right to build a category?[30:14] - Building a category around an under-served hero[33:51] - Creating a category for the second time[36:42] - Challenges with churn at Influiti...

The Rise of PLG and the Next Gen of Marketing Automation - Dave Rigotti

40 min

Historically, Product-led Growth (PLG) companies have been underserved. Marketing automation platforms, growth playbooks, reporting frameworks, and “best practices” have been largely designed around the needs of their sales-led cousins. But PLG has had a renaissance in the past few years, and all that's changed. PLG now has its own communities, methodologies, frameworks, and tools. Today's guest, Dave Rigotti, has quickly become one of the godfathers of PLG as a thought leader and co-founder of Inflection.io. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Dave Rigotti is an entrepreneur and marketing leader dedicated to furthering the B2B marketing industry. Dave was VP of Marketing at Bizible (acquired by Marketo), Director of ABM at Adobe, and now is co-founder and marketing leader at Inflection.io. https://www.linkedin.com/in/daverigotti/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:39] - What is PLG? [04:00] - Why PLG has gotten so popular recently[05:50] - Reasons Dave focused his new company on PLG[07:26] - Why sales-led software doesn’t scale for PLG [07:40] - Playbooks of top PLG companies[14:34] - Inflection’s data structure[19:12] - Opportunities and challenges of PLG ops[22:46] - Funnels, attribution, and PLG[25:31] - Scoring in PLG[26:47] - Top-down vs. bottom-up PLG motions[29:34] - Dave’s journey from startup to enterprise to startup[33:17] - Sustaining product agility as a startup[35:01] - How it feels to see Bi...

A Glimpse Into the Future of Martech - Phil Gamache

53 min

Martech continues to expand and shift at breakneck speed. Hot startups from five years ago have become legacy incumbents. Some platforms consolidate into monolithic suites while other categories break apart into specialized point solutions. AI looms over everything, with potential to disrupt virtually every established paradigm. Who better to guide us through this landscape than Phil Gamache, one of the humans behind the awesome Humans of Martech podcast? Join us for a deep dive into the future of Martech and a behind-the-scenes glimpse at how Phil and Jon produce their show using the latest AI tools. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Phil Gamache is on a mission to future-proof the humans behind the tech and help them have successful and happy careers in marketing. During the day, he runs all things Growth at Pelago and during the weekends you can find him behind the mic on humansofmartech.com. https://www.linkedin.com/in/gamacp/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:40] - Origin of the Humans of Martech Podcast[03:42] - Importance of soft skills in becoming a martech leader[04:33] - Growing an audience for the show[08:00] - Importance of having a specific approach for the show. Enjoying the process of learning through being a host.[11:00] - Use of AI for creating podcast imagery and transcription[17:32] - What do we consider AI-generated imagery to be? [20:30] - Point of view on martech and being platfo...

A Playbook for Winning as a Marketing Ops Leader - Jessica Kao

36 min

If you're looking to transition from a technical MOPS expert to a leader - or if you're an existing MOPS leader who wants to up their game - Jessica Kao is the person to learn from. She built a career as an expert MOPS consultant before becoming an enterprise marketing ops leader. Listen to this conversation and you'll quickly see: she's ridiculously good at the business side of marketing operations. She knows how to plan, how to communicate, and how to lead. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Jessica Kao is Senior Director, Marketing Operations and Martech at Cloudflare. She has 10+ years of experience inspiring a nation of marketers through authenticity. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesskao/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:40] - How Jessica defines the mandate of marketing ops. It is the accelerant to marketing. Everything flows through the pipes of marketing operations. [03:02] - How to determine if marketing ops is doing a good job. “Winning” means the CMO views you as a strategic partner and when you’re a bullet point in the board slide deck. But all projects should be aligned to the CMO’s initiatives and marketing KPIs. Marketing ops succeeds when the marketing team reaches its goals. [06:03] - Marketing ops shouldn’t just view themselves as the executor of another team’s strategy. Marketing ops can bring clarity, due to their position of visibility, the data we have, to spot trends, to provide fe...

How to Use AI - A Guide for Marketers

19 min

Everyone is talking about how transformative AI is, but the information is still very piecemeal. There are tons of app focused listicles or cool tricks for ChatGPT, but if you're like me, you don't have time to go looking for ways to put apps to work. So I set out to take a comprehensive look at the business of marketing, breaking it down into the fundamental jobs to be done and creating practical guidance for marketers on how they might incorporate AI into their daily work in each area. This episode covers four main applications that have me excited, but if you visit the link below, you can access an Airtable base with over 35 use cases and over 40 apps. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:30] - Why make this episode[03:17] - Unstructured text analysis[05:27] - Structured data analysis[09:47] - Visual media generation[11:37] - AI and workflow automation[15:09] - AI for creative writing[17:15] - Two visions of AI usage Resource LinksA Very Gentle Introduction to Large Language Models without the Hype - A useful primer to AI and large language models.

A Deep Dive into HockeyStack's GTM Playbook - Emir Atli

42 min

I follow the attribution software category pretty closely, and sometime in the last 6-12 months it felt like I started seeing HockeyStack everywhere in my LinkedIn feed. They have multiple team members and executives posting regularly, producing unique and engaging content, and they are building in public, sharing tons of juicy details about their GTM strategy. How did a relatively young startup come to appear so dominant so quickly? I invited HockeyStock's CRO to chat and unpack all the details. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest Emir Atli is the co-founder and CRO of HockeyStack, the a B2B GTM Analytics platform. https://www.linkedin.com/in/emircatli/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:27] - Origins of HockeyStack.[02:42] - What they saw that could be disrupted in the attribution space: a platform that didn't depend on Salesforce data and that was faster to implement. People buy these tools for two reasons: proving contribution and optimizing. There is most room to innovate around optimization. [04:56] - HockeyStack's go-to-market strategy. Starting with a goal to dominate LinkedIn, with co-founders posting daily. All GTM team members are expected to post. They focus not just on brand awareness but on making marketers smarter. Each team member has their own personality which shapes the content strategy. Finding the balance between entertainment and education. [09:53] - The Flow, HockeyStack's content pla...

Legends of GTM - Jill Rowley and the Nearbound Movement

33 min

Jill Rowley is a legend in SaaS, with early tenures at Salesforce and Eloqua. As one of Eloqua's first salespeople, she helped shape the category of marketing automation and was also an early pioneer of social selling. Today she is helping evangelize a new perspective on partner-led growth, which she calls "nearbound." Jill and I talk about what it was like selling cloud-based software in the early oughts, helping the first customers to use marketing automation, and what it means to go to market with partners. Thanks to Our SponsorMany thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak. If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform. You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button. What's more, it supports global teams, approval workflows, and it’s got your integrations. Click the link below to get a special offer just for my listeners. Try Knak About Today's Guest 23 years in SaaS. Early employee at Salesforce (first 100), Eloqua (#13), HubSpot Advisor (2014-2016), Marketo (2018). Loves startups, especially category creators - - in the trenches building Nearbound. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillrowley/ Key Topics[00:00] - Introduction[01:23] - Start of Jill's career at Salesforce. [03:08] - How Jill pitched SaaS in the early days of cloud software. Salesforce's guerilla marketing tactics. [04:47] - Moving to Eloqua as employee thirteen. Creating the category of marketing automation. Evangelizing for the importance of marketers on revenue. [10:05] - Early days of service partnerships at Eloqua. Co-selling with David Lewis. [11:54] - Types of service partner relationships. How there can be power-disparities and bad dynamics between smaller service partners and larger vendors. How many companies still view service partners as a...

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