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Scratch: CMO Interviews

Scratch: CMO Interviews

All episodes.

122 episodes · showing the newest 122

What Comes Next for Duolingo? The Plan for Growth after "Unhinged Marketing"

30 min

In a special edition of Scratch, Eric Fulwiler is joined by Rahul Chopra, Vice President at Duolingo, for the ANA's Global Day of Learning, for a fireside chat on what it takes to scale one of the world's most distinctive challenger brands. With a mission to bring learning to a billion people around the world, Duolingo is entering its next phase of growth: expanding beyond language learning, evolving its product and marketing strategy, and exploring how AI can help it reach more learners. Chopra shares how Duolingo brings product, marketing, and experimentation together to drive growth, why a great product has to sit behind great marketing, and how the company can continue evolving without losing what makes it distinctive. From the thinking behind its famous social campaigns to AI's potential to transform research, personalisation, and learning, the conversation explores what it takes to keep growing without losing sight of the mission. We get into: → How Duolingo is working towards its mission to bring learning to a billion people — and expanding beyond language learning into subjects like math → How product marketing helps Duolingo tell a stronger story about the value of its product → Why great marketing starts with a great product, and how Duolingo connects its marketing, app experience, and product development to drive growth → How the thinking behind the viral "killed Duo" campaign demonstrates the potential of turning creative ideas into meaningful business growth → Why great social marketing takes more than a single creative genius — and how audience insight, clear guardrails, and collective thinking make the difference → Why challenger brands need to keep evolving, balancing a distinctive brand personality with new forms of storytelling → Where AI can accelerate content creation, personalise learning, and improve the way teams research and experiment → Why AI-generated content volume is overrated, and why its potential as a listening, research, and R&D tool...

Rebundling Culture: How Cîroc is Building a Next-Gen Community in a Fragmented World

49 min

In the latest episode of Scratch, Nick Tran, President and CMO of First Round, breaks down what culture actually looks like when people put their phones down, why brands are over-indexing on micro-cultures, and what it takes to create work that cuts through the sea of sameness. From building Cîroc Athletic Club into a media and events platform to rethinking the traditional conference format at Cannes, Tran shares how brands can respond to changing social behaviors by creating spaces people genuinely want to be part of. We get into: → Why culture is really about the “campfire conversations” happening off-screen→ Why the next big opportunity might be moving from micro-culture back to macro-cultural moments→ How Cîroc Athletic Club turned changing drinking habits into a 20M+ monthly-view media ecosystem→ Why the best experiential marketing gives people space to play, connect, and surprise each other→ What the “30 moons” approach to AI means for creativity, taste, and human judgment→ Why brands should stop worrying about who did an idea first and focus on who does it best→ Why intimate, practitioner-led conversations are replacing the traditional marketing conference The key takeaways:Culture happens around the campfire — Culture isn't just music, sport, fashion, or whatever is trending on your feed. It's the conversations people have when the screens go away. That's where brands should be looking for cultural insight.Micro-culture isn't the only answer — The industry has spent years fragmenting audiences into increasingly niche communities. When everyone is doing the same thing, going bigger can be the more distinctive move.AI needs a human with taste — The first AI output is rarely the best one. Tran's “30 moons” principle is about pushing through iteration after iteration until you find something genuinely distinctive. AI can generate. Humans still need to know what's great.Socializing is changing — Younger consumers aren't necessarily going out just to drink. Active...

How Ladder became Apple's favorite app and made Hilary Duff the face of fitness

52 min

In the latest episode of Scratch, Philip Edsel, VP of Brand & Creative at Ladder, breaks down why most marketing misses the mark and what separates brands that feel cultural from those that feel tone-deaf. As fitness platforms multiply and algorithms fragment audiences, Ladder's strategy isn't to chase trends. It's to listen obsessively to what members actually want—and let that drive every creative decision. We get into: → Why cultural relevance can't be outsourced (or bought from a report) → How to build culture listening into your creative process without overthinking it → Why structuring teams around culture matters more than having the right budget → The brands that win: Skims, Bandit, Nothing-and why art direction is strategy → What happens when you listen to members instead of investors The key takeaways: Self-awareness is the number one attribute of great marketing - Most work fails because it lacks it. It's not about being clever. It's about understanding how your brand is actually perceived and what conversations are happening around it. Culture listening is structural, not magical - Put 30 minutes on your calendar every week. Get obsessed with what your audience actually cares about. Make it non-negotiable. By the time most brands catch on, they're six weeks too late. Either you have the people or you don't - You can't bottle up cultural taste. Either your team feels the pulse of what's moving culture, or it doesn't. If you don't have those people, recruit differently or organize differently. Yeti structured their entire team around communities. Most brands didn't even think of it. Listen to what your members want, not what trends are screaming - Ladder runs 45-minute surveys by the thousands. They're drowning in feedback about what members actually want. That drives product and creative not investor mandates. Simplify your language - Bad copywriting is Philip's biggest pet peeve. If it's a teaser that says "something's coming"—that's meaning...

Checkout.com’s Playbook for Beating Global Giants: Pick One Fight.

39 min

Rory O'Neill, CMO of Checkout.com, doesn't just solve for payments- he's solving for brand preference in a crowded payments space. And he's doing it by competing on what's different, not what others do better. That insight changes everything, from how you position payments to how you build a team that can sustain growth as a challenger. In the latest episode of Scratch, Rory breaks down the playbook that lets Checkout compete with global giants. Brand preference wins 95% of B2B deals before salespeople ever show up- so your marketing owns the invisible 60% of the buyer's journey. Challenger brands win by picking one fight and building culture around it, not chasing everything competitors do. He reveals the three-part formula: focus your core business, build your culture, reinvest profit. Consumer marketing skills-data, insight, action-are B2B's secret superpower. And his rule: if you wouldn't say it at dinner, don't write it in marketing. The key takeaway: Brand preference wins deals - 95% of the time, the brands on the day-one top-five list are the ones that win. B2B buyers spend 60% of their journey before contacting a salesperson. Define your focus as a challenger - Compete on what's different, not on what competitors do better. Checkout only does digital payments to stay focused while competitors spread across multiple business lines. Three elements beat category norms - Focus on your core business, build the human operating system (culture, people, vision), then reinvest capital in new products. Consumer marketer skills are powerful in B2B - Data, insight, action, brand building, and performance marketing from the consumer world unlock B2B success. Understand stakeholder maps - B2B is complex: CTOs influence CFOs, recommenders influence buyers. Map those relationships to win. Simplify your language - Ditch jargon like "frictionless" and "seamless." Use words you'd use at dinner. Marketing becomes more interesting and understood. Marketing is logic an...

The CMO Who Faked a Data Breach for Black Friday. The Payflex Playbook.

45 min

In the latest episode of Scratch, Tracey-Lee gets into what it really takes to build trust in a controversial space, how she sells brand investment to a CFO who only speaks performance, and the Black Friday campaign where Payflex faked a data breach and somehow lived to tell the tale. The key takeaway: 1. Radical honesty is not a risk, it's a requirement In a controversial category, you have to be as loud with your rebuttals as your critics are with their attacks. Silence reads as guilt. 2. BNPL customers aren't who the headlines say they are Payflex users are not over-indebted people stretching to survive. They're actualizing. Identity-driven. The emotional need sits at the top of Maslow's hierarchy, not the bottom. 3. The two-year brand cliff is real Cut brand budget today, nothing happens for six months, maybe a year. Then sales tank. And to recover it, you spend two to three times what you cut. The lag is the weapon CMOs need to use in every CFO conversation. 4. Brief writing is a tattoo, not a tick box WATTW. What are we trying to achieve here. If you can't answer that before you brief, you shouldn't be briefing. 5. Marketing is an advocate for the market, not a go-to-market function Marketers need to be in the product room early, sometimes aggressively, because no product strategy survives contact with a customer insight that nobody bothered to bring in. 6. Learn the finances early The biggest unlock in Tracey-Lee's career was understanding what CFOs actually care about: customer equity, market share, lifetime value. Not ROAS. 7. Boldness needs justification, not just instinct The data breach campaign worked because it had a clear strategic logic behind it. Payflex is an innovator and Black Friday demands standout or silence. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/fPIrrl9Qg3I Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster...

Social Is Becoming a Revenue Channel. Most CMOs Aren't Ready

42 min

In this episode of Scratch, Viren sits down with Misbah Uraizee from Nectar Social to dismantle one of marketing's most persistent myths. The truth? Organic and paid media are complementary engines, and brands that still silo them are leaving serious growth on the table. Misbah breaks down the post-iOS 14 reality and reveals the exact playbooks modern challenger brands are using to scale today. In this episode, we cover: The Post-iOS 14 Reality: Why the entire class of brands built on cheap paid ads simply no longer exists. Year-One CPG Playbooks: What the fastest-growing brands actually do in their first year (hint: it has nothing to do with media spend). Killing Vanity Metrics: Why follower count is the metric that refuses to die—and what you should be measuring instead. TikTok Shop’s True Role: How to properly integrate it into your modern marketing mix. Measuring the Unmeasurable: How to spot the "halo effects" that prove social is working before the revenue data catches up. The AI Equalizer: Why "taste" is the last true differentiator for marketers in a world where everyone has the same AI tools. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube: https://youtu.be/v5lbv-u9bOk Links & Resources: 🖊️Mentioned in the show: MetiCube Amp By Rival The Rival 50: The Best Challenger Brands of 2025 Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn Find Viren on LinkedIn Find Misbah on Linkedin Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Misbah Uraizee of Nectar Social in this episode Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver...

750 Billion Dollars in Marketing Spend Is Being Wasted Every Year

45 min

Pranav breaks down why the way we've always tested products and campaigns is fundamentally broken, how 90% of all decision-making happens in the subconscious, and why asking people what they think is almost completely useless. Neuro Insight's brain-mapping technology cuts through the noise, accessing the hidden drivers of human behaviour that people can't even articulate themselves. They also get into why marketing didn't just break on its own - culture broke first - and what it's going to take to fix it, from rediscovering the lost craft of storytelling to building the kind of CMO courage that puts real money behind real conviction. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/BLXF2kAqoWc 🖊️Mentioned in the show: AI Marathon Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Pranav Yadev of Neuro Insight in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn Find Viren on LinkedIn Find Yadev on Linkedin Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

115 stores and coffee at 30,000feet; Bootlegger's Playbook for Dominating the Category

49 min

Miguel gets into the brand discipline behind the growth. Why Bootlegger turned down trends their own customers were asking for. How a year of navigating aviation regulations put their coffee at 30,000 feet. What drove the decision to strip the brand back to a gold dot. And why consistency, not innovation, is the framework that keeps them relevant while competitors slip. For CMOs navigating saturated categories and the pressure to chase every trend, Miguel's approach is a useful counterweight. Bootlegger doesn't follow. It holds the line, makes two or three big plays a year, and backs quality at every touchpoint from the roastery to the runway. The result is a brand that's grown faster by doing less. Sharp, honest, and packed with thinking you can actually use. If you're building a brand in a crowded category and trying to scale without giving ground, this one's for you. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube - ▶️: https://youtu.be/MXCBY5Xkgto 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Tashers Seattle Mugg & Bean FlySafair Black Coffee Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Miguel Netto of Bootlegger in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn Find Viren on Linkedin Find Miguel on Linkedin Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

“The Apple of Toothbrushes”: How Suri is Disrupting the $10 Billion Oral Health Care Industry

50 min

Gyve shares how SURI found its edge by listening closely to real customer frustrations and rethinking the product from the ground up, from design and performance to sustainability. Instead of treating sustainability as the headline, SURI builds products people genuinely want to use first, then makes them better for the planet. It also dives into how SURI is translating that momentum into retail, competing on shelf through design, clarity, and brand recognition, while continuing to evolve as a work in progress, including early validation from Jony Ive that reinforced their belief in design as a core differentiator. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/0n5MyEr06NM 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Brands to watch Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Gyve Safavi of Suri in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn. Find Viren on LinkedIn Find Gyve on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

“Listen Loudly”: How the World's Largest Credit Union Thinks Like a Challenger Brand

41 min

The conversation explores why Navy Federal focuses on being "precious to few, but relevant to many". By prioritizing active duty military and their families, they build a foundation of trust that naturally scales to the broader veteran community. In a landscape where brands often prioritize efficiency, Navy Federal focuses on authenticity. This philosophy shines through in their "brandformance" strategy, a blend of brand and performance that balances rational product needs with emotional trust. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️:https://youtu.be/jlpq3Mzc_hg Favorite challenger brand: Rocket Mortgages Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Pam Piligian of Navy Federal Credit Union in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Pam Piligian on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

How Satisfy Built The Most Adored Brand In Running

44 min

Instead of following trends, Satisfy chooses to build a brand that’s different. Daniel said it best: “The easiest way to do something quite different is to not look at anything at all.” In a landscape where brands benchmark competitors and chase fleeting trends, Satisfy focuses on culture. They hire for it before skill, treat customers as guests, and think in decades rather than moments. This philosophy shines through in the Satisfy Pro Team. It’s not just a sponsorship roster, but a reflection of the brand’s commitment to process and discipline. The key takeaway: Most brands chase relevance, but Satisfy builds consistency. They react to culture, while Satisfy hires for it. They aim for long-term impact, not short-term hype. This conversation is a masterclass in long-term brand strategy and the discipline of saying no. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/CRUMwdDoj5o 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Satisfy Pro Team - https://satisfyrunning.com/pages/satisfy-pro-team-Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Daniel Groh of SATISFY in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Daniel on Linkedin Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

How Brompton Built One of the Biggest Brands In Cycling

47 min

In this episode of Scratch, Eric sits down with Chris Willingham, Chief Marketing Officer at Brompton Bicycle, to discuss the brand strategy behind Brompton’s global expansion. Chris shares how Brompton has grown from a distinctly 'British brand' into a global challenger across markets like China, Japan, the US, and Europe, and why international growth requires a clear point of view on what the brand stands for everywhere, not just what it sells. They dig into how Brompton built a global brand platform designed to scale, including how the team grounded its positioning in both product truth and human truth. Chris explains the thinking behind Living Life Unfolded, why the brand shifted focus from the mechanics of folding to the experience that unfolds once you ride, and how Brompton balances global consistency with the flexibility needed to resonate locally. He also shares how the brand is being rolled out in phases, prioritising focus and internal alignment over big-budget launches. The conversation also explores what this approach means for marketing leadership. Chris reflects on choosing agency partners that fit a challenger brand, the importance of distinctiveness and creative bravery in crowded categories, and how community and culture play a role in global relevance. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube: https://youtu.be/2WLVQ_mnJaM 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Favorite challenger brand: On Amp By Rival The Rival 50: The Best Challenger Brands of 2025 Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Chris Willingham of Brompton Bicycle in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn. Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Chris on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in t...

Inside Webflow’s Bet on an AI-Native Web and What That Means For CMOs

45 min

In this episode of Scratch, Eric sits down with Adrian Rosenkranz, Chief Revenue Officer at Webflow, to explore how AI is fundamentally changing the way brands grow, compete and get discovered. As large language models reshape how people find and evaluate products, Adrian argues that marketing is shifting from a game of clicks and traffic to a game of relevance and answers, where your website, content and brand have to work for both humans and machines at the same time. We’re effectively marketing to bots at this point! They dig into what this means in practice for CMOs, from how SEO and content strategies need to evolve, to why many AI initiatives stall inside large organisations. If you’re currently trying to bring AI to your marketing team (Who isn’t?) then Adrian has some practical guidance and perspectives to share to ensure that your AI initiatives actually deliver something valuable. The conversation also goes beyond tools and tactics into leadership, creativity and culture. Adrian reflects on lessons from Salesforce, the importance of narrative and design thinking, and why creativity, taste and speed of adaptation are becoming the true sources of differentiation in an AI-native world. It’s a wide-ranging discussion about how marketing, growth and brand leadership need to evolve for the next era of the web. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Favorite challenger brand: Ramp Best campaign: Duolingo Amp By Rival The Rival 50: The Best Challenger Brands of 2025 Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Adrian Rosenkranz of Webflow in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Adrian on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want...

Rewriting The Sports Marketing Playbook: How Manors Is Becoming The Most Memorable Brand In Golf

1 hr 3 min

In this episode of Scratch, Viren sits down with Alex Ames, Marketing Director at Manors Golf, the challenger brand bringing new energy, creativity, and cultural relevance to a sport long seen as elitist and inaccessible. Manors believes golf is a game to be explored, not mastered, and they are reshaping the category one cinematic campaign at a time. Alex unpacks how Manors went from a small rebrand to a movement inspiring a new generation of golfers. He dives into the brand’s early struggles (“the Dark Ages”), how events helped them rediscover momentum, and how the team realised that attention—not product, was their true currency. He reveals the internal creative engine behind Manors’ iconic films, from Monday forensic reviews to Thursday idea punch-ups, and how viral thinking shapes every concept. The episode covers everything from the Reebok partnership (and why they avoid “brand soup”), to location-led campaigns, to how everyday golfers and celebrities ended up sharing the tee sheet at Manors events. For marketers, the message is clear: if you want to change a category, change the story people tell about it. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: YT Link 📚 Chapters: 00:00 – Intro & Viren’s fanboy moment 01:38 – Challenger brand shoutout: Satisfy Running 03:03 – What Manors Golf actually does 05:24 – Why golf needed a cultural refresh 07:42 – Golf as exploration: the foundation of Manors’ brand 14:31 – How insights were reframed for a new audience 15:47 – How social media opened golf to younger players 16:36 – Why storytelling became foundational to Manors 18:55 – The “Dark Ages” & the moment everything shifted 21:22 – Why events matter for brand building 22:23 – Their unique influencer strategy (no follower-chasing) 24:55 – The community-first mindset 26:03 – The unseen advantage of having a strong brand 30:23 – How Manors built its content machine 32:36 – Inside the Monday forensic review & Thursday punch-up 34:51 – How virality informs campai...

Roots before Reach: YETI's Playbook To Building an Iconic Brand

34 min

In this episode, Bill Neff, Head of Marketing at YETI, breaks down how the legendary cooler company became a culture-defining outdoor brand without relying on massive media budgets. From his Under Armour “locker room” days to leading one of the world’s most beloved challenger brands, Bill shares the operating system behind YETI’s rise, which is one built on community intimacy, real relationships, and equipment designed to last forever. And this year, YETI made The Rival 50, our index of the world’s top challenger brands redefining growth, a recognition that reflects the consistency, courage, and craft behind their approach. One key takeaway: Roots before reach. Bill explains why YETI invests four times more in community than brand, how third-party advocacy beats first-party hype, and why focusing on the micro-cultures around hunting, fishing, culinary, and outdoor craft fuels more growth than broad awareness ever could. If you’re building a premium brand or trying to scale without outspending your category, this conversation is your blueprint. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube ▶️: HERE 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️05:00 Challenger brand pick: Turtlebox 🏆06:30 What YETI is today09:00 Listening that guides expansion (cast iron) 📊12:00 Depth via community14:00 Under Armour lessons: “locker room talk”16:30 Premium pricing & third-party advocacy 💵20:00 Getting started with advocacy 🤝23:00 People stories > product dumps28:00 Community-first team structure (4x brand)31:00 Mass brand without mass media34:00 Wrap up🖊️Mentioned in the show: ANA Global Day of Learning (Association of National Advertisers)Turtlebox, favorite challenger brandUnder Armour, Bill’s previous work experienceSitka Gear, Bill’s previous work experienceDuck Man (YETI campaign)Drake Magazine (endemic example)Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric F...

From Cornwall to the World: How Finisterre’s community marketing strategy built a global brand

47 min

In this episode of Scratch, Eric chats with Bronwen Foster-Butler, CMO of Finisterre, the cold-water surf brand from Cornwall proving that purpose and performance can coexist. Bronwen shares how community became Finisterre’s real growth engine, from “creating through community, not for it,” to rethinking top-of-funnel marketing and focusing on relationships over reach. She shows how listening to your customers can lower CAC, build loyalty, and create true advocates. Finisterre began with a simple insight: the surf industry’s glossy, tropical image that didn’t reflect the real, rugged world of UK surfers. Today, it’s a B Corp and leading challenger brand proving that you can grow profitably without losing your soul. And finally, she dives into how a strong sense of place in Cornwall’s coastline and the shipping forecast origins of the Finisterre name and thus gives the brand its distinct voice. Ultimately, the takeaway for marketers is clear: scaling through a niche isn’t limiting but it is the future. Staying true to who you are as a brand, and give a platform to your community to carry the story forward. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: HERE 📚 Chapters: 00:00 – Devon vs Cornwall (and scones)04:00 – Challenger brand spotlight: Snow Peak07:36 – What is Finisterre?08:09 – The founder’s cold-water surf epiphany10:04 – Lessons from Lululemon’s turnaround12:44 – Rebuilding trust through community13:35 – “Create through community, not for community”21:09 – Ocean meets mountain: Kendal Film Festival23:50 – CAC, CLTV & data on community ROI28:49 – Cornwall, heritage, and the Shipping Forecast31:50 – Scaling through a niche37:00 – Doing more with less: top-of-funnel investment39:00 – Creative consistency and campaign focus41:33 – Alignment, enrollment, and growth metrics43:20 - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Lululemon – Community-led brand lessonsBurberry – Global brand transformationSnow Peak – Favorite Challenger BrandKendal Mountain Fes...

Inside Salesforce’s Marketing Machine: CMO Ariel Kelman on AI, Data, and the Future of Marketing

47 min

In this episode of Scratch, Ariel Kelman, President & CMO of Salesforce, shows how a category leader can still think like a challenger through the power of education, not persuasion. Education beats persuasion when you make community the flywheel: by pairing product truth with peer proof through events like Dreamforce, Trailhead, and forums, so customers learn how to win with your product (not just why it’s great). That mindset turns advocacy into momentum. But teaching only lands if the tech actually works in the flow of “work”, so Ariel’s rule is being able to put data before demos. He emphasizes the need to harmonize and govern customer data in Data Cloud so AI agents have context, then deploy them where they matter. For example, a product Q&A agent spun up in weeks drove 700k+ customer chats, and their website/service agents have resolved 1.6M cases because they understand real customer history, permissions, and next best actions. Finally, as a brand, you need to be Customer Zero and balance quick wins with long bets. Dogfood your offerings first to iterate fast and convert internal proofs into external playbooks, then scale what works. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube ▶️: https://youtu.be/92Rfv19ypQE 📚 Chapters: 00:00 – Intro & Ariel’s challenger lens 🎙️05:35 – Agentforce: AI agents in the flow of work 🤖10:40 – Data Cloud: the prerequisite for accurate AI ☁️12:56– Momentum: quick wins while building the platform 🚀13:23 – “Infinite SDR capacity” & rethinking lead flow 🔁14:39 – Autonomous vs. augmenting agents (Finnair) 🤝26:54 – Customer Zero: dogfooding at scale 🐶27:47 – Dreamforce: education as strategy 🎪36:10 – Community as the marketing flywheel 🧑🤝🧑41:35 – Salesforce’s AI point of difference (trust + data) 🛡️45:21 – Cutting through AI noise with use-case education 📚🖊️Mentioned in the show: Challenger brand mentioned: Ramp – spend management platform with software-defined controls Salesforce Agentforce – AI agents embedded in Sal...

Ocean Bottle’s Secret to Scaling Impact With 2 Billion Plastic Bottles

37 min

In this episode of Scratch, Eric chats with Will Pearson, Co-Founder of Ocean Bottle, the brand turning reusable bottles into vehicles for global impact. One of the biggest takeaways from Will’s story is how Ocean Bottle has made impact completely non-negotiable in its business model; every purchase is tied directly to measurable change. Rather than chasing the traditional direct-to-consumer routes, the brand leaned into B2B partnerships as its true growth engine, scaling faster through collaborations like Ed Sheeran’s tour than through paid ads. Will also highlights that in a purpose-driven category, the goal isn’t to outcompete others but to grow the category as a whole. Ocean Bottle’s marketing reflects this mindset, relying on storytelling backed by proof, from the Change Collective initiative to transparent reporting on every kilo of plastic collected. Ultimately, the key learning for marketers is clear: purpose isn’t dead; it is evolving. And partnerships are how purpose-led brands grow. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: [https://youtu.be/OQrmbdzNkg8] 📚 Chapters: 00:00 – Intro & Will’s background03:25 – Challenger brand shoutout: Freaks of Nature04:13 – Ocean Bottle’s mission & impact05:11 – Balancing purpose and profit07:22 – Competition (and why it doesn’t matter)11:12 - Mobilising community for impact12:48 – Launching B+ for leading B Corp brands19:09 – Marketing evolution: from DTC to partnerships22.05 – B2B growth channel (Ed Sheeran & others)23:25 – Lessons learned from 6 years of marketing25:13 – The next stage: scaling from 1M to 10M bottles26:48 – Differentiating through product innovation28:25 – Ocean Bottle’s culture of innovation31:47 – Lightning round (pizza, campaigns, pet peeves)🖊️Mentioned in the show: Freaks of Nature – reef-safe sunscreen brand co-founded by Kelly SlaterThe North Face – Ocean Bottle brand partnershipEd Sheeran – Ocean Bottle bottles featured on his tourNike - purpose-led brand referencePatagonia – purpo...

How Barclays Adopts a Challenger Mindset to Innovate a 300-Year-Old Brand

42 min

In this episode of Scratch, Eric chats with Lili, the Chief Marketing & Experience Officer of Barclays US Consumer Bank, about how she brought a challenger mindset from the hospitality and entertainment industry into one of the biggest banking players in the world. Lili shares how her experience at MGM shaped her approach to customer experience, and how she’s transformed Barclays to be more customer-centric, putting real people at the heart of every journey. Innovation at Barclays doesn’t start with technology; it starts with people: Lili introduced live client call listening for executives and designed accountable customer journeys to keep the brand ahead in a fast-changing industry The conversation also explores the delicate balance between digital efficiency and maintaining the human touch, why curiosity is now an essential skill for marketers, and the ways CMOs can leverage insights from outside their own category. Packed with practical advice and real-world examples, this episode is a must-watch for anyone looking to drive customer-focused growth and bring humanity back into marketing. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/MgNhEchujRY 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:02:27) – Favorite Challenger-brand 🥤(00:06:04) – Barclays US brand overview 🏦(00:07:56) – Lili’s journey from Hospitality to Banking 🎰(00:16:41) – “Make It Better” and mindset shifts 🚀(00:18:43) – Customer journeys and accountability 🔑(00:22:56) – Restoring humanity in marketing 🤝(00:27:11) – Balancing AI efficiency with loyalty 🤖❤️(00:33:11) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Poppi SodaTony’s Chocolonely – ScratchNationwide (UK) report - Customer journey organizational modelScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Lili Tomovich, the Chief Marketing & Experience Officer of Barclays US, i...

The Secret Marketing Playbook Behind Burger King, Popeyes, & Tim Hortons

35 min

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomM In this episode, Daniel Blumer, CMO of Restaurant Brands International (EMEA), breaks down how Burger King’s parent company keeps four iconic brands fresh in a noisy quick-service world. From ditching 1,000-slide reports to tapping local culture first, Daniel shares the practical framework that powers 7,000+ restaurants across Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. One key takeaway: Stop averaging—start individualizing. Daniel explains how looking at every store’s micro-market unleashed hidden growth, and why “emotional first, functional later” has become the new rulebook for launching Popeyes or Tim Hortons in new countries. If you lead marketing for a multi-brand, multi-market business, this conversation is your cheat sheet. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/ws_GuCGOAlQ 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:04:00) - Favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:05:48) - Overview of RBI(00:12:25) - Building Cultural Relevance 📊(00:18:56) - Sales, budget & market-share framework 💵(00:28:00) - Boutique agency network strategy 🤝(00:33:12) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Liquid deathScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, joined this episode by Daniel Blumer of Restaurant Brands International. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Daniel on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMO...

Scratch Special: How Baby Eric & Baby Jenna Survived Cannes 2025

36 min

This week, it's a Scratch special. Fresh off The Croissette at Cannes 2025, Baby Eric and Baby Jenna join us to share their key takeaways from the most talked-about event in all of marketing and advertising. As yes, we said Baby Eric and Baby Jenna. All courtesy of AI of course. But do expect serious, insightful, sometimes rogue insight and opinions as usual from the Rival team all about what CMOs need to know from Cannes this year. What better way to discuss a major marketing event than in the shape of little babies, and we are emptying our diapers on the following: The death of the big 6AI reshaping the industry… or is it?How Gen Z all hate their phones, and experiential is the new digitalAnd much much more. In the words of Baby-Eric: Burp your CMO and let’s talk takeaways because baby, we’ve got thoughts! Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

How Peanut Built a Social Media Network for 5 Million+ Moms

23 min

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomM In this live-recorded episode, Phoebe Corcoran, Brand & Communications Lead at Peanut, tells us how a two-person marketing team fuels the world’s fastest-growing social network for women across fertility, pregnancy, motherhood, and menopause. We discuss how they used real-time user insights to create headline-grabbing ideas - from the #FourSmiles statue takeover that spotlighted post-partum depression to the raw, viral power of #InvisibleMothers, a campaign that generated 100 million+ impressions and global press. Throughout the conversation, Phoebe shares the art-and-science balance that lets Peanut punch above its weight: mining community data for emotional hooks, knowing when to deploy “hero” creative versus hard-working performance assets, and orchestrating guerrilla-style out-of-home activations that cost peanuts yet earn national coverage. If you want to learn how to scale your business on startup budgets while resonating with millions, then this episode is for you. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: 📚 Chapters: 00:22:20 – What you need to do differently ⚡(00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:01:57) – Phoebe’s favourite challenger brands 🏆(00:02:55) – What is Peanut? 📲(00:07:30) – Invisible mothers campaign 😊(00:14:25) – Choosing the best ideas 👀(00:17:21) – Art & Science balance ⚖️(00:22:20) – What you need to do differently ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Peanut appMaternal Mental Health Alliance#InvisibleMothers campaignHere We FloScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Phoebe Corcoran of Peanut in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedIn Find Eric on LinkedIn. Find Phoebe on LinkedIn Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a mark...

Cracking the $128Bn Pet Market with the CMO of Petsafe Brands

46 min

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomM In this episode of Scratch, Eric sits down with Molly Landman, the first Chief Marketing Officer of PetSafe, the 30-year-old pet-tech pioneer behind invisible fences, automatic litter boxes, GPS collars, and more. Molly explains how she inherited “the biggest pet brand no one knows,” why an early push into broad awareness failed to lift sales, and how a tighter focus on consumer jobs-to-be-done now guides everything from R&D roadmaps to TikTok creative. She details the work of collapsing siloed teams into a single insights-to-activation engine, riding rivals’ top-of-funnel spend instead of out-spending them, and finding pockets of growth even as the overall pet-durables market turns negative. If you’re looking for lessons on brand refresh, gross-margin optimisation, or balancing performance with brand, this conversation delivers a practical, P&L-driven playbook. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/vIdrjkKh49A 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:02:42) – Favorite Challenger-brand(00:04:36) – PetSafe overview 🐾(00:11:00) – Molly’s journey at Petsafe 📈(00:31:36) – Growing with less in a shrinking category 💡(00:38:25) – Taking the CMO role(00:40:26) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Halo (dog collar) Bob Moesta episode - Scratch Jobs to be done theoryScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Molly Landman of Petsafe in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedIn Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Molly on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to...

Tubi's Marketing Playbook to Disrupt the $109Bn Global Streaming Market

44 min

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomM This week, we sit down with Nicole Parlapiano, CMO of Tubi, the leading free, ad-supported streaming television (FAST) with the largest content library on the planet - 275 K+ movies and TV episodes. Nicole unpacks how she’s rewriting the rules of entertainment marketing: brand-first positioning, bottom-up cultural relevance, and creative swings that punch way above their media weight. One of the key takeaways from this episode is Nicole’s conviction that the monoculture is DEAD - growth now comes from igniting micro-communities at scale. We also dive into how commercial acumen (private-equity roots, P&L obsession) makes a modern CMO indispensable at board level, why most brands misuse social media, and the power of constraints to unlock breakthrough creativity. If you’re building a challenger brand - or simply fighting for standout work - this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube ▶️: https://youtu.be/cBuq9amnM9c 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:03:29) - Nicole’s background(00:14:30) - Favourite challenger brand 🌶️(00:17:03) - Challenging Convention 🌐(00:26:02) - Rethinking social 📱(00:33:55) - Creativity, risk & Super Bowl lessons 🎨(00:38:32) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: JC penny Chilis Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Nicole Parlapiano of TUBI in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedIn. Find Eric on LinkedIn. Find Nicole on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and u...

How Midday Squares is Disrupting Big Chocolate using a Reality Show Model

45 min

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomM On this week’s episode of Scratch, Jake Karls, the energetic co-founder and Chief Rainmaker of Midday Squares, joins Eric to unpack the reality-show marketing strategy that’s rocketing their functional chocolate bars onto shelves across North America. From filming therapy sessions to smashing Costco road-show records, Jake explains why attention is today’s most valuable currency and how being unapologetically authentic turns casual shoppers into lifelong fans. If you want a front-row seat to a modern challenger playbook - complete with community gamification, LinkedIn power moves, and a sneak peek at the next growth phase - this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/3I86AGZQRvY 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:04:18) - Jake’s favorite challenger brand: Liquid Death 💧(00:08:50) - What is Midday Squares? 🍫(00:10:45) - The reality-show marketing playbook 🎥(00:19:00) - Breaking Costco’s sales record & community gamification 🏬(00:24:30) - Scaling a media-first model 📈(00:30:30) - LinkedIn: the underrated channel 🔗(00:33:45) - Data vs. creativity in marketing 📊(00:41:00) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Liquid DeathPatagonia – “Don’t Buy This Jacket” campaignNike storytelling modelWhoop wearableScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Jake Karls of Midday Squares in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn. Find Jake on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories...

How Polestar is Taking on EV Giants in a $785Bn Market

39 min

Watch our documentary on the Future of the CMO from this link 📺: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXBKelmQomM In this episode, Eric sits down with Åsa Borg, the Chief Marketing & Commercial Operations Officer at Polestar, the Swedish electric performance car brand that's challenging the automotive industry. Since launching in 2017, Polestar has rapidly expanded to 27 markets globally with their lineup of electric vehicles. Åsa brings her wealth of experience from 20 years at Volvo Cars to this challenger brand, offering unique insights on the difference between marketing for an established brand versus building one from scratch. One of the key takeaways from this conversation is how Polestar approached sustainability—making it core to their brand identity rather than just a marketing message. Åsa shares that transparency is a fundamental value for Polestar, especially in an industry that has historically hidden its environmental impact. We also dive into their decision to bring creative and media capabilities in-house, which has allowed for greater consistency, speed, and control over their brand expression across all 27 markets. Another fascinating aspect of our discussion explores how AI is being integrated into their marketing operations, from improving translation to maintaining brand tonality across markets. If you're interested in automotive marketing, sustainability branding, or building in-house creative capabilities, this episode is packed with valuable insights! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/fSEW2Vl2Sf8 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:03:02) - Åsa’s view on challenger brands in the EV space 🏆(00:04:29) - What is Polestar?(00:09:20) - Sustainability as a core brand value 📊(00:13:08) - Creative campaigns and testing approach 🎬(00:27:09) - Employer branding 🖨️(00:34:50) - Åsa’s commercial responsibilities 💼(00:37:03) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Polestar’s Own CampaignArctic Circle cars camp...

Building Intergenerational Brand Loyalty with the CMO of Consumer Reports

42 min

In this episode, we sit down with Khalid El Khatib, the Chief Marketing Officer of Consumer Reports, one of America’s most trusted and oldest consumer advocacy organizations. Khalid unpacks how he’s transitioning Conaumer Reports from a “publisher” mindset to a platform strategy that emphasizes product-led growth, user-centric advocacy, and yes, the iconic lab testing (including a cat-hair-laden robotic vacuum test). One of the key takeaways here is how community can be a company’s competitive moat, and how bringing in fresh digital tactics doesn’t have to mean losing an 88-year legacy of credibility. Another recurring theme is the intergenerational aspect of CR’s brand story - how do you engage a loyal but aging membership and a new crop of digitally native consumers at the same time? If you’ve ever wondered how to future-proof an institution while staying true to its roots, then this conversation is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/K-OrSj6ioiA 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:00) – Khalid’s favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:06:45) – Overview of Consumer Reports 📋(00:16:31) – Approaching community 🚀(00:28:11) – Succeeding in a SaaS environment 🤝(00:35:28) – What makes a good CMO ⚙️(00:41:05) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: New York Magazine Duolingo Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Khalid El Khatib of Consumer Reports in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn. Find Eric on LinkedIn. Find Khalid on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playboo...

How Oddbox is Building UK’s Fastest-Growing Grocery Subscription

43 min

We’re excited to sit down with Gastón Tourn, the Chief Growth Officer of Oddbox, a subscription service rescuing produce that would otherwise go to waste. In this conversation, Gastón dives into the importance of genuine storytelling, the fascinating psychology behind “Veg Haters,” and why focusing on customer insight (rather than competitors) unlocks true growth potential. One of the key takeaways from this episode is Gastón’s belief that marketers should read fiction writers—like Hemingway—to understand storytelling frameworks that connect on a deeper human level. Another recurring theme is his approach to balancing long-term brand-building with short-term performance—a common challenge for any marketer who needs to do “more with less.” If you’ve ever wondered how to turn customer complaints into an engaging campaign, or if you simply love the idea of “ugly” fruits and veggies saving the world, then this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/DWQzGdyFj-U 📚 Chapters: 00:00:00 – Intro 🎙️00:03:02 – What is Oddbox? 🥕00:08:40 – Gastón’s favorite challenger brand 🏆00:11:16 – Storytelling that matters – the Hemingway hack ✍️00:23:10 – Focusing on customers, not competitors 🤝00:34:03 – How to Approach ROI with the Board 🦟00:40:25 – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: The Long and the Short of it: Balancing Short and Long-Term Marketing Strategies Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Gastón Tourn of Oddbox in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn. Find Gastón on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do dif...

How ESL FACEIT Group Fuels the Largest Esports League on Earth

50 min

Check out our new podcast ‘Ripples’ on Microcultures from the links 🔗 below 👇 🎙️ Listen on Apple podcasts here🎧 Listen on Spotify hereIn this episode, we sit down with Fabio Tambosi, Senior Vice President of Global Marketing at ESL FACEIT Group (EFG)—the world’s largest esports and gaming ecosystem. Fabio shares his journey from a near-pro soccer career to marketing roles at Nike, Adidas, and Saucony before stepping into the high-velocity realm of esports. One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is Fabio’s approach to “unlearning” old habits. Drawing on his experience managing iconic sports brands, Fabio explains why empowering teams, trusting the community, and staying humble are critical for success in an always-evolving digital landscape. With more than 3.2B gamers globally, Fabio believes co-creation and community-led content represent the future of modern marketing—both in esports and beyond. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/xEKUBtePN3E 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:04:20) – Fabio’s Challenger Brand(00:06:56) – Overview of ESL FACEIT Group 🕹️(00:09:20) – From Soccer Dream to Accidental Marketer ⚽(00:18:43) – Unlearning & Asking ‘Simple’ Questions 🤔(00:19:49) – Trusting the Team & Creative Process 💡(00:24:21) – Why you need to empower your team 👥(00:38:00) – Where Brands go Wrong 🏗️(00:40:50) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Red BullNike’s 'Dream Crazy' CampaignCall of DutyScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Fabio Tambosi of ESL FACEIT Group in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Fabio on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge conventi...

How Light Is Breaking Big Tech by Creating an Anti-Attention Smartphone

49 min

Check out our new podcast ‘Ripples’ on Microcultures from the links 🔗 below 👇 🎙️ Listen on Apple podcasts here🎧 Listen on Spotify here hereIn this episode, Kaiwei Tang, CEO & Co-Founder of Light, reveals how a 10-year-old “anti-smartphone” brand has cultivated a dedicated community by doing less. Light’s flagship product, the Light Phone, eliminates data-hungry apps, social media, and constant notifications—replacing them with practical tools and pure utility. Kaiwei shares how organic word-of-mouth, celebrity shout-outs, and unwavering brand values fuel Light’s growth in a world where “paid ads” often dominate the startup playbook. From experiencing the anxiety of leaving your smartphone at home to feeling the freedom of minimal tech, this conversation uncovers how Light stands apart from Big Tech’s attention-driven business model. If you’ve ever wanted a more balanced relationship with technology—or you’re just intrigued by how a brand can shape culture through less, then this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/3hXkhcYlNlc 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:04:01) – Meet Kaiwei Tang and the Light Brand 💡(00:17:02) – What Marketing is for Light 🚀(00:24:51) – Jobs to be Done for Light 📢(00:34:03) – The Future for Light 🔮(00:40:00) – Lessons from a Product-Led Mindset 🛠️(00:47:13) – The One Thing to Do Differently ✅🖊️Mentioned in the show: RemarkableAaron Paul’s Endorsement on Light PhoneScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities to help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and in this episode, he’s joined by Kaiwei Tang, CEO & Co-Founder of Light. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn. Find Kaiwei on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category....

Major League Soccer’s Full-Funnel Blueprint for Converting Viewers to Fans

42 min

Check out our new podcast ‘Ripples’ on Microcultures from the links 🔗 below 👇 🎙️ Listen on Apple podcasts here🎧 Listen on Spotify here hereIn this episode, Eric sits down with Radhika Duggal, CMO of Major League Soccer, to discuss the league’s explosive growth and unique approach to sports marketing in the United States. Radhika brings insights from her time at household-name brands like JP Morgan and Pfizer, revealing how a data-driven approach helps MLS turn viral moments (like Lionel Messi’s arrival) into real, long-term fandom. She also shares why “customer obsession” is crucial in sports—especially as Gen Z and new digital habits transform the way fans consume and connect with their favorite teams. From the balance of art and science in modern marketing to building genuine internal culture, Radhika explains how soccer is uniting people both in stadiums and behind screens, making MLS one of the most interesting “challenger” leagues to watch—no matter which sport you prefer. ▶️ Watch the video version of this episode: https://youtu.be/VLnp9neNIBA 📚 Chapters (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:59) – Radhika’s favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:07:08) – Overview of Major League Soccer ⚽(00:10:00) – Consumer behavior and data-driven insights 📊(00:20:45) – MLS’s playbook to growth 📣(00:29:28) – Balancing data, humanity, and team culture 🤝(00:39:48) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the Show: Modelo’s recruiter campaignBain Values Pyramid (Framework for consumer-facing value)Liquid Death (Challenger brand)Apple TV – Major League Soccer Season PassScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Radhika Duggal of MLS in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn, Find Radhika on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing...

Standard Bank’s Marketing Playbook to Dominate South Africa’s $1.41Tn Finance Sector

42 min

In this episode, Diana Springer, Group Head of Brand & Marketing at Standard Bank, talks about preserving trust while infusing fresh creativity into Africa’s largest financial institution. With a heritage spanning 162 years and 15M+ customers, Standard Bank has every reason to play it safe—yet Diana reveals how her team fosters innovation, internal advocacy, and an emotive brand narrative in a typically functional category. From her agency background (Ogilvy, Saatchi) to the challenges of marketing a global, matrixed financial services group, Diana shares tactics for balancing brand consistency with the need for breakthrough creativity. Whether you’re a marketer in a highly regulated industry or just want to hear what it’s like taking a heritage brand forward, this conversation will both give you insight and inspiration. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/FqizjfWSSUs 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:37) – Diana’s favorite challenger brands 🏆(00:07:19) – What Fintech CMOs think about 💭(00:09:05) - What Standard Bank Does 💵(00:11:00) - Diana’s POV on Incumbent vs Challenger 👊(00:15:35) – Storytelling and emotional resonance 💡(00:23:17) – Resonance vs Relevance 🤝(00:37:01) – Challenges to being brave 💪(00:44:37) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: SpotifyTshepo JeansWhoopLiquid DeathScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Diana Springer of Standard Bank in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Diana on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories tha...

How Investec Stays "Fresh" after 50 years with Challenger Thinking

49 min

We’re back with Scratch! In this episode, we sit down with Abey Mokgwatsane, Chief Marketing Officer of Investec, an international bank and wealth manager that’s celebrating its 50th anniversary—and still thinking like a challenger. Abey shares how his team keeps the brand fresh by simplifying complexity, focusing on consistent storytelling, and staying true to the heritage that first propelled Investec into the private banking space. He also explains what it’s like to join a new industry as a “super sub” and how that outsider perspective drives authentic innovation. One of the big takeaways from this episode is Abey’s focus on “making the complex simple and the simple exciting.” Whether it’s building a brand around the iconic zebra or doubling down on Investec’s legendary service culture, Abey’s mindset proves that consistency doesn’t have to mean boring. We also dive into what it means to remain “freshly consistent” instead of “consistently fresh,” a concept that’s helped Investec maintain its challenger DNA over five decades of growth. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/EGXZiOWQbsA 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) – Intro 🎙️(00:03:30) – Abey’s favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:04:50) – Overview of Investec 💼(00:07:19) – Building a challenger ethos in finance 📈(00:14:30) – Making complexity simple and simplicity exciting 💡(00:21:30) – ‘Freshly Consistent’ vs. ‘Consistently Fresh’ 🔄(00:27:20) – The ‘Super Sub’ approach to marketing ⚽(00:46:18) – Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Four Seasons (service inspiration)Adam Morgan’s “Eating the Big Fish” (challenger brand mindset)KitKat (“fresh consistency” in action)Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities to help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and in this episode he’s joined by Abey Mokgwatsane, CMO of Investec. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric...

How Tony’s Chocolonely Changed the $120Bn Chocolate Category

50 min

In this episode, we’re thrilled to sit down with Sadira Furlow, the Chief Marketing Officer of Tony's Chocolonely, an impact company on a mission to end exploitation in the cocoa industry. Tony's Chocolonely isn't just about making delicious chocolate—they're committed to making systemic change in the chocolate industry by producing ethically sourced chocolate and encouraging others to join their mission. In our conversation, Sadira dives deep into the reality of building a challenger brand that's scaling globally while staying true to its core mission. She shares insights on how Tony's embraces boldness and risk-taking to drive meaningful change, the importance of storytelling in conveying their mission, and how they navigate the challenges of growth without compromising their values. One of the key takeaways from this episode is Sadira's perspective on being unapologetically mission-driven and how that translates into every aspect of their business—from product design to marketing strategies. Another recurring theme is the significance of partnership and clarity when pushing boundaries, and how Tony's fosters a culture that isn't afraid to "call the lawyers" to make a statement. If you're interested in purpose-driven marketing or want to learn how to build a brand that genuinely challenges industry norms, then this episode is for you! Send us a screenshot of your review at media@wearerival.com 👀🍫 Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/1zQgayBpb7I 📚Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro(00:07:30) - What is Tony’s Chocolonely?(00:10:43) - Why is Tony ‘lonely’? 🌍(00:19:11) - Perception vs. reality of a challenger brand 🔍(00:24:03) - Creating bold marketing campaigns 🎨(00:36:01) - Tony's as a real deal challenger 💪(00:39:15) - The 'call the lawyers' mindset ⚖️(00:49:29) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Favorite challenger brand: Duolingo Tony’s x Feastables Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy t...

The BBC’s Blueprint for a Century of Brand Building With Its Chief Brand Officer

49 min

In this episode, we’re thrilled to sit down with Charl Bassil, the Chief Brand Officer of the BBC, a globally renowned public service broadcaster (yes, the BBC) committed to enriching people's lives through programs and services that inform, educate, and entertain. In our conversation, Charl dives deep into the art of nurturing brands for the long term, emphasizing the responsibility of brand custodians to preserve and grow what has been created. He shares insights on how marketers can think like farmers, cultivating assets that provide value over time rather than hunters seeking short-term gains. We also explore the importance of balancing risks and opportunities in marketing plans and uncover the secrets to gaining more buy-in within an organization. One of the key takeaways from this episode is Charl's perspective on how brands can make people feel like they belong, turning the "others" into part of a community. We also discuss the evolving role of CMOs, the significance of maintaining authenticity in brand messaging, and how to remain relevant in a rapidly changing media landscape. If you're interested in long-term brand growth and making a meaningful impact, then this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/9B9DrYcWnaU 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:03:11) - Charl’s favorite challenger brand 🥨(00:08:10) - The role of brand custodians 🌱(00:12:43) - Nurturing brand for the long term ⏳(00:29:43) - How to get more buy-in for brand ⚖️(00:34:00) - Making people feel like they belong 🤝(00:41:00) - Why the BBC is a challenger brand 👊(00:46:35) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Favorite challenger brand - Olly’s Episode with Boxraw Absolut VodkaScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Charl Bassil of the BBC in this episode. Find Rival on...

The Modern CMO’s Playbook to First-Party Data With the CEO of mParticle

43 min

We’re thrilled to sit down with Michael Katz, the CEO of mParticle in this episode. mParticle is a leading customer data platform that helps businesses unify and activate their customer data to drive better marketing outcomes. They specialize in integrating various data sources to create unified customer profiles, enabling companies to deliver personalized and efficient marketing campaigns. In our conversation, Michael dives deep into the evolution of customer data management, sharing insights on how the shift from integration to intelligence is shaping the future of marketing. One of the key takeaways is his emphasis on the importance of building a strong first-party data foundation, which is crucial for businesses navigating the challenges of data privacy and third-party cookie deprecation. Another recurring theme is the collaboration between marketing and IT teams, highlighting the concept that "data is a team sport." MK discusses how aligning these departments can lead to better execution and more effective use of customer data. If you're a marketer looking to stay ahead in the rapidly changing landscape of customer data and marketing technology, then this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/ECTN_VC5760 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:02:28) - MK's favourite challenger brand(00:03:50) - What mParticle does 🚀(00:10:30) - The shift from integration to intelligence 🧠(00:21:50) - Navigating data privacy and signal loss 🔒(00:29:49) - Leveraging AI with transparency 🤖(00:39:31) - Collaboration between marketing and IT 🤝(00:39:55) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: InterclickApple's iOS ChangesGoogle's Third-Party Cookie DeprecationScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Michael Katz of mParticle in this episode Find Rival online at ww...

How Boxraw Is Fighting Its Way to the Top of the $1.3Bn Global Boxing Market 🥊

49 min

In this episode, we’re thrilled to sit down with Ben Amanna, the CEO of Boxraw, a pioneering boxing apparel and equipment company that’s aiming to revolutionize the sport. Boxraw specializes in high-quality boxing gear and lifestyle apparel, helping people around the world embrace boxing not just as a sport, but as a lifestyle 🥊. In our conversation, Ben dives deep into the art of building an authentic lifestyle brand centered around boxing. He shares insights on community building, the importance of authenticity, and his vision for the future of boxing as both a sport and a culture. One of the key takeaways is Boraw's aspiration to be “the reason why the world got into boxing”, highlighting the significance of staying true to one's core values in brand building. Another recurring theme in this episode is the emphasis on community initiatives like Sprint Club and Sparring Club, showcasing how fostering a genuine community can drive growth and resonate with a broader audience. If you're passionate about entrepreneurship, brand building, or the sport of boxing, then this episode is for you! Join our AMP Community from this link 🌱. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/RRm5Zv3oWCg 📚Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:04:30) - Ben's favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:07:00) - The vision behind Boxraw 🥊(00:10:30) - Going back to authenticity 👕(00:14:20) - The role of content and storytelling 📖(00:23:35) - Lifestyle vs product brand? 🤝(00:29:01) - Influencers in the boxing world 💡(00:37:24) - Building communities to grow 🚀(00:46:45) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Fav Challenger Brand: Satisfy runningCreed 3 x boxrawCorteiz bolo campaignScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Ben Amanna of BoxRaw in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn,...

170% YoY Growth: Bespoke Beauty Brands' Secret to Disrupting the Beauty Industry

54 min

We're joined by the CEO of Bespoke Beauty Brands, Stacey Tank in this episode. Founded by Toni Ko in 2019, Bespoke Beauty Brands, LLC is reshaping the landscape of affordable luxury beauty. The company blends its deep expertise in color cosmetics with the creative brilliance of artists like KimChi and Jason Wu, while embracing core values of creativity, inclusiveness, and self-acceptance. Stacey gives us a behind-the-scenes look at what has driven the company's success, particularly with the KimChi brand, which has achieved remarkable triple-digit growth year after year. She shares how authenticity and a commitment to building genuine communities lie at the heart of BBB's marketing strategy. In the second half, we dive into the evolving world of beauty retail and how it's being reshaped by challengers & incumbents alike. Stacey explains how social selling is quickly becoming the “third leg of the stool” alongside traditional retail and e-commerce—a shift that has the potential to shake up long-established retail models. She also emphasizes the importance of maintaining a strong innovation pipeline to keep up with the fast-moving beauty industry. Success, Stacey explains, is all about finding the right balance between delivering short-term results and pursuing a long-term vision, while avoiding over-reliance on any single product or sales channel. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in, or working in beauty, innovation, and community-building. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/ecL1gOGWntQ 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro(00:03:40) - Favorite Challenger Brand ❄️(00:05:58) - Overview of Bespoke Beauty Brands 💄(00:09:25) - Advantages of being an incumbent 🚀(00:14:18) - Journaling and Personal Growth 📓🌱(00:19:03) - Role of Chief Transformation Officer at Heineken 🍺(00:29:07) - How to Achieve 170% Growth? 📦✨(00:39:00) - What Stacey’s Approach to Marketing is 📲🛍️(00:42:33) - Why Organic Content is King ❌...

The B2B Brand Playbook: Lessons From Paddle's Journey to Becoming a $1.4Bn Unicorn

40 min

We’re back with Scratch after the long summer break! For our first episode after the break, we’re thrilled to sit down with Andrew Davies, the CMO of Paddle, a leading payment infrastructure provider designed specifically for SaaS companies. Paddle takes care of the tricky stuff—payments, taxes, subscriptions—essentially all the payment logistics, so businesses can focus on what really matters: growth. In our conversation, Andrew dives deep into the art of building a brand-led B2B business and tells us why long-term brand investment is key to true marketing efficiency. One of the key takeaways from this episode is Andrew’s insight on how B2B marketers can learn from B2C and lifestyle brands by focusing on people, not just businesses. We also discuss the challenges in educating boards and CEOs about modern marketing approaches, the importance of long-term brand investment, and the evolving role of CMOs as commercial operators. Another recurring theme from this episode (something that we’ve heard quite a few times now) is the importance of understanding the broader business ecosystem and speaking the language of top business leaders. We also touch on overlooked growth opportunities, the evolving role of CMOs, and how critical it is to align your team on messaging and the overall brand story. If you work for or own a B2B brand, then this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/Jv422AbPnP4 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️(00:03:40) - Andrew’s favorite challenger brand 🏆(00:05:10) - What is Paddle? (00:07:30) - Why does no one care about demand gen? 🤔(00:10:45) - Brand focused data-points 📊(00:19:00) - Building a community of raving fans 🎉(00:25:31) - Under-considered opportunities to grow 🌱(00:37:00) - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: Paddle studiosRepresent CloHockey Stack - B2B Marketing BrandScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilit...

How Hyrox is Becoming the Fastest-Growing Sport in a $6.73Bn Market

46 min

We're joined by the Co-founder of Hyrox in this episode, Moritz Fuerste. Hyrox is a global fitness race that combines running with functional exercises. Hyrox is experiencing explosive growth in cities worldwide, with participation skyrocketing to over 210,000 athletes across 30 cities in the 2023/24 season and events selling out rapidly. Their origin story stemmed from identifying a gap in the fitness market for a measurable, repeatable sport that is accessible to everyone. Moritz discussed the model his team has used for a community-driven growth strategy that focuses on organic social media and partnerships with local gyms. This approach has allowed Hyrox to educate potential customers about their new product while creating a mutually beneficial relationship with fitness centers. We break down Hyrox's unique marketing playbook, which focuses on event-centric promotion and word-of-mouth marketing over paid digital advertising. Moritz explains how their long purchase cycle is similar to buying a car, and how this has influenced their marketing approach. He also touches on the challenges of balancing mass participation with elite competition in their messaging & comms. As Hyrox continues to grow, they're now focusing on maximizing reach through live streaming of major events, seeing this as a key channel for media exposure. Throughout the episode, Moritz emphasizes the importance of adapting messaging, trying new things, and being willing to make mistakes in building a successful challenger brand. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/m8FSZUGMUP4 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro(00:03:45)- Favourite Challenger Brand - Automotive Industry 🚗(00:07:00) - What is Hyrox? 🏃(00:11:50) - Hyrox’s Point-of-difference(00:21:00) - Why Hyrox has never invested in digital marketing(00:24:00) - What actually worked for Hyrox’s growth(00:41:00) Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show: CMO of Fever-tree episode - Jeremy KanterFever-TreeScratch i...

How Fever-Tree Became the Leader of the $9.5Bn Premium Mixers Category

49 min

We’re joined by the CMO of Fever-Tree, Jeremy Kanter in this episode. Fever-Tree is a global brand that sells premium drink mixers designed to complement the world’s finest spirits 🥂✨. We discuss, 1 - How incumbents view innovation, 2 - The signs that a category is ripe for disruption, and 3 - What it truly takes to build an authentic premium brand. As Jeremy reveals in this episode, customers often don't think about your products as obsessively as you do; They make decisions based on what’s top of mind for them, and their previous experiences with the brand. So, if you want your customer to ‘stick’📌& have a ‘high lifetime value’, then you need to ask yourself if your product is superior to the rest. Fever-Tree has an obsessive focus on using the best ingredients and processes, which has allowed them to deliver a noticeably superior & better-tasting drink than their competition. They recently overtook Schweppes to become the top tonic water in the US. Jeremy tells us how we need to be “unreasonable” about quality and not accept the category norms because it’s the job of marketers to find innovative ways to add value. We dive into what it takes for a brand to be recognized as “premium” in its category, and how to mobilize ‘advocates’ to build the grassroots support your brand needs, especially in its initial stages 🌱🤝. Jeremy's marketing model begins with an exceptional product, developing channel/ritual advantages, cultivating advocates, and only then moving to broader advertising & comms. If you are in a crowded category and want to stand out with a premium & differentiated brand, then this episode is for you! 🌟🚀 Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/8HRwwHaR_rE 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro(00:03:45) - Favourite Challenger Brand 👊(00:08:55) - What is Fever-Tree? 🍷(00:18:10) - When is the right time to innovate in a category?(00:23:30) - How to build a premium brand? 💸(00:31:15) - Customer advocacy: Fevertree’s Playbo...

The Truth Behind the World’s Biggest LGBTQ+ Brand with the SVP, Brand Marketing of Grindr

47 min

In this episode, we are joined by the SVP of Brand Marketing and Communications at Grindr, Tristan Pineiro. Grindr is an online dating & meetup app predominantly used by gay and bisexual men and the trans & queer community. Tristan’s marketing philosophy is to understand and align the three brand truths - who you say you are, who people say you are, and who you really are. He emphasizes that finding the authentic, true brand narrative serves as the foundation for a successful marketing function 📈. Throughout the episode, he advocates for a ‘social-led’ marketing discipline, which means that you create engaging content to drive brand affinity while focusing on insights around how the most engaged users actually use the product. He breaks down the mental models that he uses to get buy-in from leadership on brand positioning while balancing commercial realities with the brand's purpose. We also discuss how Grindr uses content to extend the brand’s story across different channels & markets 🌍. If you want to learn how your team’s content efforts can help in building an authentic yet differentiated brand, then this episode is for you! Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/RjxLbD5yss8 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro(00:05:32) - Why Barbie killed it 🌟(00:09:10) - What is Grindr 💡(00:11:45) - Grindr’s Positioning 🎯(00:13:30) - First 6 months as a CMO(00:21:15) - Differentiation: Grindr’s perspective 🔍(00:31:30) - Social-Led Marketing 🌐(00:42:09) - Strategy - the Art of Sacrifice (00:43:35) - Lightning round ⚡(00:43:42) - Best Career Advice(00:44:24) - Marketing Pet Peeve(00:45:30) - One thing People Should do Differently🖊️ Mentioned in the show: Favorite challenger brand - Mattel Who’s the a*****e podcast from Grindr Stats wrap report about Gay culture - Grindr partners with HIV testing companyScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faste...

Creating Series-E Impact with a Pre-seed Budget with the CMO of Tomorrow.io

56 min

In this episode, we are joined by the CMO of Tomorrow.io, Dan Slagen. Tomorrow.io is a global weather intelligence brand that provides predictive insights to help major brands and governments mitigate operational risks from weather events. Despite being a Series E company with a marketing team of just 4 people, Dan shares how they have built a major brand around their service through 1- Creative storytelling, 2- Leveraging media coverage, and 3- Establishing "weather intelligence" as a new category altogether (which they now lead) ⛈️. Dan discusses the marketing principles and practices that allow his lean team to punch above their weight 👊. He covers multiple key strategies, including a strong alignment with the sales team & building processes around AI/automation. He also emphasizes the importance of balancing short and long-term initiatives, taking creative swings with a test-and-learn approach, and the importance of speaking the language of the CEO. At the end of the episode, he shares the playbook he uses to maintain a CEO mindset as a CMO and the importance of understanding the CEO's priorities; after all, he is the author of ‘Understanding Startup CEOs’ 📚. If you’re in a mid-senior marketing position and want to learn how to build trust and have a better relationship with the rest of the leadership, then this episode is for you. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/MP9CdTW2VaI 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro(00:06:00) - Weather Intelligence Brand 🌧️ - Tomorrow.io(00:23:18) - Building a long-term marketing plan(00:33:01) - Lean marketing - how to do more with less(00:41:05) - How to decide what to not do?(00:43:33) - Creativity in Campaigns(00:47:12) - Taking big swings & innovations(00:49:00) - Hiring AI Marketer 👷(00:54:10) - Understanding startup CEOs🖊️Mentioned in the show: Favorite challenger brand - Liquid DeathUnderstanding Startup CEOs bookScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that...

The $100Bn Secret for Marketing Chinese Brands with the Ex-CMO of Huawei & Didi

49 min

In this episode, we talk with Andrew Garrihy — The CMO Coach (https://cmocoach.co/), an international marketing leader and executive coach who specialises in helping CMOs lead with clarity, confidence and courage. A veteran global CMO who spent several years working in senior marketing roles at major Chinese companies like Huawei and Didi. Andrew shares his fascinating experiences navigating the complexities of Chinese business culture as a Western executive. He provides invaluable insights into understanding the mindset and values that shape the Chinese professional environment, such as the emphasis on collective wisdom, respect for hierarchy, and the relentless pursuit of progress. He walks us through the "agile marketing" framework he implemented at Huawei, where they would launch around 50 new smartphone products per year, with about 3 being major flagship launches that required launching across 15 European countries, with only 90 days to plan and execute on all campaigns. This approach included long-term strategic planning with extreme agility, continual testing, and dedicated innovation budgets. Andrew also talks about his new passion project, the CMO Coach, which aims to provide mentorship to emerging marketing leaders to maximize their potential. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/mmRPhJxDZb8 📚 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro(00:07:00) - Andrew's Background 🎒(00:08:30) - What Led Andrew to China 🇨🇳(00:14:40) - The Culture Map - How to Thrive in Other Cultures?(00:15:55) - How to Thrive in Chinese Culture?(00:23:38) - How Do You Build a Brand in the Chinese Market? 📈(00:34:39) - How Did Andrew Really Make It Work?(00:40:03) - What Is the CMO Coach? 🧑🏫(00:45:30) - Lightning Round ⚡(00:46:00) - Best Career Advice(00:46:10) - Marketing Pet Peeve(00:46:50) - One Marketing Tool You Can't Live Without ⚒️(00:48:10) - One Thing People Should Do Differently?🖊️Mentioned in the show: Nio The culture map book Build your dreams FMML...

CMO of USA Pickleball on marketing the fastest-growing sport in a $65Bn category

45 min

Jose Moreno, the CMO of USA Pickleball, joins us in this episode to share USA Pickeball’s journey from a small governing body (with just 4-5 employees a few years ago), to now leading the charge as the fastest-growing sport in America. How did they do this? - By building a strong sense of community around the sport. Jose emphasized the importance of constant listening and adapting to authentically 'build credibility' with their player base, instead of simply dictating from the top down. The brand built credibility in the niche through strategic partnerships with brands from other industries, like Fortune Tires and Skechers. Additionally, Jose shared insights on the challenges of prioritizing and executing as a small marketing team to keep up with the surging demand, cautioning against trying to be "all things to everybody". The conversation is full of useful tips and insights from USA Pickleball's journey to becoming the top contender in the rapidly growing pickleball world, highlighting the significance of community, authenticity, and strategic prioritization. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 📺: https://youtu.be/yxN4dLvYJBM Mentioned in the show 🖊️: Challenger brand: North face 📚Chapters: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:04:10 - Favourite challenger brand 👊 00:06:10 - What is Pickleball 🎾 00:17:36 - Positioning of the Pickleball Brand 00:21:11 - How to do More with Less 🤏 00:24:46 - A Typical Week for the Pickleball Team 00:29:57 - Product Innovation from Customer Feedback - Pickleball’s version 00:38: 40 Lightning Round ⚡ 00:38:50 First Marketing Job 🧑💼 00:39:50 - Best Career Advice for Marketers 00:40:49 - Best Brand Campaign 00:41:50 - Pet Peeve of Marketing 00:42:38 - Best Marketing Tool ⚒️ 00:43:01 - What should people do differently after this episode? Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Jose on LinkedIn . Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you....

Cracking the $45Bn Sports Nutrition Market with the CMO of Podium

51 min

Dylan Jones, the CMO of Podium Nutrition joins us in this episode to share the story of Podium - from a small CrossFit supplement brand to an emerging lifestyle performance brand, with ambitions to become the leading nutrition brand for Olympic athletes by the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics. The key? Focusing on lifestyle and entertaining content to build authenticity over traditional product marketing. Dylan talks about the importance of understanding the core "pain points" of a niche audience and creating valuable content & experiences around those points, rather than just “pushing products” like salesmen. Podium established credibility within the CrossFit community through partnerships with influencers like Matt Frazier and Buttery Bros (who also later became equity owners). We learnt that brands should focus on developing a unique personality that entertains customers, not just ‘educates’ them. Furthermore, Dylan shares valuable insights on successfully transitioning from a niche market to a broader audience while cautioning against the dangers of "over-partnering." For marketers aiming to build culturally relevant brands with passionate ‘fans’, this conversation is packed with practical advice and insights from Podium's journey to becoming culturally relevant. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 📺: https://youtu.be/-T4ZIQrbiRc 🖊️Mentioned in the Show: Rival New VIS IDInstagram reel Favourite Challenger Brand: LSKDNike Kids Shoes Campaign 📕Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro 🕰️ (00:06:55) - Favorite Challenger brand ⭐ (00:10:25) - What is Podium Nutrition? 🍏 (00:12:02) - Podium’s take on influencers 👩👩👧👦 (00:27:00) - Where do brands go wrong in expanding to new niches? 🌍 (00:40:25) - Playbook to beta test a new category 📊 (00:43:00) - How do you move to retail from DTC 🛒 (00:46:36) - Lightning Round ⚡ Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d...

Blending Brand & Performance in DTC with Bryant Garvin of Ozlo Sleep, Purple Mattress

52 min

In this episode, we are joined by Bryant Garvin, Head of Marketing & Growth 📈 at Ozlo Sleep. Bryan offers a fresh perspective on the age-old debate between brand building and performance marketing. He introduces ‘performance branding’ - an approach that focuses on building brand awareness through emotionally resonant & entertaining content, while strictly measuring & optimizing for performance metrics. This simple strategy has been key 🔑to the success of brands like Ozlo, and Purple, where he previously worked. When you want marketing to be ‘successful’, you need to have some foundations in place. Bryan emphasizes starting with a strong, differentiated product as the core foundation for successful marketing, as a great product enables authentic word-of-mouth, customer advocacy, and a genuine brand story to tell. Additionally, he discusses the importance of creative partnership. A creative partnership means that a) you are working closely with creative partners who understand performance goals, b) you have a structured process for developing creative content, and c) you continually testing different variations to drive business results. After all, we are all spending real dollars on all the ‘brand stuff’ 💰. This episode is packed with valuable insights into building culturally relevant brands while driving measurable growth. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 📺: https://youtu.be/PF7B7y7LvFw 🖊️Mentioned in the Show: Stanley Starbucks x Target Limited edition valentines day cup Stanley Cup survives car fireOzlo sleep - Valentine's day spot Chapters: 📕 (00:00:00) - Intro (00:03:30) - How Stanley Cups hijacked culture 🎭 (00:12:10) - What is Ozlo Sleep? (00:15:23) - Performance Branding - How to get started 📈 (00:24:44) - Why constraints drive creativity for brands like Ozlo (00:25:45) - Performance branding summarised - Ozlo’s take (00:32:30) - What is the split between performance and brand for a modern marketer? (00:34:30) - Why did the CMO & CE...

How to Use AI to Disrupt the $50Bn Perfume Category with Noteworthy Scents

43 min

In this insightful episode, Ashley Boyce, CMO and co-founder of Noteworthy, takes us through their journey of building a perfume brand that dares to be different in the competitive $48bn fragrance category. Noteworthy is a challenger brand that’s empowering consumers to discover their unique signature scent using AI, moving beyond the traditional designer and celebrity endorsements. In the episode, Ashley discusses the importance of creating products that not only meet a tangible need but also carry a deeper meaning for consumers, similar to Dove's approach to female empowerment. She covers the role of storytelling in altering fixed consumer behaviors and the impact of platforms like TikTok in creating ‘ever-green content’. With over 14 years of experience at Unilever, she talks us through the differences in challenges & opportunities for challenger v/s incumbent brands. In the second half of the episode, she talks about the brand's commitment to leveraging customer insights and how the DTC model allows for a more personal and interactive shopping experience. If you’re looking for insights on building something that’s different & stands out, tune in to this episode. We’re sure you’ll find something that you can take away & apply. 🚀🛍️ Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 📺: https://youtu.be/UIaMkxgsOCc 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Care of brand - Personalised Vitamins 📕 Chapters (00:00:00) - Intro(00:04:50) - Favorite challenger brand(00:08:56) - What is Noteworthy?(00:11:00) - Incumbent v/s Challenger - How do you go to market?(00:19:40) - How does experience at Unilever affect your challenger marketing playbook?(00:23:02) - Aspirational marketing at Noteworthy(00:34:40) - How do you apply what you learn from customer insights?(00:40:00) - Lightning Round(00:40:14) - First Marketing Job(00:40:24) - Best piece of career advice(00:40:38) - Best Marketing ToolScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies a...

How Who Gives A Crap Disrupted The $31bn Toilet Paper Industry

45 min

In this episode of Scratch, the Chief Brand Officer of Who Gives A Crap 🧻, Ronalee Zarate-Bayani, joins us to share how they've turned their unique brand identity and commitment to purpose into their superpower. You’ve probably seen Who Gives a Crap, you know, the colourful wrapped toilet rolls that decorate your cool friend's toilet? Well, you’ll be surprised to hear that Who Gives a Crap is leading the charge when it comes to disrupting and dominating the $31bn toilet paper segment. In this episode, Ronalee talks about the importance of understanding what makes your brand special and using that to stand out instead of focusing too much on the competition. She explains Who Gives A Crap’s business model of donating 60% of their profits to eco-friendly causes and how they navigate the challenges of balancing profit with purpose. She also tells us about the benefits of being a smaller, agile company that can quickly adapt and test new ideas in the market. In the second half, she emphasizes the significance of not just winning customers, but turning them into advocates for the brand 🔈. We learned from her how it's okay for some marketing initiatives to fail, as these are opportunities for learning and growth. She demonstrates how embracing the company's unique strengths and values fosters creativity and innovation through examples. Additionally, she discusses how to strengthen the marketing function by being deliberate about distinguishing short-term from long-term revenues and plans. This episode provides valuable insights into building a profit-first yet purpose-driven brand ♻️. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 📺: https://youtu.be/UIaMkxgsOCc 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Liquid DeathBrewdogOatly📕 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:03:50) - Favorite Challenger Brand 😊 (00:07:40) - What is Who Gives A Crap? 🚽 (00:09:40) - What is the difference between a Chief Brand Officer and Chief Marketing Officer? (00:11:00) - Rules & Principles to Build a Profi...

Fuelling the Future: Unleashing the New Age of NASCAR Fandom

46 min

NASCAR, a titan in the sports industry, is known for its rich history and thrilling races. Peter shares insights into how NASCAR continues to innovate and remain relevant in a rapidly evolving entertainment landscape. 🚗💨🎙️In this episode of Scratch, the CMO of NASCAR, Peter Jung joins us to dive deep into the world of sports marketing, brand evolution, and the key initiatives propelling NASCAR into the future. 🏁🌟 He discusses the importance of category disruption, the impact of viral marketing campaigns, and the strategic focus on diversity and inclusion to broaden NASCAR's fan base. He highlights the role of digital platforms and content creation in engaging new audiences, including a partnership with Netflix for the upcoming show "Full Speed," aimed at giving fans a behind-the-scenes look at the sport. He also touches on the challenges and opportunities in sports marketing, the evolution of NASCAR's strategies, and the significance of building a strong community around the sport. 🧑🤝🧑❤ Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 📺 🖊️ Mentioned in the show: Challenger brand - Stanley DEI initiatives Tableau - can't live without it NASCAR’s show - "Full Speed"New media rights deal - NASCAR📕 Chapters: (00:00:00) - Intro (00:04:00) - Favorite Challenger Brand? 🥊 (00:11:00) - The NASCAR Brand and Business 🏢 (00:18:01) - The Changing Nature of the Sports Category 🏑 (00:22:20) - Approach and Priorities as the CMO of NASCAR (00:26:30 ) - Approach to New and Emerging Channels 📈 (00:32:00) - In-house and External Structure for NASCAR (00:35:10) - Exciting Developments for NASCAR - Full Speed 🚗 (00:42:35 ) - Lightning Round ⚡ (00:42:40) - First Marketing Job you ever had 💼 (00:42:55) - The Best Piece of career advice 🌟 (00:43:39) - Best Brand Campaign (00:44:20) - Best Marketing Tool 🛠️ (00:44:50) - One thing people should do differently 🔄 (00:45:20) - Favourite moment from NASCAR’s Netflix show Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovatio...

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