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James Lawrence

Smarter Marketer

A Marketing , Business and Careers podcast

#153 in Marketing · 🇳🇿
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About the show

Hosted by James Lawrence - Co-Founder of Rocket Agency and B&T Marketer of the Year finalist, each episode features candid conversations with marketers, leaders and innovators on what’s really working in today’s fast-changing landscape. This is the definitive podcast for Australian Marketers.

Newest episodes

122. How Canva's Marketing Team is Making AI Work w. Canva's Jackie Hill

46 min

Canva is one of Australia’s greatest technology success stories. Since launching in Sydney in 2013, it’s grown into a global powerhouse with more than 265 million monthly active users across 190 countries. But how does a company operating at that scale actually use AI across its marketing team? In this episode of Smarter Marketer, Rocket Agency's Co Founder and Host James Lawrence sits down with Jackie Hill, Canva’s Global Marketing AI Lead, to find out. Jackie is responsible for helping Canva’s global marketing team move beyond experimenting with AI and embed it into how they actually work. It’s a challenge facing marketing teams everywhere. With new AI tools launching almost daily, how do you know if you’re keeping up? Where should you be investing your time? And how do you make sure AI is genuinely improving your marketing rather than simply helping you produce more work? Jackie shares a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at Canva’s approach, including the initiatives that have worked, the challenges they’ve encountered and the lessons marketers can apply to their own teams. Key TakeawaysHow Canva is embedding AI into its global marketing operationsWhy Canva gives employees dedicated time to learn, experiment and build with AIReal examples of AI improving marketing workflows, productivity and decision-makingHow Canva measures whether AI is actually delivering valueHow to encourage AI adoption without sacrificing creativity, critical thinking or qualityWhy even the people leading AI transformation feel like they’re falling behind About the guestJackie Hill is Marketing AI Lead at Canva, where she works with the company's global marketing teams to move AI beyond experimentation and build it into how they work every day. Her remit spans AI adoption, measurement and change across the marketing function. She started her career in finance before moving into marketing, where she became known as a technical, systems-minded marketer with a love of marketing automation....

121. How to Get Your Agency to Do Its Best Work w. Rocket Agency's Roeya Arzani

39 min

Two clients can pay the same agency the same amount of money, work with exactly the same people and get very different results. One gets exceptional work while the other gets regular output. Why? And what can in-house marketers do to get the very best from their agency? In this episode, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket Agency’s Head of Client Services, Roeya Arzani, to explore what separates clients who get extraordinary value from those who don’t. They discuss better briefing, avoiding micromanagement, building trust and creating the conditions for exceptional work. Whether you work with a digital, creative, media or PR agency, this episode will help you get more from that relationship. Key takeawaysWhy giving your agency a task instead of a problem might be costing you its best ideas.What spending a full day inside a client’s business taught us that no written brief could.Why the fifth round of feedback on an ad headline might be doing more harm than good.How your agency can help you convince your CEO to increase your marketing budget.The uncomfortable question: Does your agency team actually like working with you?Why having one clear decision-maker on the client side can dramatically improve agency performance.Why the best agency relationships focus on one meaningful business metric rather than dozens of marketing KPIs. About the guestRoeya Arzani is Head of Client Services at Rocket Agency, where she leads the team responsible for building and managing relationships with Rocket’s clients. Having joined Rocket six years ago as an Account Manager, Roeya has worked closely with in-house marketing teams across a wide range of industries, helping them develop strategies, deliver campaigns and get more value from their agency relationships. Connect with Roeya on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://...

120. GEO/AEO, AI Overviews and ChatGPT Ads: Answers to Australian Marketers’ Most Pressing AI Search Questions

35 min

GEO/AEO, AI Overviews and ChatGPT Ads are changing how customers find, research and choose brands. In this episode, Host and Co-Founder of Rocket Agency, James Lawrence, is joined by Rocket's Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, and Head of Paid Media, Sam Lucas, to explain where AI search stands in Australia right now and to answer the questions marketers are asking most. Key Takeaways:How quickly Australians have adopted AI tools, and how much they influence purchase decisionsWhy Google search volume is at record highs even as clicks fallWhere ChatGPT Ads are up to in AustraliaShould you still be investing in Google Ads?How do you measure AI search and prove it's working to your C-suite?Which GEO tracking tools are worth using?SEO or GEO: which should you prioritise, and why?How to write content for both humans and AI Guests:Joe Alder, Head of SEO & GEO, Rocket Agency Joe leads Rocket's SEO and GEO offering. He shapes the agency's product and processes in organic and AI search, and he hires, trains and mentors the team that delivers them. His focus is getting clients results in Google and across AI platforms like ChatGPT, Gemini and Claude. Sam Lucas, Head of Paid Media, Rocket Agency Sam oversees Rocket's full suite of paid channels and leads and mentors the paid media team. He also works on GEO projects with clients, where he connects AI search visibility to paid opportunities like ChatGPT Ads and the AI placements in Google and Microsoft Ads. You can follow Joe and Sam on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder...

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All episodes

122. How Canva's Marketing Team is Making AI Work w. Canva's Jackie Hill

46 min

Canva is one of Australia’s greatest technology success stories. Since launching in Sydney in 2013, it’s grown into a global powerhouse with more than 265 million monthly active users across 190 countries. But how does a company operating at that scale actually use AI across its marketing team? In this episode of Smarter Marketer, Rocket Agency's Co Founder and Host James Lawrence sits down with Jackie Hill, Canva’s Global Marketing AI Lead, to find out. Jackie is responsible for helping Canva’s global marketing team move beyond experimenting with AI and embed it into how they actually work. It’s a challenge facing marketing teams everywhere. With new AI tools launching almost daily, how do you know if you’re keeping up? Where should you be investing your time? And how do you make sure AI is genuinely improving your marketing rather than simply helping you produce more work? Jackie shares a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at Canva’s approach, including the initiatives that have worked, the challenges they’ve encountered and the lessons marketers can apply to their own teams. Key TakeawaysHow Canva is embedding AI into its global marketing operationsWhy Canva gives employees dedicated time to learn, experiment and build with AIReal examples of AI improving marketing workflows, productivity and decision-makingHow Canva measures whether AI is actually delivering valueHow to encourage AI adoption without sacrificing creativity, critical thinking or qualityWhy even the people leading AI transformation feel like they’re falling behind About the guestJackie Hill is Marketing AI Lead at Canva, where she works with the company's global marketing teams to move AI beyond experimentation and build it into how they work every day. Her remit spans AI adoption, measurement and change across the marketing function. She started her career in finance before moving into marketing, where she became known as a technical, systems-minded marketer with a love of marketing automation....

121. How to Get Your Agency to Do Its Best Work w. Rocket Agency's Roeya Arzani

39 min

Two clients can pay the same agency the same amount of money, work with exactly the same people and get very different results. One gets exceptional work while the other gets regular output. Why? And what can in-house marketers do to get the very best from their agency? In this episode, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket Agency’s Head of Client Services, Roeya Arzani, to explore what separates clients who get extraordinary value from those who don’t. They discuss better briefing, avoiding micromanagement, building trust and creating the conditions for exceptional work. Whether you work with a digital, creative, media or PR agency, this episode will help you get more from that relationship. Key takeawaysWhy giving your agency a task instead of a problem might be costing you its best ideas.What spending a full day inside a client’s business taught us that no written brief could.Why the fifth round of feedback on an ad headline might be doing more harm than good.How your agency can help you convince your CEO to increase your marketing budget.The uncomfortable question: Does your agency team actually like working with you?Why having one clear decision-maker on the client side can dramatically improve agency performance.Why the best agency relationships focus on one meaningful business metric rather than dozens of marketing KPIs. About the guestRoeya Arzani is Head of Client Services at Rocket Agency, where she leads the team responsible for building and managing relationships with Rocket’s clients. Having joined Rocket six years ago as an Account Manager, Roeya has worked closely with in-house marketing teams across a wide range of industries, helping them develop strategies, deliver campaigns and get more value from their agency relationships. Connect with Roeya on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://...

120. GEO/AEO, AI Overviews and ChatGPT Ads: Answers to Australian Marketers’ Most Pressing AI Search Questions

35 min

GEO/AEO, AI Overviews and ChatGPT Ads are changing how customers find, research and choose brands. In this episode, Host and Co-Founder of Rocket Agency, James Lawrence, is joined by Rocket's Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, and Head of Paid Media, Sam Lucas, to explain where AI search stands in Australia right now and to answer the questions marketers are asking most. Key Takeaways:How quickly Australians have adopted AI tools, and how much they influence purchase decisionsWhy Google search volume is at record highs even as clicks fallWhere ChatGPT Ads are up to in AustraliaShould you still be investing in Google Ads?How do you measure AI search and prove it's working to your C-suite?Which GEO tracking tools are worth using?SEO or GEO: which should you prioritise, and why?How to write content for both humans and AI Guests:Joe Alder, Head of SEO & GEO, Rocket Agency Joe leads Rocket's SEO and GEO offering. He shapes the agency's product and processes in organic and AI search, and he hires, trains and mentors the team that delivers them. His focus is getting clients results in Google and across AI platforms like ChatGPT, Gemini and Claude. Sam Lucas, Head of Paid Media, Rocket Agency Sam oversees Rocket's full suite of paid channels and leads and mentors the paid media team. He also works on GEO projects with clients, where he connects AI search visibility to paid opportunities like ChatGPT Ads and the AI placements in Google and Microsoft Ads. You can follow Joe and Sam on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast: This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder...

119. Why Marketing is About Behaviour Change w. Thinkerbell's Dan Monheit

43 min

Most marketing briefs never mention behaviour. They mention a product launch, a credit card switch, a new vehicle landing next month. Dan Monheit's argument is that every one of them is the same brief wearing a different outfit: you want someone to do something they're not currently doing. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence and Dan Monheit, Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell, discuss which biases suit which problems, why the best in-house marketers are really pitch people in client roles, what happens to brand building when a third of your audience asks an LLM first and more. Key Takeaways:How Dan ended up in behavioural science by coming at it backwards, from advertising rather than academiaWhy he thinks every brief is a behaviour change briefWhy you should put the customer and the brand on equal footing, rather than the customer firstThe peak-end rule, and why the last experience shapes how people remember everythingEffort bias: why invisible work is worthless workWhy people can't reliably tell you why they buy thingsHow the best in-house marketers build a business case that actually landsWhere AI helps and where it costs you: writing to communicate vs writing to thinkWhat LLMs change for brand building and the consideration set Guest:Dan Monheit is Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell and one of Australia's most recognised voices on behavioural science in marketing. He co-founded Hardhat in 2005, straight out of uni, and spent fifteen years reinventing it before landing on the idea that held it all together: every brief is a behaviour change brief. Hardhat was acquired by Thinkerbell in 2024. You can follow Dan on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Markete...

118. LinkedIn Ads in 2026 - Targeting, Creative and How to Avoid Common Mistakes w. B2Linked's AJ Wilcox

38 min

AJ Wilcox, founder of a US-based LinkedIn Ads agency, has run five of LinkedIn’s top 10 highest-spending accounts of all time and audited hundreds of accounts. He sees the same five mistakes that are often the difference between accounts that perform and don’t; simple fixes that most advertisers never think to check. In this episode, he joins Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder, James Lawrence, to walk through what's actually moving the needle on LinkedIn in 2026; from the settings worth double-checking, to why "thought leader ads" are outperforming company posts by 5x on engagement, to the connection between a strong LinkedIn presence and visibility in LLMs like ChatGPT and Claude. Key Takeaways:How AJ went from a first-week LinkedIn pilot to running the platform's biggest-ever spending accountFive settings worth reviewing in every LinkedIn ads account: geography, audience expansion, network placements, bidding method, and suggested bid rangesWhy a post from a person consistently outperforms a post from a brand, and a simple way to get executives producing months of content in one sittingA colour theory approach to static creative that helps ads stand out against LinkedIn's blue-and-white interfaceWhy B2Linked doesn't run LinkedIn ads for its own business and what that says about the relationship between organic and paidThe CRM integrations most teams underuse, and why manual lead follow-up is costing more than people realiseWhy LLMs are emerging as a real lead source and the simple form-field fix that gets them properly credited Guest:AJ Wilcox is the Founder of B2Linked, a LinkedIn Ads-only agency that helps B2B marketers get better results from their LinkedIn campaigns. AJ has worked with 5 of LinkedIn’s top 10 spending accounts and managed over $150 million in LinkedIn ad spend. He is a trusted expert in LinkedIn Ads and has spoken at more than 80 industry events and appeared on over 200 podcasts. You can follow AJ on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn:...

117. Julian Cole's Blueprint for Strategy That Sticks

46 min

The real test of a solid marketing strategy is whether you understand it well enough to stress-test it, and actually use it to make a decision when it counts. And now that AI can spit out a "strategic" brief in seconds, that distinction matters more. Looking strategic and being strategic are not the same thing, and it’s starting to become obvious. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with renowned strategist Julian Cole, Founder of Strategy Finishing School and someone who's spent his career inside the rooms where PlayStation, Snickers and M&M's strategies were crafted to talk about what good strategy really looks like and where genuinely pivotal insights actually come from. Key Takeaways:Julian's path from social and digital strategy in Australia to running strategy teams at BBH and BBDO in New YorkWhy nailing the fundamentals matters more in an AI-powered world as the tools get ‘smarter’ and the bar for judgment goes upHow to use AI as a sparring partner for strategyThe four essential ingredients of any strategy: the goal, the problem, the insight and the solutionUntangling business strategy, marketing strategy, brand strategy and creative strategy: what each actually does, and how they fit togetherWhat separates a genuine consumer insight from a nice-sounding observation, and why the best ones change how you see the problem entirelyPractical, unglamorous ways to find insights you can get started with todayWar stories from behind the scenes on PlayStation and SnickersHow smaller marketing teams can think more strategically without a dedicated strategist on staffWhy the best strategies boil down to one clear idea that can guide creative, brand and marketing decisions Guest:Julian Cole is a strategy consultant and the founder of Strategy Finishing School. He's worked with global brands including Apple, Uber, Meta and Disney, and held senior strategy roles at BBH and BBDO in New York, where he worked on campaigns for PlayStation, Snickers, Bacardi, Mountain De...

116. What High-Performing Marketers Do Differently w. Neon Ambition's Jordan Slover

30 min

Rocket Agency's Co-Founder and podcast host, James Lawrence, sits down with US-based agency-owner Jordan Slover to explore the common traits they’ve seen across high-performing marketers and marketing teams, drawing on 50 years combined experience working with over 500 businesses in Australia, the UK and the USA. Key Takeaways:Why clarity about what success looks like helps marketers stay focusedWhy chasing every new platform, tool or tactic can do more harm than goodHow a strong understanding of brand can improve long-term marketing performanceWhy staying close to customers is one of the most valuable things a marketer can doHow genuinely considering the advice of specialists and building trust leads to stronger agency partnershipsWhy relentless curiosity and a genuine desire to learn are essential marketing traitsHow reading widely and staying across news and culture can make you a better marketerWhy marketers shouldn’t rely on AI to assess strategies without applying context and critical thinking Guest:Jordan Slover began his digital marketing career at Google, working in New York and London before moving to Australia. He later returned to the United States and founded Neon Ambition, a lead generation and digital marketing agency that works primarily with professional services businesses. Neon Ambition has appeared on the Inc. 5000 list of America’s fastest-growing private companies for three consecutive years. You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn. Find Us Online: James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James...

115. How to Win in AI Search: Proven Tactics and Research Across ChatGPT, Gemini & Google AI w. Joe Alder

44 min

AI search has moved far beyond theory. 14.3 million Australians now use ChatGPT, Gemini and Google AI Overviews to research and decide which brands they trust, often before they ever visit a website. But most marketers are still measuring the wrong metrics and applying SEO tactics that don’t fully translate to AI search. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack exactly what Rocket has learnt after three years of research, studying the landscape, testing and optimising brands for AI search. Rather than discussing AI at a high level, this episode dives into the practical strategies that are delivering results today, including technical fixes, content strategy, brand sentiment, AI measurement and the framework Rocket uses with clients to improve visibility across different AI search tools. Key takeaways:Why AI search is already changing how customers buyThe STAR framework Rocket uses to build GEO strategiesThe technical issues quietly preventing AI platforms from accessing many websitesWhy trust, reviews and third-party sources matter more than everHow to improve the information AI platforms use when describing your businessWhy AI referral traffic dramatically understates AI’s real commercial impactThe metrics marketers should actually be measuringReal examples of brands improving AI visibility through practical changes Guest:Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini. You can follow Joe on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcastRocket Agency...

114. Marketing's Credibility Problem: What Attribution Gets Wrong and Incrementality Gets Right w. Analytic Partners’ Paul Sinkinson

39 min

Marketing teams have never had more data available to them, yet many still find it hard (often harder than ever) to confidently answer a simple question: what’s actually driving growth? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder and Host James Lawrence sits down with Paul Sinkinson, Managing Director for APAC at Analytic Partners, to explore how marketing measurement is evolving and where marketers still get it wrong. They discuss why incrementality remains one of the most misunderstood concepts in marketing and how leading brands are balancing short-term optimisation with long-term growth. Key Takeaways:What has changed in marketing measurement over the past two years and why marketers are adopting a more holistic approachThe growing challenge of fragmented platform measurement and conflicting data sourcesHow marketers should think about attribution today and where it still provides valueWhat incrementality really means and why it matters more than most marketers realiseHow marketers can build credibility with CFOs and leadership teams through better measurementWhy some brands gain market share during economic downturns while others pull backHow fast-growing brands can transition from performance-led growth to investing in future demandPaul’s predictions on the future of measurement, brand building and distinctive brand assets Guest:Paul Sinkinson is the Managing Director of Sydney-based global marketing consultancy Analytic Partners, which delivers customised analytics that improve sales and marketing ROI. He has over 20 years of marketing analytics experience across many of Australia’s leading brands, and was previously a Partner at the Leading Edge, and Director at Nielsen, to name a few. Follow Paul on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ R...

113. James Hurman on Building Future Demand: Creativity, Brand and Escaping the ‘Performance Trap’

39 min

Most marketers are under pressure to deliver results fast. But when all of the focus goes into capturing demand that already exists, businesses eventually limit their ability to grow. Sustainable growth comes from balancing the customers ready to buy today with those who will enter the market tomorrow. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with marketing effectiveness expert, entrepreneur and author James Hurman to unpack the ideas behind his new book, Future Demand. Together, they explore why so many businesses fall into the performance trap, what future demand actually means, why creativity remains one of marketing's most powerful growth levers, and how marketers can better communicate the value of long-term investment to CEOs, CFOs and boards. Visit: futuredemand.com Key Takeaways:Why businesses that focus only on short-term performance eventually hit a growth ceilingThe ‘performance trap’ and how marketing teams unintentionally create itThe role creativity plays in capturing the attention of future buyersWhy marketers need to become better at communicating marketing's value internallyPractical ways to build support for long-term marketing investment across leadership teamsHow companies can gradually shift from performance-only marketing to a more balanced growth strategy Guest:James Hurman is one of the world’s leading experts on marketing and advertising effectiveness. A former strategic planner, James has won more than 50 advertising effectiveness awards and was named the world’s number one strategic planning director in 2013. He is the co-founder of Tracksuit, Senior Advisor at Lions Advisory, Program Director of the Master of Advertising Effectiveness and author of Future Demand. You can follow James on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: h...

112. State of the Pitch 2026 - How To Find The Right Agency Partner w. TrinityP3’s Darren Woolley

49 min

Few decisions have a bigger impact on marketing performance than choosing the right agency partner. Yet according to TrinityP3's latest State of the Pitch Report, many pitch processes are still creating frustration on both sides of the table. Agencies invest significant time and resources into pitches, while marketers often struggle with unclear scopes. More than anything, this leads to relationships starting on the wrong foot before a contract is even signed. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host James Lawrence sits down with TrinityP3 Founder and CEO Darren Woolley to unpack the findings from the 2026 State of the Pitch report. Together they discuss why some pitch processes consistently underperform and what marketers can do to build stronger, more productive agency relationships from the very beginning. Read: The State of the Pitch Report Key Takeaways:The biggest findings from TrinityP3's 2026 State of the Pitch reportWhy agency dissatisfaction with pitch processes remains stubbornly highThe impact poor pitch management can have on agency performance and marketer reputationWhy defining scope of work remains one of the biggest challenges in agency selectionHow AI and changing agency pricing models are increasing the importance of better scopingThe ideal number of agencies to involve in a competitive pitch processWhen marketers should pitch, and when alternative approaches may deliver better outcomesThe role procurement should play in agency selection and where it often goes wrongHow marketers can create stronger agency relationships before a contract is even signedBest-practice feedback, communication and transparency throughout the pitch process Guest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an...

111. LinkedIn B2B Institute’s Ty Heath on Why the Best B2B Marketing Is Contrarian

47 min

Episode Description:Most marketers are keen to try the new shiny tactic, but what if the biggest B2B marketing opportunities come from understanding what doesn’t change? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder & Host, James Lawrence, sits down with Ty Heath, Global Thought Leadership Lead at LinkedIn and co-founder of the LinkedIn B2B Institute, to explore the marketing principles that continue to drive growth in an increasingly complex world. Drawing on LinkedIn’s research and the B2B Institute’s latest work, Ty unpacks why brand remains one of the most powerful growth drivers in B2B and why many marketers are focusing on the wrong signals. Resources: LinkedIn B2B InstituteWebinar: B2B Trends for the Contrarian MarketerWhitepaper: How B2B Brands Grow Key Takeaways:Why the best marketers focus on what doesn't change rather than chasing every new trendThe contrarian marketer framework and how to find growth opportunities others overlookWhy buyers often create a shortlist before entering the market, and what that means for brand buildingThe 95/5 rule and why long-term brand investment remains critical for B2B growthThe "sea of sameness" problem and how brands can build stronger distinctivenessThe dangers of over-segmentation and the role of category entry points in reaching more buyersHidden buyers: who really influences B2B purchasing decisions beyond the obvious stakeholdersThe sales and marketing alignment gap and what businesses can do to close it Guest: Tyrona Heath leads global thought leadership at LinkedIn Marketing and is the co-founder of LinkedIn’s B2B Institute. She is also a board member of the American Advertising Federation and a leading voice in B2B marketing effectiveness. Through LinkedIn’s research and partnerships with leading marketing thinkers and institutions, Ty helps marketers make clearer, evidence-based decisions about brand, memory, creativity and growth. You can follow TY on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:J...

110. AI Search In Australia: Google, ChatGPT & The New Rules Of Visibility w. Rocket Agency's Joe Alder

43 min

Episode Description:Is Google losing ground? How much traffic are tools like ChatGPT really driving? And what does visibility look like when answers increasingly happen inside AI platforms instead of on your website? In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO, Joe Alder, to unpack what’s actually happening inside AI search in Australia right now. Drawing on Rocket’s latest GEO research across more than 150 Australian businesses and over one million data points, they explore how platforms like ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews, Gemini and Perplexity are reshaping visibility, influence and digital measurement for brands, and what marketers should focus on next. Watch our webinar: AI Search in Australia 2026 - How to Rank in ChatGPT & Google AI Key Takeaways:Why Google search traffic is declining even while total search activity continues to growHow AI Overviews are impacting click-through rates for brands ranking in top Google positionsWhat Rocket’s research revealed about the overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibilityWhy ChatGPT influences purchasing decisions far beyond the traffic it directly sends to websitesThe growing importance of brand perception inside large language modelsWhy AI search optimisation requires a different approach to traditional SEOThe technical website issues preventing many brands from appearing in AI search resultsWhat types of content are performing best inside large language modelsWhy authority, citations and off-site brand signals matter more than ever in AI searchThe metrics marketers should actually be tracking to measure AI search performance Guest:Joe Alder is Rocket’s Head of SEO & GEO and one of Australia’s leading voices on the evolving AI search landscape. He has worked closely with Australian brands to help them navigate the shift from traditional search to AI-driven discovery, combining deep technical expertise with practical strategies for improving visibility across platforms like C...

109. Marketing Mix Modelling: What It Is, Why It Matters & Where AI Fits In w. Mutinex’s Henry Innis

28 min

Episode Description: As attribution becomes less reliable and marketing teams face more pressure to prove what drives growth, marketing mix modelling is becoming a popular way to understand the full commercial picture behind marketing performance. In this episode, James Lawrence speaks with Henry Innis, CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, about how modern MMM can help marketers move beyond channel-level reporting and last-click attribution. Henry explains why media alone rarely tells the full story, how variables like pricing, promotions, competitor activity, economic shifts and brand equity influence results Key Takeaways:Why Marketing Mix Modelling is becoming more important as attribution signals weakenHow MMM helps marketers understand growth beyond media performance aloneThe role of external factors like weather, CPI, fuel costs and competitor spend in performanceHow modern MMM can support faster, more confident decision-makingHow AI is reducing the effort required to structure data, run models and generate insightsWhy brand activity can contribute to both short-term sales and long-term memory effectsWhy siloed measurement often leads to siloed executionHow marketers can use MMM to think more like capital allocators than channel operators Guest:Henry Innis is the CEO and co-founder of Mutinex, a marketing measurement company helping brands improve growth decisions through modern Marketing Mix Modelling. Mutinex’s Growth OS platform brings together media, pricing, promotions, brand and external market factors to help organisations understand what is really driving business performance. Henry offers a practical perspective on marketing effectiveness, attribution, AI and how measurement is evolving for modern growth teams. You can follow Henry on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/...

108. How to Get the Most Out of Your Agency w. Neon Ambition’s Jordan Slover

38 min

Episode Description: What does a great agency relationship actually look like when pressure on marketing performance has never been higher? As budgets tighten and expectations rise, the difference between an average agency partnership and a high-performing one often comes down to how well both sides work together, not just what’s delivered. In this episode, Host James Lawrence sits down with Jordan Slover, founder of one of the fastest-growing agencies in the US, Neon Ambition, to unpack what it really takes to get the best out of your agency partners. Drawing on years of experience on both the agency and client side, they explore the habits, behaviours and expectations that separate strong, results-driven relationships from the ones that quietly fall apart. Key Takeaways:Why agreeing on clear goals and KPIs upfront sets the foundation for better performanceHow feedback, both positive and constructive, shapes stronger agency output over timeWhat separates a true partnership from a transactional client-agency relationshipThe role of trust, and why over-directing your agency can limit resultsHow transparency from the client side leads to better decision-making and outcomesWhy consistent communication (without micromanaging) keeps things moving forwardThe importance of staying involved, even when you’ve outsourced executionHow small human factors (respect, empathy, rapport) impact performance more than you think Guest:Jordan Slover is the founder of Neon Ambition, a US-based digital agency specialising in paid media, SEO and content marketing. With a background at Google and experience working across international markets, Jordan brings a practical, grounded perspective on how agencies and clients can work better together to drive meaningful results. You can follow Jordan on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website...

107. What Australian Influencer Research Says About Creator Marketing in 2026 w. Impact Agency’s Trish McGee

29 min

Episode Description: How should Australian marketers adapt their approach to influencers and content creators as algorithmic changes, platform shifts and changing audience expectations reshape the landscape? Host James Lawrence sits down with Trish McGee, Group Account Director at Impact Agency, to unpack the findings of Impact's 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, Australian research that goes straight to the source, surveying local content creators from micro to mega. From platform preferences and AI concerns to what good measurement looks like, this is a valuable listen for any marketer working in or considering the influencer space. Key Takeaways:Why authenticity and long-term partnerships remain the foundation of effective influencer marketingHow creators are using AI, and why they're cautious about brands that rely on it too heavilyWhich platforms creators prefer for paid collaborations versus organic contentWhy giving creators genuine creative control leads to better outcomes, and why it's harder than it soundsHow measurement is evolving beyond reach, with saves, shares and quality comments becoming stronger indicators of successWhy white-listing is still meeting resistance from creatorsWhere Australia sits in the global influencer landscape, and why there's still significant room to grow Read: The 2026 Influencer Pulse Check Report Guest:Trish McGee is Group Account Director at Impact Agency, a full-service communications agency headquartered in Sydney. Trish leads client strategy and partnerships while overseeing Impact's Victorian presence. She was a key driver behind the 2026 Influencer Pulse Check, which surveys Australian content creators across all tiers on how they're navigating AI, changing algorithms, brand partnerships and the road ahead. You can follow Trish on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Websit...

106. Digital Marketing in Australia in 2026 - Your Questions Answered w. Rocket Agency's Top Experts

52 min

Episode Description: What would great marketing look like in Australia this year, especially when the rules are changing faster than most teams can keep up? In this episode, Rocket Agency’s top experts unpack the biggest shifts shaping digital marketing in 2026, from AI search and zero-click behaviour to rising costs, evolving content expectations and the growing importance of creative. Host James Lawrence discusses marketers’ most pressing questions with Mariano Di Lascio (Head of Digital), Joe Alder (Head of SEO), Leesa Mealing (Digital Creative Lead) and David Lawrence (MD). What follows is a practical, honest look at what’s working, what’s not and where marketers should be focusing next. Key Takeaways:Key trends shaping the Australian marketing landscape this yearIf zero-click search continues to grow, how should marketers measure SEO success differently?With AI-generated content flooding the internet, what does “good” content look like now?One AI use case that’s genuinely delivering ROI?With CPCs rising and competition intensifying, what are the first three levers you’d pull before increasing budget?If you’re leading marketing in 2026, what are you actually automating with AI, and what are you deliberately keeping human?LinkedIn for B2B: are most brands under-investing in creative, targeting, or measurement?Is the funnel broken or are marketers just running the same message at every stage?If you’re a lean team with limited budget, what’s the one channel and one capability you would prioritise this year?With Meta and Google controlling audience data, how much should brands invest in building owned channels right now? … and more pressing questions. Guests:Mariano Di Lascio leads a team of outstanding marketers at Rocket Agency across paid search and paid social channels. Together with the team, he has won some outstanding awards for client campaigns, including Best Integrated Campaign at APAC Search Awards, Best Integration of Search into Cross-Channel Marketing...

105. Building a Standout Brand in a “Boring” Category w. Cleancorp’s Lisa Macqueen

41 min

How do you market an ‘unglamorous’ business where your category doesn’t sell itself? And what does it take to build a brand that people trust and remember when your offering is not something buyers get excited about? Host James Lawrence sits down with Lisa Macqueen, CEO of Cleancorp, to unpack how she’s built one of Australia’s most respected service brands in one of the most commoditised categories there is - commercial cleaning. From personal branding and LinkedIn content that genuinely resonates, to building trust at scale through culture and customer experience, this conversation is a masterclass in doing the fundamentals exceptionally well. Key Takeaways:How to build brand influence in a “boring” industry where buyers see the service as a grudge purchaseWhy founder-led LinkedIn content can become one of the most effective marketing channels in B2BWhat happens when you deliberately position your brand differently from the rest of your categoryWhy putting people at the centre of your marketing can strengthen both culture and client relationshipsThe role authenticity plays in building trust with prospects before a sales conversation even beginsHow modern buyers research suppliers before they ever contact a companyWhy curiosity and experimentation are becoming essential traits for marketers in a fast-changing landscape Guest:Lisa Macqueen is the CEO of Cleancorp, a national commercial cleaning business servicing some of Australia’s most recognisable brands. With a background in sales and marketing across global hotel and resort businesses, Lisa brought a fundamentally different mindset into an industry long defined by commoditisation. Under her leadership, Cleancorp has grown into a people-first, values-led organisation, earning B Corp certification, national recognition as one of Australia’s best places to work and a reputation for doing things differently. Lisa is also a LinkedIn Top Voice, using her personal platform to share candid insights on building meaningf...

104. B2B Marketing in 2026: Changing Buyer Groups, AI Search, Digital-First Audiences and More w. Green Hat’s Stuart Jaffray

36 min

If most B2B buyers already know who they’re going to choose before they even speak to sales, what does that mean for your B2B marketing strategy? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence sits down with Stuart Jaffray, Managing Director of Green Hat, to unpack the latest findings from the APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report. With data from over 800 buyers across the region, the message is clear: the rhythm of B2B buying has changed under the current economic and technological conditions. Read Green Hat’s report: The APAC B2B Buyer Journey Research Report 2025 Key Takeaways:What happens before a buyer speaks to sales, and why that’s where most decisions are actually madeWhy “demand generation” might really just be demand captureThe changes in buying group size and timing, and what’s driving itHow AI is accelerating first contact, even as buyers try to self-serveWhat a Millennial and Gen Z-led buying committee expects from your contentWhy ungating content is uncomfortable but increasingly necessaryThe one metric revenue teams should prioritise over MQLs Guest:Stuart Jaffray is the Managing Director of Green Hat, a specialist B2B marketing agency operating across the APAC region. He’s spent his career working at the intersection of brand, demand and revenue, helping complex organisations align marketing and sales around how buying decisions actually get made. Previously he has steered strategy and growth at global advertising giant Starcom and shaped premium brand experiences at BMW Australia, bringing a deep understanding of customer behaviour, brand positioning and commercial impact. With this blend of big-brand marketing and agency-led demand acceleration, Stuart brings a commercial and strategic lens to B2B growth. You can follow Stuart on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https...

103. The End of SXSW, the Craft of Marketing to Marketers and What’s Changing in 2026 w. Clear Hayes' Alex Hayes

34 min

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with Alex Hayes, Founder of Clear Hayes, to unpack what it really means to market to marketers. From building Clear Hayes House at SXSW Sydney to launching award-winning branded content for global platforms, Alex shares hard-earned lessons from both sides of the fence; as a former editor of B&T and Mumbrella, and now as a global B2B communications specialist. Key Takeaways:Why “don’t be boring” is more than a tagline in B2BAre we overcomplicating marketing when simplification might be the real edge?How brand and performance work together, and why future demand mattersWhat marketers need to do to reposition themselves inside the C-suiteWhy upskilling in fundamentals is becoming a non-negotiable Guest:Alex Hayes is the Founder of Clear Hayes, a B2B communications agency specialising in marketing to marketers. Before launching the agency, Alex was Editor of both B&T and Mumbrella, where he covered some of the industry’s biggest stories and built a deep understanding of the people behind the platforms. Today, Clear Hayes works with clients across Australia, New Zealand, the UK, the US and Europe, helping brands connect with marketers in ways that are engaging and strategically sharp. Alex brings a rare perspective shaped by journalism, global industry exposure and years spent helping marketing brands cut through in a crowded, often self-referential category. You can follow Alex on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling...

102. Creativity That Pays Its Way: How to Link Ideas to Commercial Outcomes w. The Hallway's Jules Hall

40 min

When the pressure for short-term results keeps getting louder, how and why should you still emphasise creativity? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence sits down with Jules Hall, CEO and Founder of The Hallway, to unpack how creativity, data and commercial thinking need to work together if brands want sustainable growth. From navigating short-termism and AI hype to building credibility with CFOs and boards, Jules shares a grounded, practical view on what effective marketing leadership looks like today, and what it takes to earn the licence to do truly great creative work. Watch Cardboard Cake - The Hallway’s Cannes Lion-winning ad B Corp - Fat Cats Key Takeaways:Why creativity isn’t at odds with commercial rigour, and why “trust me” no longer cuts itHow the best marketers link brand investment to real business outcomesWhat AI is actually useful for inside agencies (and where humans still win)Why short-term pressure is holding marketing back and how leaders can balance bothHow to “market marketing” internally and earn trust across the businessWhat the Webjet rebrand reveals about modern brand growth and measurementWhy relevance to culture still matters, even in a fragmented media landscape Guest:Jules Hall is the CEO and Founder of The Hallway, one of Australia’s most awarded independent creative agencies. Since founding the agency in 2007, Jules has led work for brands including Google, Suncorp Bank, BINGE and Webjet, and helped The Hallway earn honours such as B&T Independent Agency of the Year and Campaign Asia Independent Agency of the Year. In 2024, Jules and his team won a Cannes Lion for design - a standout achievement for an Australian independent agency. You can follow Jules on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https:...

From the Archives: Dr. Robert Cialdini on Persuasion and Influence in Modern Marketing

53 min

What makes people say "yes"? Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder James Lawrence sits down with Dr. Robert Cialdini, the godfather of influence and the world’s foremost authority on the psychology of persuasion, to talk about the timeless principles behind his work, his seventh principle of influence - Unity - and how AI, ethics and empathy are shaping persuasion in modern marketing. Key Takeaways:Origin story: How Dr. Cialdini went “undercover” in multiple industries to discover the universal principles of influenceA walkthrough of the original six principles - Reciprocity, Scarcity, Authority, Consistency, Liking and Social ProofThe 7th principle - Unity: Why bonds formed by shared identity matter todayThe importance of ethics: Why marketers should use persuasion techniques truthfully and responsiblyInfluence vs cultural differences: How different regions (e.g., Australia, Asia, Scandinavia) prioritise different principles of influenceThe rise of AI: How marketers are using AI to apply Cialdini’s principlesThe science of “pre-suasion” and how setting context before your message boosts effectivenessReal-world examples of effective use of influence and persuasion from brands like Avis, L’Oreal and Best Buy Guest:Dr. Robert Cialdini is a globally renowned psychologist and the bestselling author of Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Pre-Suasion, and Yes!. His groundbreaking research on why people say 'yes' has shaped the way professionals across marketing, sales, leadership and behavioral science approach persuasion.  He is often referred to as the godfather of influence, and his principles of influence drive ethical influence strategies today. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https...

From the Archives: Marketing Under Pressure: Managing Stress, Sleep and Decision-Making w. Dr. Jemma King

56 min

In marketing, deadlines are relentless and expectations are high. It’s critical to manage stress and make clear-headed decisions under pressure. In this episode of Smarter Marketer, host James Lawrence chats with Dr. Jemma King - founder of BioPsychAnalytics and expert in stress, resilience and high performance.  Having worked with elite organisations like the Australian Olympic Swim Team, the Australian Defence Force, McKinsey and Atlassian, Dr.King shares science-backed insights on managing burnout, improving decision-making and optimising sleep for peak performance. Whether you're leading a team, juggling campaigns, or striving for balance in your personal life, this episode will equip you with practical strategies to navigate the pressures of marketing. Key Takeaways:Dr. Jemma King’s journey - How she became a leading expert in stress research and high-performance psychology.Why marketers are under pressure And the need to manage stress for long-term successScience-backed strategies to reduce stress and prevent burnout – Practical techniques used by elite athletes, military personnel and corporate leaders to stay resilient The role of sleep in peak performance - How sleep quality directly impacts decision-making, creativity and overall health.Actionable tips to improve sleep for better health: How to measure sleep quality and its effects on energy and performance.The hidden impact of alcohol on sleep cycles and cognitive function.Simple ways to eliminate sleep-disrupting distractions.How dim lighting before bedtime signals your brain to relax.The science behind a 40-degree hot bath as a sleep aid.How cutting back on sugar can significantly improve sleep quality. Beyond sleep: The next most powerful factors in resilience - regular exercise, a balanced diet, meaningful relationships, fulfilling work and financial stability.Tactical ways to build a stress-resilient life by structuring your day, improving your work environment and developing a low-stress mindset.Dec...

From the Archives: Persuasion, Manipulation and Behavioural Psychology: How Consumer Choice is Shaped w. Thinkerbell's Dan Monheit

48 min

In marketing, there exists a fine line between influencing decisions and crossing into manipulation. The difference? One builds trust while the other erodes it. Host James Lawrence chats with Dan Monheit, Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell and former CEO of creative behavioural science agency HardHat, about applying behavioural science principles like default bias and anchoring to your marketing, related ethical considerations and how to draw the line between persuasion and manipulation. Key Takeaways:Dan’s journey - starting Hardhat and his interest in behavioural scienceIntroduction to behavioural science and it’s connection to marketingWhat are some common behavioural biases you see everyday? -Default bias -Framing -Anchoring -Loss aversion -Effort bias Ethics in persuasion vs manipulationNavigating dark patternsHow context impacts perception and shapes biasesEssential behavioural science resources for marketers Guest:Dan Monheit is a leader in creative behavioural science. In 2005, he founded Hardhat, a pioneering agency that worked with top brands like Mattel, Bega Dairy, the Victorian Government, Kogan, DocuSign and Afterpay. Under his direction, Hardhat became a go-to agency for brands looking to understand and influence consumer behaviour. In October 2024, Hardhat was acquired by Thinkerbell, where Dan now serves as Chief CX Thinker, applying his expertise to elevate customer experiences through a blend of creativity and behavioural insights. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a...

101. Attribution Is Breaking: How Marketers Should Rethink Paid Media in 2026 w. Rocket Agency's Adrian Oguz

44 min

As platforms push Performance Max, Advantage+ and new modelling systems, we’re entering a world where results often look better in-platform than they do in reality. Behind the scenes, attribution is becoming harder and marketers are being forced to rethink how they interpret success altogether. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Paid Media Manager, Adrian Oguz, to unpack what truly matters when you’re running paid media in an AI-driven landscape. Adrian shares an unfiltered view on automation, performance loops, the limits of attribution and how in-house marketers can step back and measure what actually drives growth, and not just what looks good on a dashboard. Key Takeaways:Why AI-driven campaign types often optimise toward the easiest conversions, not the most valuable onesHow to recognise when Performance Max has fallen into the “existing customer loop”The hidden risks of lead-gen automation and why spam leads often spike before performance improvesThe simple macro metrics that reveal whether your media is genuinely growing the businessHow channels like YouTube can drive huge results without showing any conversions in-platformWhy creative is becoming the new targeting, especially inside Meta’s evolving ecosystemHow to design tests that prove whether a channel is actually contributing to growthWhen it’s time to scale spend, and when stability matters more than chasing the next tactic Guest:Adrian Oguz is a Paid Media Manager at Rocket Agency, overseeing multi-million-dollar budgets across search, social and programmatic. With his clear, practical approach, he’s led multiple award-winning campaigns for various business types and industries across the APAC Search Awards and SEMrush Awards year after year. You can follow Adrian on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket...

100. How Attention Is Rewriting the Rules of Advertising w. Amplified's Dr. Karen Nelson-Field

37 min

Marketers have long optimised for visibility and memory, but in our metric-focused industry, are we measuring what really matters? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence speaks with Dr. Karen Nelson-Field, Founder of Amplified, about why attention is the real currency of modern advertising and how to measure it effectively. From the myth of virality to the flaws in CPMs, Karen shares what years of research reveal about how people truly engage with ads, and what marketers need to do next to stay ahead. Key Takeaways:Dr. Karen’s journey: from academic researcher to founder, shaping the global conversation on attention measurementWhy traditional metrics like reach, impressions and engagement fail to capture real ad effectivenessHow attention measurement works and why it’s revolutionising media planning and buyingThe difference between active, passive and non-attention, and how they impact ROIWhy CPM should stand for “Cost per Meaningless Thousand”How creative and media need to work together for attention to truly convertWhy cheaper ad formats often deliver worse ROI than expectedThe role of AI and synthetic audiences in scaling attention measurementThe future: the unification of creative and media through AI-driven tools Additional resource: The Eye-Watering Cost of Dull Media Guest:Dr. Karen Nelson-Field is a globally recognised researcher and entrepreneur reshaping how marketers think about effectiveness. As the Founder and CEO of Amplified, she leads pioneering work in attention measurement across platforms and formats. A former academic turned industry innovator, Karen’s research has influenced how the world’s biggest brands evaluate advertising performance.  Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-...

99. Why “In-House vs Agency” Misses the Point w. TrinityP3's Darren Woolley

39 min

As 2025 comes to a close, the conversation around in-housing has never been more confusing. With rising pressures on budgets and the disruption caused by AI, businesses are being forced to rethink what the right marketing structure might look like  for them. In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence speaks with Darren Woolley, Founder and Global CEO of Australia’s leading marketing management consultancy TrinityP3. Together they unpack the myths surrounding in-housing and outsourcing, and what research really says about cost, culture, productivity and creativity. Key Takeaways:Why “in-housing vs. agency” is the wrong question to ask and what the right balance looks likeThe hidden costs that make many in-house teams more expensive than expectedHow in-house agencies can fall into creative myopia and how to bring external stimulus back inWhy AI is more than just efficiency: accountability, smarter decision-making, strategic advantage and moreThe three challenges keeping marketers up at night: tighter budgets, proving ROI and keeping pace with changeHow agencies remain indispensable by offering perspective and speed that internal teams can’t easily replicate Guest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director. You can follow Darren on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfC...

98. The Growth of Outdoor Media in Australia w. oOH! Media’s Josh Gurgiel

42 min

Once thought of as a “traditional” channel, outdoor has once again become one of the most creative and technology-integrated mediums in modern marketing. As audiences move faster and attention gets harder to hold, out-of-home (OOH) continues to prove its staying power. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Josh Gurgiel, Head of Creative at POLY (oOh!media’s content and innovation hub), to unpack how Australia’s largest OOH network is evolving, from the rise of digital formats and AI-driven creative to why simplicity and emotion still sit at the heart of every great campaign. Key Takeaways:Why OOH remains one of the most powerful full-funnel channels, and will continue to beThe creative rules that separate great outdoor work from visual clutterHow motion and real-time creative are reshaping outdoor storytellingWhy consistency and context, not constant reinvention, drive long-term brand resonanceHow brands like Specsavers, McDonald’s and Bankwest are redefining what ‘public space art’ can beWhy static and digital work best together, and what that means for campaign planning in 2026A look ahead: from immersive brand experiences to outdoor as cultural content Guest:Josh Gurgiel is the Head of Creative at POLY, the content and creative innovation hub within oOh!media. With a career spanning creative direction, brand strategy and production, Josh leads the team shaping the next era of OOH innovation. His work with leading Australian and global brands continues to push the boundaries of how creativity, technology and data intersect in public space. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/ Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the defin...

97. Leadership in Marketing: How Today’s Marketing Leaders are Creating Impact w. Emma Logan

45 min

What does it really mean to lead marketing in 2025? In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence sits down with executive brand strategist Emma Logan to unpack the realities facing modern marketing leaders, from blurred job boundaries and rising stakeholder expectations to the personal toll of visibility and performance. Emma shares why every senior marketer already has an “executive brand”, whether they’ve defined it or not, and how failing to own that narrative means letting others do it for you. Together, she and James explore what authentic leadership looks like in a post-pandemic world, how to navigate complexity without burning out, why connection and energy management are not just nice-to-haves and more. Key Takeaways:Emma’s journey - The story behind The Emma Logan ProjectWhy every CMO needs an intentional executive brand and what happens if you don’t define itThe growing complexity of the marketing role: from AI and capability gaps to shifting cultural expectationsHow trust, transparency and delivery underpin influence at the C-suite and board levelNetworking as a leadership superpower: the ROI of connection and communityWhy energy, recovery and self-awareness are becoming critical to sustainable leadership Guest:Emma Logan has spent more than 15 years working across marketing and media in New Zealand, London and Australia, spanning client-side, agency, publisher and not-for-profit roles. She’s partnered with numerous leading brands and marketing talent, bringing a rare 360-degree perspective to the challenges facing today’s leaders. Through The Emma Logan Project, she now runs a “marketer-focused consultancy,” helping CMOs and senior marketing leaders define who they are and how to amplify their impact across their teams and the wider industry. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/ Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: ht...

96. Buying Outcomes, Not Deliverables: Rethinking Client-Agency Partnerships w. Blair Enns

45 min

For decades the agency-client relationship has worked on a transactional view of marketing and creative services. Agencies gave away their best thinking upfront, clients judged on surface-level ideas and both sides accepted a process that often undervalued expertise. In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence and renowned author Blair Enns discuss how the future of creative and professional services lies in changing how we buy, sell and trust expertise. Whether you’re in-house or agency-side, these shifts carry big implications for how you choose partners and build lasting relationships that drive marketing success. Key Takeaways:Why traditional pitching often undervalues creative work and what it takes to break free from itHow specialisation is the key to differentiation, growth and global reachWhat three-option proposals and value-based pricing reveal about how expertise should really be soldWhy selling is less about the big presentation and more about a series of meaningful conversationsHow AI is fragmenting the market and empowering smaller, more specialised playersWhat in-house marketers can do to unlock more value from their agency partners. Guest:Blair Enns is the founder of Win Without Pitching, a sales training organisation for creative and professional services firms. He is the author of The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, Pricing Creativity and The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise. Blair is also the co-host of the widely followed 2Bobs podcast. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket...

95. How to Rank in ChatGPT w. Joe Alder

41 min

Ranking in ChatGPT is now one of the most urgent challenges in digital marketing. With millions of Australians using AI search every week, the question for in-house marketers isn’t whether ChatGPT is shaping buyer journeys anymore, it’s how to make sure your brand is visible where and when it matters most.  In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, James Lawrence is joined by Rocket’s Head of SEO, Joe Alder, to unpack the latest research and share practical advice on what it really takes to rank in ChatGPT. Key Takeaways:Why traffic from ChatGPT converts at over 5x the rate of traditional search traffic, and what that means for marketersThe two ways ChatGPT sources information, and how each affects your visibilityThe technical dos and don’ts that determine whether your site can be read by ChatGPTHow to structure copy so it’s more likely to be cited in AI searchThe kinds of content that are consistently favoured in AI responsesWhy authority now means brand mentions, reviews, listicles and awards, not just backlinksThe hard truth about measurement: why click-through rates from ChatGPT are so low, and what you can do to track your traffic from AI search Guest:Joe Alder is the Head of SEO at Rocket Agency, leading all SEO services and projects. With over 8 years of experience, Joe has implemented complex SEO campaigns for B2C, B2B and government organisations, working with notable brands such as Amazon, Qudos, P&O Cruises, PE Nation, Fujitsu and Coates.  Since the launch of ChatGPT, he and his team have been at the frontline of AI search optimisation - running first-hand tests across thousands of queries, analysing data from Australia’s top websites and guiding brands on how to adapt their SEO strategies for an AI-driven future. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency Link...

94. Winning B2B Messaging: How to Build a Perspective That Cuts Through w. Alex James

40 min

As competition heats up across professional services, simply telling people what you do is no longer enough. The difference between winning and blending in ultimately comes down to perspective: how you see the world, not just what you sell. Too often, brands overlook this, falling back on cliche messaging in their industry that leaves buyers unmoved. In this episode, James Lawrence (Co-Founder, Rocket Agency) welcomes back Alex James - one of Australia’s leading messaging strategists - to discuss what it takes to build a B2B messaging perspective that actually cuts through. If you’re leading in-house strategy, this conversation will reshape how you think about differentiation and help you find a standpoint your market won’t forget. Key Takeaways:Why rising competition has made differentiated messaging a necessity in B2B servicesThe distinction between what you do, how you do it and why a strong perspective matters mostThe pitfalls of relying solely on frameworks like “purpose, vision, mission, values,”How to find and own a perspective that cuts through sameness by challenging the status quoPractical ways to involve leadership and non-marketing teams in building messaging that sticksWhy speaking to your audience’s aspirations, not just pain points, attracts better-fit clientsCommon mistakes in B2B messaging to avoid, including the dangers of presenting as a vendor rather than a true expert partnerThe importance of living your perspective consistently across team culture and every client touchpoint Guest:Alex James is a B2B messaging strategist and the founder of Minimalist Marketing Co, a Melbourne-based consultancy that works with B2B service firms across the US and Europe. Drawing on over a decade of experience and a journey that spans multiple marketing roles, viral TikToks and content that’s shaped entire client pipelines, Alex helps firms build standout perspectives that resonate with buyers. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/j...

93. Marketing for Turbulent Times - Kantar and the Australian Marketing Landscape

42 min

Marketing in 2025 is being shaped by what some experts call a 'polycrisis' - disruption layered upon disruption. From global conflicts to inflation to AI-driven job shifts, the market conditions facing both brands and consumers are becoming more complex and unpredictable. For marketers, the challenge isn’t just keeping up; it’s finding ways to cut through the noise and still build for the long term. In this episode of Smarter Marketer, Host James Lawrence (Co-Founder, Rocket Agency) speaks with Dan Robertson-Jones (Partner, Kantar) about the findings from Kantar’s recent report on marketing effectiveness in Australia. They discuss the pressures driving short-term thinking, the impact of brand erosion, why creative quality matters more than most marketers realise and how consumer behaviour is changing as 'sameness' floods the markets. Whether you’re a CMO navigating budget scrutiny or a marketer trying to align brand and performance, this conversation offers a clear-eyed view of where marketing is heading and how to adapt. Key Takeaways:Why Australian marketers are facing mounting pressure to prove short-term ROIThe risks of over-indexing on performance marketingHow consumers are reshaping brand relationships as economies face stress from the polycrisisThe drop in meaningfully different brands over the past decade, and what’s driving itHow the “sea of sameness” in creative is eroding the effectiveness of marketingWhy cultural relevance is key to standing outWhy consistency across touchpoints is harder now, and how measurement systems can bridge short and long-term goalsThe importance of boldness and foresight for growth in a volatile market Read the report here: Marketing Effectiveness Hub Guest:Dan Robertson-Jones is a Partner at Kantar, one of the world’s leading marketing data and analytics companies. With over two decades of experience in strategic marketing research, Dan helps brands navigate disruption and decode shifting consumer behaviour. Find Us Online:Jame...

92. Current vs Future Demand: Why Mental Availability Matters w. Nick Palmer

35 min

Most marketers are pressured to focus their energy on the 5% of buyers ready to purchase today, but what about the 95% who aren’t in market yet? Ignoring them likely means missing your biggest growth opportunity. Building mental availability with future buyers is critical, yet often overlooked in the rush to chase immediate sales. In this episode, James Lawrence (Co-Founder, Rocket Agency) sits down with Nick Palmer (CEO, House of Brand) to unpack what it really means to balance current and future demand. They explore why brand building is still misunderstood, how demand generation works differently in B2B vs B2C, and why many marketers still struggle to make the case for long-term investment internally. Expect insights on how mental availability drives growth, what it takes to win both short-term conversions and tomorrow’s customers, and practical ways to make brand work count in 2025. Whether you’re working with a lean budget or leading a brand with national reach, this conversation will challenge how you think about demand generation. Key Takeaways:Why marketers are pushing back against vanity metrics - and what they’re focusing on insteadHow big brands and small brands should think differently about performance vs brandWhy chasing perfect attribution can lead you in the wrong directionWhat you can measure when it comes to brand - and how to make it countWhat to prioritise when building future demand in B2B vs B2CHow to stay top of mind with buyers long before they’re ready to act Guest:Nick is a brand and communications researcher and strategist, and a recognised specialist in measuring advertising effectiveness, with global experience in agencies ranging from Millward Brown to Hall & Partners. Through his role as CEO at House of Brand, Nick relentlessly pursues breakthrough brand insights for clients.  Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podc...

91. The Secret to B2B Marketing: Owning a Perspective w. Alex James

49 min

B2B service firms have been told to niche down, build helpful content and trust the funnel. But in today’s competitive market, where everyone is applying the same formula, it’s not enough to stand out. When every firm looks and sounds the same, buyers tune out. In this episode, Host James Lawrence, Co-Founder of Rocket Agency, sits down with B2B messaging strategist Alex James to unpack a smarter way forward. You’ll learn why having a clear perspective is more powerful than having the best tips, tactics or templates - and how your point of view can become your biggest differentiator in a crowded market.  We dig into the dangers of short-term metrics, why most B2B content fails to convert and how B2B service firms can win more work without blowing big budgets. This one’s for marketers who are done chasing clicks and ready to build something better. Key Takeaways:Alex’s marketing journey and the story behind his viral post: A Niche is No Longer EnoughWhat it means to have a “perspective” in B2B marketing and why it mattersWhy messaging is not the same as copywriting and why you should know the differenceWhat to focus on when 99% of your audience isn’t ready to buyThe unique marketing challenges faced by B2B service firms compared to B2B SaaS businessesHow professional services firms use perspective to create perceived differentiation - when their offer isn’t obviously uniqueWhy content built around “best practices” often fails to generate demandReal-world examples of perspective-led marketing - including what B2B marketers can learn from Donald Trump’s campaign messaging strategy Guest:Alex James is a B2B messaging strategist and the founder of Minimalist Marketing Co, a Melbourne-based consultancy that works with B2B service firms across the US and Europe. Drawing on over a decade of experience and a journey that spans multiple marketing roles, viral TikToks and content that’s shaped entire client pipelines, Alex helps firms build standout perspectives that resonate...

90. Marketing to Gen Z and Gen Alpha w. Katy Richardson

27 min

What happens when a generation that grew up online starts leading your marketing conversations? Host James Lawrence speaks with Katy Richardson, Global Head of Marketing at student living app Housr, about how Gen Z - and soon Gen Alpha - are rewriting the rules of brand engagement. Key Takeaways:How Gen Z is already influencing both consumer and B2B buying decisions, and what that means for marketersWhy user-generated and employee-generated content is now non-negotiable as part of a social strategyHow to make the most of influencers by giving them creative licenseShort-form videos vs long videos - what wins on social media?How social commerce is changing the way younger audiences discover and buy productsThe role of traditional channels like out-of-home advertising in connecting with digital-first audiencesWhy younger consumers expect brands to take real action on purpose, ethics and sustainabilityHow to meet Gen Z’s demand for fast, responsive and real-time communication Guest:Katy Richardson is the Global Head of Marketing at student living app, Housr. With over 12 years of creative and marketing experience across Australia and the UK, she specialises in connecting brands with young, digitally native audiences. Prior to Housr, Katy led B2C marketing for UniDays and worked agency-side on Gen Z-led campaigns. You can follow Katy on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more...

89. Beyond the Hype: AI’s Real Impact on Australian Marketers in 2025 w. David Lawrence

38 min

We’re halfway through 2025 and AI is the buzzword on everyone's lips. And while it’s changing marketing fast, is the hype legitimate? Host James Lawrence is joined by Rocket Agency’s co-founder, David Lawrence, to unpack what AI adoption actually looks like on the ground, and how Australian marketers can equip themselves for what’s to come - inside agencies, in-house teams and across different marketing roles. Key Takeaways:Reality check: Has AI lived up to the hype - or has it already surpassed it in some areas?Where today’s large language models (like ChatGPT, Gemini and Claude) are genuinely delivering value, and where the hype still outweighs resultsThe shift from AI anxiety to AI empowerment and what that means for marketers’ careersWhat it means to adopt an “AI-first” mindset across different levels of marketing maturityHow voice prompting and tools like Wispr are helping break old habits and unlock better outputWhy your workflow, not the tool, should determine which AI platforms you useA realistic look at AI in recruiting, what employers are really looking for and how to future-proof your roleTips for staying current: trusted newsletters to read and pragmatic influencers to follow Guest:David Lawrence is the MD and Co-Founder of Rocket, an award-winning Australian full-service digital marketing agency. He is also the co-author of the Amazon #1 best-selling marketing book,  Smarter Marketer. David has presented at several events, including Inbound Boston, Search Marketing Summit, Mumbrella360, CEO Institute, and various seminars and in-house sessions. You can follow David on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/...

88. Dr. Robert Cialdini on Persuasion and Influence in Modern Marketing

53 min

What makes people say "yes"? Rocket Agency’s Co-Founder James Lawrence sits down with Dr. Robert Cialdini, the godfather of influence and the world’s foremost authority on the psychology of persuasion, to talk about the timeless principles behind his work, his seventh principle of influence - Unity - and how AI, ethics and empathy are shaping persuasion in modern marketing. Key Takeaways:Origin story: How Dr. Cialdini went “undercover” in multiple industries to discover the universal principles of influenceA walkthrough of the original six principles - Reciprocity, Scarcity, Authority, Consistency, Liking and Social ProofThe 7th principle - Unity: Why bonds formed by shared identity matter todayThe importance of ethics: Why marketers should use persuasion techniques truthfully and responsiblyInfluence vs cultural differences: How different regions (e.g., Australia, Asia, Scandinavia) prioritise different principles of influenceThe rise of AI: How marketers are using AI to apply Cialdini’s principlesThe science of “pre-suasion” and how setting context before your message boosts effectivenessReal-world examples of effective use of influence and persuasion from brands like Avis, L’Oreal and Best Buy Guest:Dr. Robert Cialdini is a globally renowned psychologist and the bestselling author of Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Pre-Suasion, and Yes!. His groundbreaking research on why people say 'yes' has shaped the way professionals across marketing, sales, leadership and behavioral science approach persuasion.  He is often referred to as the godfather of influence, and his principles of influence drive ethical influence strategies today. You can follow Dr. Cialdini on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pt...

87. Is ChatGPT Killing Google? Optimising for LLMs, AIO, and the Truth About AI and SEO in 2025 w. Joe Alder

37 min

With the growth of AI and LLMs like ChatGPT, the question "Is Google dying?" is often being asked. In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Rocket’s Head of SEO, Joe Alder, to cut through the hype and discuss the facts about how AI is impacting SEO and search traffic in 2025. The conversation is backed by Australian-first research from Rocket’s SEO team. Also discussed are the similarities and differences as it relates to SEO and AIO. Whether you're a CMO under pressure to ‘AI everything’ or an in-house marketer navigating new search norms, this is your guide to what’s actually changing and importantly, what is not.  Key Takeaways:The current landscape - a reality check on AI traffic and its actual impact on search behaviourHow Google remains resilient amid AI growthAI Overviews - What they are and who they impact6 practical strategies to rank in LLMs that actually workThe importance of doing good SEOHow to optimise technical SEOWhy high-quality content creation mattersHow to structure for ranking highHow to build brand authorityHow to monitor and adapt to the changing landscapeThe future - How AI and SEO will change in the next 1-5 years Guest:Joe Alder is the Head of SEO at Rocket, where he leads all SEO services and projects. He has over 8 years of experience in implementing complex SEO campaigns and driving tangible results for B2C, B2B and government organisations. Over the course of his career, he has worked for notable brands such as Amazon, Qudos, P&O Cruises, PE Nation, Fujitsu, and Coates, among others. You can follow Joe on LinkedIn. Access our free webinar with AdNews on AI and SEO in 2025. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle...

86. Why Client-Agency Relationships Fail - And How to Fix Them w. Drew McLellan

39 min

In-house marketers and agency leaders don’t always speak the same language - but when they do, the results can be game-changing. In this episode, host James Lawrence sits down with Drew McLellan, CEO of the Agency Management Institute, to unpack what makes agency relationships thrive or fail. Whether you're managing one agency or several, or considering switching partners altogether, this episode is for anyone wanting to bridge the in-house/agency gap. Key Takeaways:The top reason agency-client relationships break down: (communication) and how to fix How in-house marketers can improve agency performance through more transparencyWhy caring (and showing it) really matters to agenciesThe red flags that indicate when it’s time to walk away from your agencyWhy investing in building a true partnership with your agency pays off Guest:Drew McLellan has worked in advertising for 25+ years and started his own agency, McLellan Marketing Group in 1995 after a five-year stint at Y&R. He also owns and runs the Agency Management Institute (AMI), which is a consultancy for small to medium-sized agencies that has been helping agency owners grow their agencies since the early 90s. Drew’s agency was a member of the organization for years before Drew acquired AMI and began to run it full-time. Drew’s often interviewed/quoted in Entrepreneur Magazine, New York Times, CNN, BusinessWeek, and many others. The Wall Street Journal calls him “one of 10 bloggers every entrepreneur should read. You can follow Drew on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Roc...

85. How to Build Desire in Luxury and Property Markets w. Giverny Reid

29 min

People don’t buy luxury for utility. In high-end markets, purchase decisions are driven by emotion, identity and status - not features or price points. For marketers in the high-end space, this changes everything. In this episode of Smarter Marketer, Giverny Reid - Director at creative property marketing firm &Only and former Creative and Marketing Director at Crown Group - breaks down what actually drives demand in premium categories.  Key Takeaways:What sets luxury marketing apart from traditional marketingWhy legacy and brand credibility matter more than everHow to genuinely harness scarcity and FOMO without any tricksWhy real-world experiences still dominate in luxury and property marketingUsing digital, AI and emerging technologies like AR/VR to spark desireWhere most marketers get high-end marketing wrong  Guest:Giverny Reid is the Director of creative property marketing firm &Only, bringing over 15 years of experience in building and positioning premium brands in the luxury space. Previously, she was the Creative and Marketing Director at Crown Group, where she played a key role in shaping one of Australia’s most recognised luxury property brands. Giverny’s work has earned her recognition across the industry, including being named ‘Marketer of the Year’ by realestate.com.au in 2022. She’s also been a finalist in the B&T Under 30 Awards for Design and has led major brand and event campaigns across Australia. You can follow Giverny on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, Jam...

84. State of the Pitch 2025 w. Darren Woolley

44 min

The agency pitch process is one of the most important - yet deeply flawed - aspects of the marketer-agency relationship. In this Smarter Marketer Podcast episode, Host James Lawrence talks about the realities of modern-day pitching with someone who’s been at the coalface for decades: industry veteran Darren Woolley, Founder and CEO of TrinityP3. Darren unpacks the latest State of the Pitch 2025 Report by TrinityP3, revealing why things have actually gotten worse in 2025 - and what both marketers and agencies can do to fix it.  Read the State of the Pitch 2025 Report. Key Takeaways:The most common pitch mistakes made by marketers - and how to avoid themWhy cost-cutting is undermining agency performance and client outcomesThe real-world impact of involving too many agencies in a pitchHow AI and automation are being overpromised in the pitch processEffective ideas to create a more respectful, effective and sustainable approach to pitching Guest:Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management. A Problem Solver, Negotiator, Mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3 - Marketing Management Consultants, Industry Commentator, Podcaster, and Author. He is also a Past-Chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, Past President of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, Ex-Medical Scientist and Ex-Creative Director. You can follow him on Instagram [@_trinityp3_], LinkedIn, or find out more on his website. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in con...

83. Emails with Mailchimp: The Power of First-Party Data, AI, Great Creative and More w. Anthony Capano

34 min

Email marketing might not be the newest toy in the digital toolbox, but it’s still one of the most powerful. In a time when AI is transforming how we work and big platforms are making it harder for businesses to own audience relationships, marketers are turning back to the basics - and doing them better. Host James Lawrence sits down with Anthony Capano, Regional Director at Intuit Mailchimp, to talk about how email is thriving in Australia, how personalisation and AI are changing the game, and what smart brands are doing to get ahead.  Key Takeaways:Why email marketing is far from dead - and what Mailchimp’s intriguing SXSW campaign was really aboutHow Australian brands are achieving some of the world’s highest email open ratesThe resurgence of email in an era of rising media costs, fragmented attention and zero-click searchWhy first-party data is becoming a non-negotiable for marketersThe role of AI in scaling hyper-personalisation without stretching your teamMailchimp’s evolution: from a simple email tool to an integrated platform with SMS, automation, CRM and 300+ tech integrationsHow Aussie brands are using Mailchimp to manage their data, run omnichannel campaigns and boost ROIThe growing importance of creative and consistency across channelsWhat the future holds for marketing teams using Intuit Mailchimp Guest:Anthony Capano is the Regional Director for Australia and New Zealand at Intuit Mailchimp. With over two decades of leadership experience across global ad tech and martech companies, Anthony has launched international brands into APAC, led localised campaigns for names like Woolworths, Telstra and IKEA, and previously served as Managing Director for North America at Rakuten Advertising. Now back in Australia, Anthony is focused on expanding Mailchimp’s local footprint - building out on-the-ground support, growing strategic partnerships and helping marketers unlock the full power of email and first-party data.  You can follow Anthony on LinkedIn. Find...

82. Rethinking Search: Google vs ChatGPT, Attribution, Audiences and the Future w. Rand Fishkin

51 min

Digital isn’t what it used to be and neither is marketing. In this episode of Smarter Marketer, James welcomes back industry legend Rand Fishkin, Co-Founder and CEO of Sparktoro, to cut through the noise as they discuss the flawed logic of traditional attribution models, the pitfalls of over-relying on Google and the importance of audience-first marketing to future-proof your digital strategy. Key Takeaways:Zero-click searches and AI Search tools - Where is traffic going?The AI hype cycle - Why most marketers are chasing the wrong trendsSEO and digital PR strategies - When and why it's vital to invest in PRThe hidden challenges of AI data sources and what they mean for marketersHow to find and engage your ideal customers through audience researchThe evolution of social media - How platforms like Facebook, LinkedIn and TikTok are shiftingPrivacy, data collection and attribution - Why traditional tracking models are failingBrand awareness vs paid advertising - How to strike the right balance Guest:Rand Fishkin is the co-founder and CEO of SparkToro, a leading audience research software company helping brands discover where their target customers engage online. Prior to founding SparkToro, Rand was the co-founder of Moz, where he built one of the most influential SEO communities in the world. He’s also the author of Lost and Founder, a candid look at the startup world and a frequent speaker at global marketing conferences.  You can follow Rand on LinkedIn. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling autho...

81. The Power of Account-Based Marketing w. Paola Piccinno

41 min

Broad-reach campaigns are simply not enough sometimes. Account-Based Marketing (ABM) is emerging as an extremely effective strategy for businesses that are seeking deeper engagement, stronger relationships with their prospective clients and higher-value deals. But what does it really take to run an effective ABM program? Host James Lawrence sits down with seasoned ABM strategist Paola Piccinno to unpack the nuances of this powerful marketing approach. Whether you’re considering ABM for the first time or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with practical advice, real-world examples and actionable takeaways. Key Takeaways:Paola’s journey - from London to Sydney and her global marketing experienceWhat is ABM and how it differs from traditional B2B marketing and demand generationCommon ABM challenges and misconceptions:Lack of ABM maturity in APAC and ANZGetting buy-in between marketing, sales and the leadershipBudget concerns due to the misconception that ABM is expensiveThe challenge of selecting the right accounts (and the right number of accounts)Creative detachment from the goal of the campaignsCase studies of stand-out ABM campaigns: T-Mobile Batman comic book campaign - Using personalisation to secure a meeting with a CEOAuto Telefonica’s remote control truck - Direct mail tailored to an executive’s interestsAdobe’s executive roundtable breakfast - Engaging high-level decision makers without a traditional sales pitch Technology and AI in ABM: opportunities and risksPractical advice for marketers considering ABM Guest:Italian-born, Australia-based Fractional CMO, Paola brings 20+ years of experience leading and executing successful B2B marketing strategies across UK, EMEA and APAC for global brands (from big enterprises, to SMB’s and more recently startups), with a specialisation in strategic Account Based Marketing (ABM). She has helped numerous early-stage as well as established companies achieve significant growth through strategic ABM progr...

80. Marketing Under Pressure: Managing Stress, Sleep and Decision-Making w. Dr. Jemma King

56 min

In marketing, deadlines are relentless and expectations are high. It’s critical to manage stress and make clear-headed decisions under pressure. In this episode of Smarter Marketer, host James Lawrence chats with Dr. Jemma King - founder of BioPsychAnalytics and expert in stress, resilience and high performance.  Having worked with elite organisations like the Australian Olympic Swim Team, the Australian Defence Force, McKinsey and Atlassian, Dr.King shares science-backed insights on managing burnout, improving decision-making and optimising sleep for peak performance. Whether you're leading a team, juggling campaigns, or striving for balance in your personal life, this episode will equip you with practical strategies to navigate the pressures of marketing. Key Takeaways:Dr. Jemma King’s journey - How she became a leading expert in stress research and high-performance psychology.Why marketers are under pressure And the need to manage stress for long-term successScience-backed strategies to reduce stress and prevent burnout – Practical techniques used by elite athletes, military personnel and corporate leaders to stay resilient The role of sleep in peak performance - How sleep quality directly impacts decision-making, creativity and overall health.Actionable tips to improve sleep for better health: How to measure sleep quality and its effects on energy and performance.The hidden impact of alcohol on sleep cycles and cognitive function.Simple ways to eliminate sleep-disrupting distractions.How dim lighting before bedtime signals your brain to relax.The science behind a 40-degree hot bath as a sleep aid.How cutting back on sugar can significantly improve sleep quality. Beyond sleep: The next most powerful factors in resilience - regular exercise, a balanced diet, meaningful relationships, fulfilling work and financial stability.Tactical ways to build a stress-resilient life by structuring your day, improving your work environment and developing a low-stress mindset.Dec...

79. Persuasion, Manipulation and Behavioural Psychology: How Consumer Choice is Shaped w. Dan Monheit

48 min

In marketing, there exists a fine line between influencing decisions and crossing into manipulation. The difference? One builds trust while the other erodes it. Host James Lawrence chats with Dan Monheit, Chief CX Thinker at Thinkerbell and former CEO of creative behavioural science agency HardHat, about applying behavioural science principles like default bias and anchoring to your marketing, related ethical considerations and how to draw the line between persuasion and manipulation. Key Takeaways:Dan’s journey - starting Hardhat and his interest in behavioural scienceIntroduction to behavioural science and it’s connection to marketingWhat are some common behavioural biases you see everyday? -Default bias -Framing -Anchoring -Loss aversion -Effort bias Ethics in persuasion vs manipulationNavigating dark patternsHow context impacts perception and shapes biasesEssential behavioural science resources for marketers Guest:Dan Monheit is a leader in creative behavioural science. In 2005, he founded Hardhat, a pioneering agency that worked with top brands like Mattel, Bega Dairy, the Victorian Government, Kogan, DocuSign and Afterpay. Under his direction, Hardhat became a go-to agency for brands looking to understand and influence consumer behaviour. In October 2024, Hardhat was acquired by Thinkerbell, where Dan now serves as Chief CX Thinker, applying his expertise to elevate customer experiences through a blend of creativity and behavioural insights. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast  Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a...

78. Answering Your Marketing Questions for 2025 w. Joe Alder, Sam Dodson and Mariano Di Lascio

55 min

Rocket Agency’s top experts and Host James Lawrence discuss what will work in digital marketing in 2025 and how to set yourself up for success with the latest on SEO, digital and creative. Key Takeaways:How to navigate AI Overviews and the impact on paid search and SEOWill ChatGPT replace search engines?How to adapt SEO practices to align with AI-driven algorithms in 2025How digital marketing roles will remain relevant as we enter the age of AIHow to improve the impact of digital ad creativeThe relevance of low-fidelity video content in B2B and its potential in 2025Interesting strategies that delivered exceptional results in 2024, and how to advocate for themHow to balance investment between brand-building and performance activitiesHow to maintain creativity across campaigns when constrained by budgets and deadlinesHow often should ad creative be updated to optimise conversions?The most impactful SEO initiative to prioritise in 2025How to structure and optimise content for SGE’s conversational search approachHow Google Ads will evolve in 2025 and whether TikTok is a viable platform for B2BChanges to expect on Meta platforms this year Guests:Joe Alder is an award-winning SEO expert and has driven organic growth for global brands like Amazon, Coca-Cola, ANZ and Dulux through innovative strategies and data-driven insights. With over 20 industry award nominations, Joe is recognised as a leader in the field. You can follow Joe on LinkedIn. Samantha Dodson heads Rocket’s creative wing and brings a wealth of experience, having excelled in both B2B and B2C landscapes for brands including LinkedIn, Adobe, Microsoft and Salesforce, as well as Telstra, WWF, Coca-Cola and KFC. Previously she was the creative lead at BlueMelon and has worked at Ogilvy and DDB. You can follow Sam on LinkedIn. Mariano Di Lascio leads a team of outstanding marketers at Rocket Agency across paid search and paid social channels. Together with the team, he has won some outstanding awards for client c...

From the Archives: How to Build Your Personal Brand as a Marketer w. Fleur Brown

42 min

Building your personal brand as a marketer is crucial for career advancement, establishing credibility, obtaining salary increases and creating professional opportunities. This week, James interviews Fleur Brown, celebrated author of ‘The Business of Being YOU: Personal Brand Secrets of CEOs and Celebrities’. Fleur shares why you should be building your personal brand reputation and practical tips for marketing yourself within a competitive industry. Key Takeaways:The importance of marketing yourself to stand out from the crowdWhat does ‘building your personal brand’ really mean?Picking three elements to curate your personal brandUsing your LinkedIn profile effectively to establish yourself in your company and industryThe value in transparency and being upfront about your intentionsCreating your own short bio and headshot for distributionHow to get speaking opportunities Guest:Fleur Brown is a creative entrepreneur who has helped build the profiles of some of the world's most innovative media, technology and entertainment brands, thought leaders and entrepreneurs. Fleur is passionate about helping individuals establish and grow their personal profile and this website is dedicated to that focus. Formerly, Fleur was the Co-Founder and CEO of award-winning PR Agency, Launch Group, the Founder and Executive Producer of the ENTREPRENEURS TV Show on Sky Business News and a Co-Founder of TEDxSydney - one of the world's largest innovation festivals. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawren...

From the Archives: Career Advice From a Global CMO w. Ryan Bonnici

42 min

Ranked in Forbes World's Most Influential 50 CMOs list, Ryan Bonnici shares career advice marketers should take onboard. Ryan has gone from marketing roles in Australia to global CMO roles for two tech unicorns in the USA. Key Takeaways:What are the benefits of working for a company that is growing quickly?The importance of owning a number/region to develop your careerHow to gain mentorship and advice from your connectionsKnowing your worth as you move through your careerWhen is the right time to move companies?Why it’s actually good to talk to your competition Guest:Ryan Bonnici was awarded 26th place on the World's Most Influential CMOs in 2020 list by Forbes (up from 41st place in 2019) and is currently the CMO of Wellhub (formerly Gympass). Ryan has extensive experience across B2B and B2C marketing and sales development, which has led to a strong understanding of the processes behind the job, refined interpersonal skills and an advanced understanding and track record in achieving strong return-on-marketing-investment and business growth. Find Us Online:James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/  Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/  Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/ Buy Smarter Marketer:Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg  Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm  About the Podcast:This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

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