Mariana van Zeller

The Hidden Third

A Documentary , Society & Culture and True Crime podcast

#13 in Documentary · 🇺🇸 #17 in Documentary · 🇿🇦

About the show

From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. New episodes drop every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. The Hidden Third is a co-production of Muck Media and The Roost Podcast Network.

Newest episodes

Sinaloa Cartel Betrayal: Netflix Director Reveals Fall of El Mayo

Nov 11, 2026 1 hr 57 min

Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Go to http://uncommongoods.com/HIDDENTHIRD to get 15% off your next gift! Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! https://patreon.com/TheHiddenThird How did El Mayo Zambada, the Sinaloa Cartel co-founder who never spent a day in prison, end up on a plane to the U.S., allegedly kidnapped by his own godson? My guest this week is award-winning director Darren Foster, whose new series, THE FALL OF EL MAYO, became Netflix's No. 1 show in the U.S. and Mexico, and Top 10 in 43 countries. Darren also happens to be my husband, which gave me a chance to grill him on his work, and our wild life together. The Fall of El Mayo - For decades, El Mayo was the ghost of the Sinaloa Cartel and, by many accounts, its true leader. While his partner, Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, became a legend through his arrests and prison escapes, El Mayo stayed behind the curtain. Then, on July 25, 2024, he suddenly landed at a small airport in New Mexico on a private plane with El Chapo's son, Joaquín Guzmán López, who was also El Mayo's godson. It was a total surprise and a mystery. Darren has spent the last two years unpacking what happened that day. He knew this Shakespearean saga could be a series when El Mayo's lawyer released a letter in which El Mayo claimed he had been ambushed and kidnapped at a meeting Joaquín invited him to, supposedly to settle a dispute between politicians in Sinaloa. The letter also said Héctor Melesio Cuén, a former mayor of Culiacán, was killed at that same meeting, contradicting the official story that he died at a gas station. To tell the story of a man almost nobody had ever seen, Darren, his co-director Miguel Fernández Flores and producers Zoey Haar, Miguel Ángel Vega and Keegan Hamilton tracked down people who had spent time with El Mayo, including Margarito "Jay" Flores, who moved tons of cocaine for the Sinaloa Cartel and met El Mayo face to face, as well as U.S. law...

He Fought the Sinaloa Cartel for Years. Ketamine Saved Him.

Nov 4, 2026 2 hr 4 min

Go to http://uncommongoods.com/HIDDENTHIRD to get 15% off your next gift! Arizona police chief Matt Thomas spent more than 30 years in law enforcement, from undercover narcotics work to chasing Sinaloa cartel smugglers across the desert. The trauma nearly broke him, and he says ketamine treatment is what saved him. Matt grew up as one of the only white kids in a mostly Mexican neighborhood run by gangs. Many of his friends ended up dead or in prison, and he almost went the same way. Instead he became a cop. His first job was at the county jail, where some of those same friends came in as inmates. He tells Mariana van Zeller about working undercover in narcotics and living in two worlds at once, getting close to drug dealers and then arresting them. He chased backpackers and cars loaded with drugs across the desert, and he watched the drug trade move from weed to meth, heroin and fentanyl. He also talks about the violence and death that came with the job, including losing fellow officers. He admits he was a hard-nosed cop who brought it home to his wife and kids, and he gets into what years of high stress do to cops' minds and bodies. Now he's a big advocate for ketamine treatment and wants other cops to have access to it too. After 31 years with the Pinal County Sheriff's Office, where he rose to second in command, Matt is now police chief of Florence, Arizona. It's a small town that is home to several state and federal prisons. He's also the author of Interceptors: The Untold Fight Against the Mexican Cartels. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Military Sent Her Family Overseas. Then It Wouldn't Let Them Come Home

Oct 28, 2026 1 hr 27 min

Jamie Lenio found out her husband, an active-duty Marine, was having an affair with his direct boss, a one-star Army general. After 16 years of marriage, it was over. Then she found out she was stuck in Germany and couldn't bring her three kids home. The family was only there because of his assignment. But his command told Jamie it couldn't send her and the children back to the United States early without his approval. Lawyers warned her that under the Hague Convention, an international treaty on child custody, a German court could decide that's where her children now lived. If she took them anyway, it could be treated as kidnapping. Her right to stay in the country depended on her husband's military status. If the divorce went through, she feared she'd have 90 days to leave, and her kids would have to stay. Jamie is far from alone. Military spouses going through a military divorce overseas have been getting stuck for decades, but almost no one talks about it. Other spouses in the same situation have described rationing money for groceries and gas, turning to food pantries and going thousands of dollars into debt while custody cases dragged on in foreign courts. So one night Jamie recorded an Instagram video explaining her situation and asking for help. Hundreds of thousands of people watched it. Within days, the acting Secretary of the Navy commented: "You and your family will be home soon." Jamie landed in California just hours before we sat down to record this conversation. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Jamie tells me about the moment she realized she was trapped. How she was asked to testify against her husband while they still lived together, and what it's like when your car, your mailing address and your visa all depend on your spouse. She also tells me about the military spouses, women and men, who reached out to her after the video. One father hasn't seen his son in two years and a mother in Spain has been stranded for five. We talk about the Stra...

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All episodes

Sinaloa Cartel Betrayal: Netflix Director Reveals Fall of El Mayo

Nov 11, 2026 1 hr 57 min

He Fought the Sinaloa Cartel for Years. Ketamine Saved Him.

Nov 4, 2026 2 hr 4 min

The Military Sent Her Family Overseas. Then It Wouldn't Let Them Come Home

Oct 28, 2026 1 hr 27 min

The Hacker Who Tracked Down My Romance Scammer

Oct 23, 2026 1 hr 20 min

He's been hacking since he could type. Now Arman the Cyber is a white hat hacker who hunts down romance scammers. He tracked down the fake Jon Bon Jovi who took almost everything from Leslie Pickett, and my personal favorite, the four-star general "deployed to Syria" who was trying to win my heart. Join The Hidden Third Patreon today for exclusive behind-the-scenes footage from SUPER SCAM ME! https://patreon.com/TheHiddenThird Arman is the hacker featured in my new National Geographic documentary, SUPER SCAM ME. Watch it now on Disney+ and Hulu. Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/browse/entity-3bf2735c-0983-47ea-b927-3ac38c2bf7ef Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/super-scam-me-3bf2735c-0983-47ea-b927-3ac38c2bf7ef I found Arman at DEF CON, the giant hacker conference in Las Vegas, while I was making SUPER SCAM ME. In this conversation, he walks me through how he is tracking down the people behind the fake profiles targeting millions of Americans. Arman also talks about his own story in hacking. By fifth grade he was hacking into his school's mainframe. As a teenager, he got pulled into the infamous Xbox Underground case, an alleged conspiracy that federal investigators said targeted Microsoft and its partners and that the FBI valued at more than $100 million. He tells me why he decided to leave the black hat world behind and use his skills for good. For the full story of his years in the hacking underground, watch our first episode with Arman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AT2Pv-BxCU We talk about AI, and how Arman is now using agentic AI (AI that can carry out tasks on its own, not just answer questions) to hack into companies. He explains the threats AI poses, and what happens when these tools end up in the wrong hands. Arman also breaks down The Com, a network of young crypto scammers and hackers in the US who are causing havoc and stealing millions. And he shares his best tips for protecting yourself from online hacks and scams. For SUPER SCAM ME, I g...

She Thought She Was Dating Jon Bon Jovi. Then He Asked for Money.

Oct 21, 2026 1 hr 31 min

Start your free trial of Perplexity Computer today at https://pplx.ai/hiddenthird and experience the next phase of AI. #ad Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. She thought she was in a relationship with Jon Bon Jovi. For almost a year, Leslie Pickett sent "Jon" almost all her money, until she was on the verge of losing her house to foreclosure. That's when she reached out to me. Leslie's story is featured in my new National Geographic documentary, SUPER SCAM ME. Watch it now on Disney+ and Hulu. Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/browse/entity-3bf2735c-0983-47ea-b927-3ac38c2bf7efdisneyplus Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/movie/super-scam-me-3bf2735c-0983-47ea-b927-3ac38c2bf7ef Leslie has been a Jon Bon Jovi fan since she was a teenager. She had just created a new Instagram profile when she commented on what she thought was a verified JBJ account. Soon she was talking to "him" every day, for months. It wasn't until several months into the relationship that "Jon" asked her for money so she could attend a meet and greet. The requests kept coming, and she kept sending money, until the moment she realized he might be a scammer. Leslie had been caught in a celebrity romance scam, where criminals pretend to be famous people to win a fan's trust and then their money. Leslie is far from alone. One in seven American adults say they've lost money to an online dating or romance scam. In 2025 alone, Americans reported losing nearly $1.5 billion to romance scams, which makes them one of the fastest-growing and most devastating forms of financial crime. When Leslie contacted me, I was in the middle of production on SUPER SCAM ME. With help from Arman the Cyber, a white hat hacker (an ethical hacker who uses his skills to protect people, not exploit them) I met at DEF CON, the giant hacker conference in Las Vegas, we were able to track down her scammer. In this conversation, Leslie and I talk about the shame so many vict...

I Was Set Up by a Cartel. Now I’m Going to Federal Prison

Oct 14, 2026 1 hr 30 min

Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Use code HIDDENTHIRD at http://Monarch.com to get 50% off your first year of Monarch Core! Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! https://patreon.com/TheHiddenThird Nine years after a chance encounter on a flight to Las Vegas, Niki Burke is just two weeks away from reporting to federal prison. Her story begins in 2017, when Niki boarded a flight from Florida to Las Vegas with two friends. A well-dressed man from Indiana sat next to them, and midway through the flight, they struck up a conversation. He offered to buy them drinks, paying with $100 bills, and they kept in touch after landing. Over the course of the trip, he paid for limousine rides, expensive dinners, gambling and extensions to their hotel stay. The friendship continued after Vegas. Eventually, the man told Niki he was starting a home-goods distribution company and offered her the opportunity to help build and run it. The business would source inexpensive products from Mexico and distribute them across the United States. Niki accepted. She moved to South Texas, found a warehouse and began operating the company. The man financed the venture, but most of the business was put in her name. Niki says she spent her days managing operations, solving problems and learning how to run a business. She was proud of what they were building and believed it could become her future. Then, one day, she received a call. A semi-truck registered in her name had been seized at a checkpoint. Inside, authorities found more than 20 kilograms of cocaine worth approximately $1.5 million. Niki says the man and the truck’s driver suddenly stopped responding to her. She later learned that federal agents believed the man had connections to a Mexican cartel. More than a year later, Niki received a text claiming someone had found her friend’s missing purse at a mall. When she arrived to collect it, federal agents were waiting. Niki says...

From College World Series Hero to $32M Ponzi Scheme

Oct 7, 2026 2 hr 16 min

Go to https://meetfabric.com/HIDDENTHIRD and apply today, risk-free He was a College World Series champion, a pro baseball prospect and a relative of Tampa mob boss Santo Trafficante Jr. Then a gambling addiction drove Sam Favata to run a $32 million Ponzi scheme that sent him to federal prison. In 1979, Sam hit .418 for Cal State Fullerton, a national college record that stood for 16 years, and scored the winning run in the school's first College World Series title. The Milwaukee Brewers drafted him. Two years later, in Modesto, an 87 mph fastball hit him in the head. He needed surgery for three brain bleeds, and doctors weren't sure he'd survive, let alone walk or talk again. Nine months later he was back on the same field, and almost 5,000 fans gave him a three-minute standing ovation after his first hit. But Sam was already hiding something. He placed his first bet at 19, at a Las Vegas craps table on a road trip with his Fullerton teammates, and lost everything his father had given him for the weekend. On the drive home, he realized he was more upset about losing at the casino than losing at baseball. He kept that secret for 26 years. Gambling ran in the family. Sam was born in Tampa, and his second cousin was Santo Trafficante Jr., the mob boss who ran Florida and pre-Castro Cuba for the American Mafia. Trafficante was later tied to the CIA's plots to kill Fidel Castro and long rumored to be connected to the JFK assassination, which he denied under oath. Sam's father ran bolita numbers for the organization before he walked away and moved the family to California to give his son a different life. Sam talks about growing up close to that world, and about the secret Trafficante is said to have revealed about Kennedy on his deathbed. After baseball, Sam built a career in mortgages and started a family with his wife, Sandra. He talks about losing their baby son, Joey, and the grief that followed. Through all of it, his gambling kept growing: VIP status at Cae...

Evan Rachel Wood: The Cost of Speaking Out Against Marilyn Manson

Sep 30, 2026 2 hr 23 min

Disclaimer: Marilyn Manson, whose legal name is Brian Warner, has denied Evan Rachel Wood’s allegations. He has previously said that her claims are “horrible distortions of reality” and that his intimate relationships were consensual. In January 2025, Los Angeles County prosecutors announced that no criminal charges would be filed following a four-year investigation, stating that the domestic-violence allegations fell outside the statute of limitations and that they could not prove sexual-assault charges beyond a reasonable doubt. The DA’s office also said it “recognize[s] and applaud[s] the courage and resilience” of the women who came forward, noting that their advocacy helped bring greater awareness to the challenges faced by survivors of domestic abuse and sexual assault. Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/HIDDENTHIRD and use code HIDDENTHIRD and get $150 if you win your first $5 lineup! Evan Rachel Wood has spent much of her life in the public eye, from Practical Magic and Thirteen to her unforgettable role as Dolores in Westworld. But in recent years, Evan has used her platform in a very different way, speaking publicly about the physical and psychological abuse she says she experienced during her relationship with Marilyn Manson. In this episode, Evan shares more about that relationship, including the sexual assault she says she experienced during the filming of Manson’s 2007 Heart-Shaped Glasses music video. She talks about the control and isolation she says she experienced, her use of alcohol and drugs during those years, and what it took to survive and rebuild her life. Manson has denied the allegations. We also go back to the beginning. Evan remembers auditioning for Interview with the Vampire, a role that ultimately went to Kirsten Dunst but helped get her noticed. She talks about moving to Los Angeles with her mother, growing up as a child actor in Hollywood, and appearing in Practical Magic alongside Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman. Then...

He Helped Save Thousands of Abused and Exploited Kids

Sep 23, 2026 2 hr 25 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today: https://patreon.com/TheHiddenThird Try ZipRecruiter for free at http://ZipRecruiter.com/HIDDENTHIRD Jim Cole spent two decades as a Homeland Security Investigations special agent, working child-exploitation cases. Early in his career, he saw a problem. Investigators were focused on the people making, possessing, and distributing child sexual abuse material. But the children in the images often went unidentified. Jim helped change that. In 2010, he founded HSI’s Victim Identification Program from scratch, including the first dedicated Victim Identification Laboratory at HSI’s Cyber Crimes Center. Its purpose was to answer a different question: Who is the child in the image, where are they, and are they still in danger? Sometimes the answer begins with a clue most people would never notice: a window, a label, a piece of furniture, a blanket, something in the background that can lead investigators to a child. The program has helped identify and rescue thousands of children around the world, and it continues to operate today. When Jim began tracking victim identifications at HSI in 2011, the agency rescued 262 child victims that year. The following year, after the program’s methods and technology were put in place, that number rose to more than 1,000. This is not an easy subject for a podcast. But given the scale of this crime, and the people most affected by it, it is an important conversation to watch and share. In 2025, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children’s CyberTipline received 21.3 million reports of suspected online child sexual exploitation. Those reports contained 61.8 million images, videos, and other files. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Jim takes Mariana back to his early years, from his time in the U.S. Army to becoming a patrol officer and then a detective on a Native American reservation in Oregon, investigating everything from narcotics to violent crime. He explains how a series of seem...

The Vigilante Hunting Bullies, Scammers and Predators

Sep 16, 2026 2 hr 28 min

Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/HIDDENTHIRD and use code HIDDENTHIRD and get $150 if you win your first $5 lineup! Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod James McGibney is the man who took down Hunter Moore, the "King of Revenge Porn" behind the notorious site Is Anyone Up. He infiltrated Moore's operation, bought the site out from under him for less than $15,000, and turned it into an anti-bullying platform. That story became the hit Netflix documentary The Most Hated Man on the Internet. But that was more than a decade ago. Today James, a former Marine and cybercrime investigator, is going after something much bigger and much darker. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana Van Zeller sits down with James to talk about his current investigation into two loosely connected online networks called The Com and 764. The Com is a sprawling group of mostly young people, some as young as 15 and 16, who trade stolen data, run crypto scams that have drained hundreds of millions of dollars from ordinary people, swat their enemies, and in some cases prey on underage girls. 764 is the offshoot that has captured the FBI's attention for coercing minors into producing sexual and self-harm content, sometimes pushing them to suicide. James walks Mariana through how he traced these networks from low-level "script kiddies" all the way up to what he calls the head of the snake in Pakistan. Along the way he uncovered a billionaire's son who allegedly trafficked a 16-year-old girl into Miami and beat her on tape, a teenage girl who laughed on a recorded call as her crypto scam victim killed himself, and a group of young men flashing quarter-million-dollar nights at Miami clubs while underage girls walked past bouncers uncarded. The conversation moves through the sextortion crisis pushing American teenagers to suicide before their parents ever find out, why crypto scams have quietly surpassed drug trafficking as the most...

Trapped in Bolivia's Deadliest Prison. Then She Took It Over.

Sep 9, 2026 1 hr 38 min

Use code HIDDENTHIRD at http://Monarch.com to get 50% off your first year of Monarch Core! Sharon Yitzhaki was 20 years old when she was pulled off a plane at a Bolivian airport. Authorities searched her bag, and the second bag she was carrying, which belonged to her boyfriend. Hidden in the false bottom was 10 kilos of cocaine. She had no idea it was there. Her boyfriend had abandoned her days earlier, telling her he'd been deported and asking her to meet him back in Amsterdam, where they both lived. Instead, Sharon was sent to Miraflores, one of the most violent women's prisons in the world. What happened next is one of the wildest true stories I've ever heard on The Hidden Third. Inside Miraflores, Sharon was beaten, electrocuted, and developed a severe cocaine addiction. She got clean by asking to be locked in solitary confinement for a month. She adopted a one-month-old baby born inside the prison. She fell in love with a cartel leader locked up in the men's prison next door, and ended up running the drug trade inside her own prison. She was finally released through a Papal edict from Pope John Paul II, and then had to flee the country to avoid being sent back to prison. In this episode, Sharon opens up about betrayal, hope, addiction, motherhood and love behind bars. As well as what happened to the man who betrayed her and to the woman who brutalized her and countless others inside Miraflores. Her bestselling memoir is now a feature film called 10 Kilos, in theaters now and coming to digital worldwide on September 29, 2026. WATCH 10 KILOS Movie🎬 Find a theater near you 🎧 Bonus content, uncut interviews, and behind-the-scenes on our Patreon: patreon.com/thehiddenthird 👉 Subscribe for more stories from the hidden economies most people never see. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

She Escaped Traffickers, Then Was Kidnapped Again

Sep 2, 2026 2 hr 17 min

https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/HIDDENTHIRD and use code HIDDENTHIRD and get $150 if you win your first $5 lineup! Sex trafficking survivor Lurata Lyon was kidnapped twice. First, at 17, by a trafficking network in Bosnia while fleeing the Yugoslav Wars. Then, after escaping, by Serbian paramilitaries who held her captive for six months. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana van Zeller speaks with Lurata Lyon about surviving war, sex trafficking, human trafficking, kidnapping, captivity, trauma, and the long road to rebuilding a life after violence. Lurata was a teenager when the violence surrounding the breakup of former Yugoslavia forced her to flee her home in Serbia. She made her way to Bosnia, where she was kidnapped by a human trafficking and organ-harvesting network. She escaped. But after returning to her hometown, she was taken a second time by Serbian paramilitary forces. Held in solitary captivity for six months, Lurata survived abuse, torture, and the constant fear that she would not make it out alive. Her father ultimately arranged for her to be smuggled out of the country in the back of a truck. She arrived in the United Kingdom as a political refugee and began rebuilding her life from scratch. Today, Lurata Lyon is the author of Unbroken: Surviving Human Trafficking. She is an international speaker, public-speaking and presentation coach, and human trafficking advocate who uses her experience to raise awareness about sex trafficking, sexual exploitation, survivor recovery, resilience, and life after trauma. Sex trafficking is not rare, and it is not limited to conflict zones. The International Labour Organization estimates that 6.3 million people were living in forced commercial sexual exploitation worldwide in 2021, nearly four out of five of them women and girls. In the United States, the National Human Trafficking Hotline received 50,123 signals in 2021, including calls, texts, online chats, and tips from people seeking help or rep...

Ohtani's Bookie Is Out of Prison — And He's Talking

Aug 26, 2026 2 hr 15 min

Try ZipRecruiter for free at http://ZipRecruiter.com/HIDDENTHIRD Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Matt Bowyer — the illegal bookmaker at the center of the Shohei Ohtani–Ippei Mizuhara betting scandal — is back on The Hidden Third, and this time he's talking from the other side of federal prison. The last time Matt sat down with me, it was 11 days before he self-surrendered to FCI Lompoc. His underground sportsbook had handled more than $1 billion in bets in a single year, taken action from roughly 700 to 1,200 clients (including Shohei Ohtani's former interpreter, who stole nearly $17 million from the Dodgers superstar to cover his losses), and helped trigger one of the biggest gambling scandals in Major League Baseball history. Now he's out, released early after six months, and the story has only gotten stranger. In our conversation, Matt takes me inside Lompoc: how contraband gets in, how the “cars” (prison crews) really run the yard, why a pouch of "carnitas" (shredded pork) is the closest thing to currency, and how he ran a full business from behind bars — concierge service, personal chef, the works. He tells me what he actually believes about what Shohei Ohtani knew — or didn't know — about Ippei Mizuhara's bets. He opens up about how prison changed him, why he thinks Resorts World Las Vegas got off easy with a $10.5 million fine, where he lands on the explosion of legal prediction markets and sports betting apps, and what he's building next now that he's a free man. This is a rare, unfiltered look at how the illegal sports betting world really works, from the bookie known as "bookie to the athletes." TOPICS COVERED • The Shohei Ohtani betting scandal, explained by the bookmaker at the center of it • Ippei Mizuhara and the $17 million embezzled from the Dodgers • Life inside FCI Lompoc federal prison camp • Running a business from behind bars • What Matt believes Shohei Ohtani knew (a...

The Man Governments Send to Negotiate with Terrorists | Tom Gregg

Aug 19, 2026 2 hr 26 min

Hostage negotiator and UN mediator Tom Gregg on Afghanistan, the Taliban, the Haqqani network, and the Bowe Bergdahl prisoner exchange. He has spent more than twenty years in rooms most of us will never see. Tom Gregg is a conflict and hostage mediator — the man governments send when they need to talk to people they officially refuse to communicate with. He was the UN's man in eastern Afghanistan, the most dangerous corner of the country, when a full-blown insurgency against America took hold. In September 2006 a suicide bomber assassinated Governor Hakim Taniwal, the man he worked alongside — a former university professor who'd come home from exile in Australia to try to rebuild his homeland. The next day a second bomber walked into the funeral and blew himself up among the mourners who'd come to bury him. He has mediated in Somalia, Nigeria and the Sahel, negotiated with kidnappers to bring hostages home, and run back channels for the United Nations, the U.S. government and the World Health Organization. When Kabul fell in August 2021, the UN sent him in to open the first face-to-face talks between the United Nations and the Taliban leadership. He almost never gives interviews, because almost none of his work can be discussed. This is one of the very few long conversations he has ever done. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Tom Gregg sits down with me to explain how the invisible business of negotiation actually works. We talk about: The 2014 Bowe Bergdahl exchange: five Guantánamo prisoners for one American soldier, and how a deal that big actually gets done Flying into Kabul days after the Taliban takeover to open the UN's first face-to-face talks with the new regime The Haqqanis: how the family America armed to fight the Soviets became the deadliest enemy the U.S. faced in Afghanistan Washington armed the father. The son now runs the police. How Sirajuddin Haqqani went from a ten-million-dollar FBI bounty to Afghanistan's interior minister The...

Secret Service Interrogator: How He Got Killers to Talk | Brad Beeler

Aug 12, 2026 1 hr 57 min

Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at⁠ https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA⁠ #oneskinpod Brad Beeler is one of the most experienced criminal polygraph examiners in U.S. Secret Service history — a 25-year federal agent who has sat across the table from counterfeiters, child predators, killers, and fraudsters, and gotten a remarkable number of them to tell him the truth. What looks in the movies like pressure, threats, and Reid-technique interrogation is, in his telling, almost the opposite: a science-backed set of trust-building, deception-detection, and interview techniques that he says a parent, a teacher, or a business leader can learn to use just as effectively as a federal agent. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Brad sits down with me to walk through the cases that shaped his career — from a years-long hunt for a master counterfeiter, to child-exploitation investigations, to a homicide confession he still calls the most transformative moment of his life — and to break down what actually gets people who don't want to talk to tell you the truth. We dig into: – Growing up in Union, Missouri, and how a childhood best friend who was deaf became the origin of the way he now thinks about communication.– His path into the Secret Service. – How he became a federal polygraph examiner and ended up conducting more criminal polygraph exams than anyone in Secret Service history.– The real story of how polygraphs work - why people "beat the examiner, not the instrument," how false confessions happen, and where confirmation bias becomes dangerous. – The King of Counterfeit case: the multi-year hunt for a master counterfeiter, and how the suspect's own ego became the interview lever.– His child-exploitation work with local ICAC task forces and homicide detectives — the cases that earned him U.S. Secret Service Special Agent of the Year in 2015. – The homicide confession he describes as "transformative," and how silence, presence, and empathy did what pressure ne...

He Robbed a Casino With a Blow‑Up Doll and a Fake AK‑47

Aug 5, 2026 2 hr 39 min

Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA. Adnan Alisic is the mastermind behind one of the craziest casino heists in American history — a Hollywood‑style armored car robbery that used a fake AK‑47, a blow‑up doll, bear spray, a motorized skateboard, and underground ATVs to try to steal millions from Casino Arizona. What sounds like a parody of Ocean’s 11 was, in reality, a desperate, meticulously planned casino heist built on bravado, improvisation, and a deep belief that he could outsmart a system designed to never lose. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Adnan sits down with me to trace how war, trauma, and gambling addiction led from Yugoslavia’s conflict zones to a multimillion‑dollar casino robbery — and what happened when the plan fell apart. We dig into: – His childhood and adolescence during the war, and how he helped support his family by selling counterfeit cigarettes. – The massacre of women and children he witnessed, how he survived it, and the trauma that followed.– His family’s move to Arizona after the war, adapting to life in America, and building a car business from scratch. – His first time inside a casino, how gambling took hold, and how his addiction spiraled into millions lost and the collapse of his business. – The day he decided he was going to rob Casino Arizona, and the planning that went into pulling off an armored‑car casino heist. – What actually happened on the day of the robbery, how the plan unraveled, and how he was ultimately caught. – His years in federal prison, what changed there, and how he began to confront his addiction and his past. – His work now in gambling‑addiction awareness and recovery — and why he wrote his book Arizona Dream. If you’re interested in true crime, organized crime, casino heist stories, scam psychology, gambling addiction, or how people convince themselves a casino can be beaten, this interview goes far beyond the hea...

Bad Vegan: Scam, Abuse & Netflix Scandal | Sarma Melngailis Speaks Out

Jul 29, 2026 1 hr 52 min

Go to https://meetfabric.com/HIDDENTHIRD and apply today, risk-free Try ZipRecruiter for free at http://ZipRecruiter.com/HIDDENTHIRD Sarma Melngailis was once the queen of New York’s vegan scene — a Wharton‑educated former Wall Street analyst who turned Pure Food and Wine and One Lucky Duck into celebrity hotspots frequented by Alec Baldwin, Woody Harrelson, Gisele Bündchen, Tom Brady, and many more. Then her life collapsed into one of the most infamous restaurant scandals of our time: a controlling partner, psychological abuse, coercive control, missing millions, a fugitive manhunt, Rikers Island, and the Netflix true crime documentary Bad Vegan: Fame. Fraud. Fugitives. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Sarma sits down with me to break down how a serial con man and psychological abuser — a man who first introduced himself to her as “Mr. Fox” — took over her mind and her life. We dig into: How a serial con man/abuser who called himself “Mr. Fox” (Anthony Strangis) slowly took control of her decisions, her finances, and her reality. The elaborate belief system he built around her: promising to make her dog Leon immortal, claiming access to a powerful otherworldly “family,” and turning wire transfers into supposed tests of loyalty. How he used spiritual language and “tests” to coerce her sexually — pressuring her into sex and sexual acts under the guise of bringing light, protection, and transformation into her life. The “meat suit” — how he used his own body and weight gain as yet another test of her devotion, and a tool of psychological control. How the press treated her, including the viral tabloid story that she was caught because “the vegan ordered a pizza” — a headline she says is completely false. Why she believes Bad Vegan unfairly portrayed her story, and what the documentary leaves out. How scammers and psychological abusers gain power over smart, empathetic people — and why intelligence alone isn’t a shield against coercive control....

How an LAPD Captain Solved a 30-Year-Old Cold Case Murder

Jul 8, 2026 2 hr 7 min

Nearly 30 years after 15‑year‑old Danielle “Danni” Houchins was murdered in Montana, former LAPD captain Tom Elfmont helped finally bring her family answers. Drawing on more than 25 years running gang and narcotics operations in South Los Angeles, Tom has turned his skills to cold cases and long‑forgotten victims. In this episode, he takes us inside policing during some of the most volatile moments in modern U.S. history — from Vietnam and the protest years in Berkeley to the 1992 Los Angeles riots and the notorious 39th and Dalton drug raid that put his LAPD career on trial. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wallo267 spent 20 years in Prison for Armed Robbery. Now He's YouTube’s Cultural Advisor.

Jul 1, 2026 1 hr 2 min

In this episode of The Hidden Third, we sit down with Wallo267 to unpack a story that starts in the harshest possible place: prison. Wallo caught his first conviction at just 10 years old. By 17, he was sentenced to adult prison, where he would spend the next 20 years locked away. Sometimes in the same facility as his own brother and stepfather. Instead of letting prison break him, he turned it into a classroom. Inside, Wallo started paying attention. He interviewed every newly arrived inmate about the outside world. Music, technology, culture, slang — tracking how everything was changing while he was gone. He filled notebooks, studied human behavior, and built a philosophy around one idea: your circumstances don’t get to decide your outcome. You do. Then everything changed. Wallo got hold of a contraband phone and began posting raw, unfiltered content from inside prison, building an audience before he ever walked out. By the time he stepped back into society, he already had a following and a blueprint for his new life. Today, Wallo267 is a Cultural Advisor at YouTube, co-host of Million Dollaz Worth of Game — one of the most influential cultural podcasts in the country — and a New York Times bestselling author whose books like Armed with Good Intentions and Yes to You, No to Them have inspired millions. This conversation dives into incarceration, transformation, cultural influence, and the mindset required to rewrite your story when the system expects you to fail. If you’re drawn to true crime, prison stories, personal transformation, or high-stakes comeback narratives, this episode is for you. Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The World’s Best Bounty Hunter: How Michelle Gomez Finds People Who Vanish

Jun 24, 2026 1 hr 8 min

How do you find people who do not want to be found? In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with skip tracer and private investigator Michelle Gomez – described by Wired as “the world’s best bounty hunter” – to unpack how she tracks down people who have disappeared on purpose, from the fugitive Ryan Eugene Mullen to a fake “Prince of Dubai.” At 4'11" and just over 100 pounds, Michelle doesn’t look like the person you’d send after fugitives, stolen heavy equipment, or missing yachts – and that’s exactly why she’s so good at it. She leans into her unassuming appearance and uses quirky disguises, from Girl Scout getups to sex‑worker personas, wigs, and glasses, to get close to people who do not want to talk. Michelle grew up in Texas, the daughter of two IBM engineers, and her parents made her build a computer from scratch and solder her own motherboard before she was a teenager. That early crash course in how systems fit together became the blueprint for her career: today she applies the same mindset to people, combing through digital traces, financial records, and tiny “location blips” to build a profile and find the one thread that gives a target away. Over more than two decades, she’s hunted down fugitives, scammers, debt‑dodgers, and high‑risk skips that collection agencies, other investigators, and even law enforcement have failed to locate. In this conversation, she breaks down her use of open‑source intelligence (OSINT), social engineering, and psychological profiling – and what her biggest cases reveal about privacy, ghosting, and the fantasy of truly disappearing. If you’re into investigative journalism, true crime, OSINT, or the hidden world of skip tracing and bounty hunting, this episode is for you. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

America’s Last Weed Prisoner

Jun 17, 2026 2 hr 47 min

This past January, America’s so‑called “last cannabis prisoner” walked out of federal custody after serving years on a marijuana trafficking conspiracy between California and the East Coast. At 24, he was running a multi‑million‑dollar weed pipeline from Northern California to Maryland, using tractor‑trailers, private planes, and even FedEx franchises as part of the cannabis supply chain. Before he was ever arrested, he realized a federal case was coming, contacted a lawyer known for representing El Chapo, and then disappeared into Central America as a fugitive. In this episode of The Hidden Third, we go inside his full story as a federal cannabis defendant in a “legal weed” America: how his operation actually worked, what happened to the millions he made, and how, once he was back in the system, he says he was scammed by a lawyer he trusted. We talk about: How a kid who’d been homeless as a teen in suburban Maryland built a national cannabis logistics network The nuts and bolts of the operation: Northern California grow, East Coast demand, trucks and FedEx franchises in between Why he fled to Central America under another identity — and what finally made him come back and face the federal indictment What happened to the money and why the millions he made didn’t translate into a soft landing How he says he was scammed by his own lawyer Life inside pretrial custody and prison, “diesel therapy,” and what it means to try to rebuild while still on probation If you’re interested in the war on drugs, federal marijuana cases, or how large‑scale cannabis trafficking really works behind the headlines, this episode pulls back the curtain in a way you rarely hear from someone who’s just come home. Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

She Was the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki. Then She Became a PTA Mom in New Jersey.

Jun 10, 2026 1 hr 29 min

Nikki Mammano arrived in Hawaii as a college student and, within months, was running crystal meth in Waikiki. She became known as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki — until it all came crashing down. Today, she’s a PTA mom in New Jersey and the author of Breaking Good, a brutally honest memoir about addiction, trauma, and the long road to healing. In this episode of The Hidden Third, we trace Nikki’s journey from an abused child and teenage addict to a meth dealer in Hawaii’s underworld, and eventually to a sober life built on therapy, accountability, and telling the truth about her past. She talks candidly about prison, homelessness, sex work, parenting with a criminal record, and what recovery really looks like years after the last high. In this conversation, we cover: Childhood abuse and the early wounds that shaped her Her teenage struggle with addiction How a college move to Hawaii spiraled into full‑time meth dealing Life as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki and the rules of that underworld Violence, paranoia, and the moment everything collapsed Prison, shame, and confronting buried trauma Homelessness, sex work, and the cost of survival Parenting, PTA meetings, and living honestly with your past The role of therapy in long‑term recovery Why she wrote Breaking Good and what she hopes readers take from it If you or someone close to you is dealing with addiction, Nikki’s story is not a neat redemption arc — it’s a raw, hopeful map of relapse, repair, and the possibility of starting over. Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lee Harris Claims to Channel Aliens. Why Do Millions Believe Him?

Jun 3, 2026 2 hr 8 min

On this episode of The Hidden Third, I interview Lee Harris — a channeler who claims to communicate with 88 intergalactic beings known as “The Z’s.” He reaches over 2 million people each month and leads a global spiritual community built around his teachings on consciousness, aliens, and the future of humanity. I’m a journalist, trained to look for evidence — not claims about non-human intelligence. But given Lee’s growing influence, I wanted to understand what’s behind it. For this conversation, I kept an open mind. What followed was one of the most unusual interviews I’ve conducted. During our conversation, Lee entered a channeling state and began speaking as the Z’s — allowing me to ask questions directly. He also gave me a personal spiritual reading in real time. We discuss: Who the Z’s are and what they claim Lee’s journey from musician to globally known channeler What these beings say about the future of humanity UFOs, UAPs, and recent government disclosures What it feels like to channel non-human intelligence A live channeling session during the interview A personal reading done on me Whether you’re skeptical or curious, this episode explores one of the fastest-growing and most controversial movements in modern spirituality. Upgrade your wallet today! Get up to 40% off @Ridge during their Father’s Day Sale when you go to https://www.Ridge.com/MARIANA #Ridgepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

He Was a Violent Neo-Nazi Leader. Then He Found Out He Is Jewish.

May 27, 2026 2 hr 25 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Frank Meeink's life runs parallel in many ways to one of the most powerful films ever made about hate in America — American History X. Except his story is real. By 16 he was one of the most notorious skinhead gang leaders on the East Coast. By 17 he had his own cable TV show preaching white supremacy. By 18 he was doing hard time in an Illinois prison for kidnapping and beating a teenager. In prison, a friendship with a Black inmate put the first cracks in his beliefs. After his release, a Jewish furniture dealer hired him — swastika tattoo and all — and treated him with more dignity than anyone ever had. Then the Oklahoma City bombing pushed him the rest of the way. He walked into the FBI and told them everything. But the biggest twist came later. A DNA test revealed he had Jewish ancestry. The man who once believed Jews were the root of all evil now keeps kosher and studies Torah. In this episode, Mariana sits down with Frank to talk about his time in the neo-Nazi movement, his deradicalization work, his memoir Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead, and his life today — including his marriage to Allison Mack, the Smallville actress who served time for her role in the NXIVM sex cult. Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Prophet or Predator: How He Tricked Her and Trafficked Her Mother

May 20, 2026 1 hr 6 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthirdLola Blanc was 12 when a man at an LDS (Mormon) singles dance told her mother he was a prophet receiving direct revelation from God. No compound, no mass following — just a one-on-one system of control that separated Lola from her mom and escalated into coercion and trafficking, all framed as God's will. Lola's mother, Christine Marie, just starred in Netflix's Trust Me: The False Prophet — but this story never made the headlines, and the man was never fully stopped. Today Lola is a cult survivor, musician, filmmaker, actor (American Horror Story, Under the Silver Lake), and co-host of the Trust Me podcast, where she and Meagan Elizabeth dismantle the mechanics of coercion. In this episode, she tells Mariana van Zeller the full story. Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at⁠ http://timeline.com/MARIANA⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mariana's Interview on The Jordan Harbinger Show

May 15, 2026 1 hr 42 min

Special episode drop! We're excited to share an interview with Mariana on The Jordan Harbinger Show. Mariana talks about her long-running show, Trafficked with Mariana van Zeller, her experiences in the field, and what she's taking on now. We hope you enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“The Hangover” Producer Who Walked Away From Hollywood to Fix America's Prison System

May 13, 2026 50 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Scott Budnick produced some of the biggest films in Hollywood — Old School, The Hangover, War Dogs. Then he visited a juvenile detention center in Los Angeles, and it changed the trajectory of his life. He walked away from Hollywood and started going into juvenile detention centers every week — teaching, listening, showing up for kids the system had written off. That was 22 years ago. He still goes every week. Along the way, he built the Anti-Recidivism Coalition (ARC) — a name suggested by Robert Downey Jr. — fought for sentences to be overturned, and watched people walk out of prison and build lives nobody thought were possible. And then he came back to Hollywood — this time to make films with real social impact, including Just Mercy, starring Michael B. Jordan. In this conversation, Mariana and Scott talk (a little bit) about Hollywood, but mostly about America's broken criminal justice system, why it fails the people it was supposed to correct, and what real change actually requires. Plus: the story of a man in solitary confinement for decades — Scott slipped his pinky through the cell bars to reach him, the first human contact this man had had in over 30 years. Today, because of policy reform Scott fought for, he is free and working with the homeless population. CODES: Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show!Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Meagan Elizabeth: Raised in a Cult Hiding 900 Abusers

May 6, 2026 1 hr 30 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Watch on Spotify. If you’re subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don’t get any Spotify ads on my video. With a limited-time offer, get Huel today with an exclusive offer of 15% off online with the code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/mariana. New customers only. Meagan Elizabeth was born into the Two-by-Twos — one of the most secretive cults in the world. No name, no building, no written doctrine. Just families meeting in homes across 30 countries, convinced they were the only people on earth going to heaven. Fourth generation. She didn't choose it. For over a century the group sheltered at least 900 documented abusers before survivors spoke out and the FBI opened a global investigation in 2024. In this episode, Mariana sits down with Meagan to talk about what life inside really looked like, how she escaped, and what it takes to rebuild an identity after leaving a cult. Meagan is a cult survivor, comedian, and co-host of the cult podcast Trust Me. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Amanda Knox Imprisoned In Italy: The Real Story

Apr 29, 2026 2 hr 8 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at http://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Amanda Knox was 20 years old when she went to Italy for a study abroad year. Weeks later, her roommate Meredith Kercher was murdered — and Amanda became the story. She was wrongfully convicted, sentenced to 26 years, and imprisoned for four years while the global media treated her guilt as a foregone conclusion. After one of the most high-profile exonerations in modern legal history, Amanda Knox is now a New York Times bestselling author, journalist, criminal justice reform advocate, and host of the wrongful conviction podcast Hard Knox. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana van Zeller gets the real story — false confessions, media trials, the psychology of innocence, and what it actually takes to reclaim your life when the whole world got it wrong. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The American Captive Inside Venezuela's Deadliest Prison

Apr 22, 2026 2 hr 3 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video. Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at http://square.com/go/hiddenthird! #squarepod James Luckey-Lange had one country left to visit in the continental Americas: Venezuela. He'd survived Haiti, Nicaragua, a husky he buried in Patagonia, and the loss of both his parents — including his mother, the late Q Lazzarus, the singer behind "Goodbye Horses" from The Silence of the Lambs. He crossed into Venezuela on the back of a motorcycle taxi from Brazil on December 7th. He was detained the next day. What followed was more than a month of beatings, starvation, a sham trial, and solitary confinement in Rodeo I — one of the most notorious prisons in the world — where he scraped the alphabet onto a wall to teach his cellmate to read, and carved the names of fellow prisoners into a bar of soap he smuggled out in his underwear. His release came only after the U.S. military captured Maduro — news he learned six days late, through prison whispers and an unexpected serving of chocolate cake. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana van Zeller sits down with James to hear the full story — and find out what he's doing with that soap. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Shaka Senghor: 19 Years for Murder

Apr 15, 2026 2 hr 8 min

Join The Hidden Third Patreon! https://patreon.com/TheHiddenThird Shaka Senghor went to prison for murder at 19 and spent seven of his 19 years in solitary confinement. But his imprisonment started long before that. Today, Mariana sits down with Shaka and has an intimate conversation about life’s hidden prisons, the moment in solitary confinement that changed his life, and the work he is passionate about now - speaking to young kids who grew up like him. Oprah Winfrey called her conversation with him one of the best conversations of her life. I understand why. Judge for yourself. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chosen by Aliens: The Kidnapping of Jan Broberg

Apr 8, 2026 2 hr 8 min

Jan Broberg was kidnapped at 12 by a family friend who convinced her it was an alien mission. Then kidnapped again at 14. Her story — the basis for Netflix's Abducted in Plain Sight — is one of the most shocking grooming cases ever documented. Today she tells it in her own words, and breaks down the predator tactics that are still happening — from family friends to online platforms like Roblox. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NYC Drug Kingpin Turned Weed CEO

Apr 1, 2026 1 hr 44 min

This week on The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Coss Marte — a former drug dealer who, at 17, was running what he claims was New York City's first 24/7 drug delivery business, pulling in over $2 million. A betrayal within his own team brought it all crashing down, and he was suddenly facing up to 25 years in prison. Behind bars, a doctor told him he wouldn't survive to 30. What happened next changed everything. Coss lost 70 pounds, built a workout program with fellow inmates, and wrote the business plan for ConBody — a gym empire built on second chances. Then came the ultimate full-circle moment: he's back to selling drugs — this time legally. His cannabis dispensary ConBud now operates multiple locations across NYC, including one on the very corner of the Lower East Side where he once dealt illegally. From drug kingpin to CEO, this is one of the most remarkable reinvention stories you'll ever hear. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Prison Cell to Rocket Scientist

Mar 25, 2026 1 hr 25 min

Marta Barreto survived years of sexual abuse, addiction, exploitation, and prison. She became a mother, got sober, went back to school, and eventually landed her childhood dream — working on rocket propulsion at Virgin Orbit. In this episode, Marta talks about the psychological grip of trauma and exploitation, the barriers that keep so many victims trapped, and what it really takes to rebuild a life from zero. One of the most powerful survival stories we've ever told on The Hidden Third. Head to http://factormeals.com/hiddenthird50off and use code hiddenthird50off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Undercover Cop

Mar 18, 2026 1 hr 44 min

Britt Elmore, former undercover narcotics detective, spent years embedded inside the operations most people only see in crime dramas — building cases against dealers, managing informants, and navigating the moral gray zones that define modern drug enforcement. In this episode, he pulls back the curtain on how undercover operations really work: the mechanics of infiltrating criminal networks, the fragile trust between officers and informants, and how drugs move from international suppliers all the way down to local street corners. He traces the full supply chain of the underground drug economy — and explains why it continues to evolve faster than law enforcement can keep up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Felon at 7, Reborn in Solitary

Mar 11, 2026 1 hr 43 min

Sonny Von Cleveland survived years of childhood sexual abuse, 18 years in prison, and 19 months in solitary confinement. But it was in that isolation cell where everything changed — through daily conversations with a Muslim mentor in the cell across from his, Sonny found accountability, forgiveness, and a reason to live differently. Today he mentors at-risk youth in juvenile detention centers across Southern California, serves on Riverside County's Juvenile Justice Coordinating Council, advocates with the Anti-Recidivism Coalition in Los Angeles, and leads The Von Cleveland Foundation. He was named Palm Springs Person of the Year in 2023 and has received Congressional Recognition for his work. His memoir Hey White Boy: Conversations of Redemption is the raw, unfiltered story of how a child failed by the world around him found his way back — and decided to make sure others don't walk the same road. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes every week THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Game Warden vs The Cartel

Mar 4, 2026 2 hr 2 min

Between 4,000 and 6,000 cartel trespass growers take to the woods of California every year. They arrive armed, they stay for months, and they are ready to defend their cash crop at any cost. They divert waterways, deploy pesticides and fertilizers so toxic they were banned by the EPA over a decade ago, and leave behind environmental disasters that may take generations to repair. And they do all of this not in some remote foreign country — but in America's own backyard, sometimes within miles of population centers. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Nores to pull back the curtain on this largely invisible conflict — one that sits squarely at the intersection of drug trafficking, environmental destruction, cartel violence, and wilderness law enforcement. Nores walks Mariana through the dangerous operations his team ran deep in the backcountry, the shootouts they survived, and the environmental toll of an illegal industry that generates billions in black market revenue every year. He also explains why marijuana legalization did nothing to stop the cartels — and why the black market is still booming. If you've ever hiked a California trail, camped in a national forest, or followed the war on drugs, this conversation will change the way you see both. 🎙️ From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-thi...

The Woman Who Took On Amazon

Feb 25, 2026 1 hr 42 min

Go to http://factormeals.com/hiddenthird50off and use code hiddenthird50off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. What happens when one of the most powerful corporations in the world – Amazon – decides your family is a threat? Amy Nelson, attorney, mother of four, and founder of The Riveter, found out the hard way: frozen bank accounts, FBI raids, federal subpoenas, and the full weight of the Department of Justice deployed against her family without a single charge being filed. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Amy sits down with Mariana to break down exactly how a company so powerful that it could weaponize the federal government against a single family used civil asset forfeiture and its relationship with federal law enforcement to try to force a guilty plea from an innocent man — and how her family refused to break. This is a David vs Goliath story that reveals who actually controls the machinery of American justice. It's about what it costs — financially, emotionally, and personally — to stand up to a trillion-dollar company. And it's about what it means to win when the system is stacked against you. If you've ever wondered whether ordinary people can fight back against extraordinary power, Amy Nelson is your answer. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BB...

Ex Neo-Nazi | The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Feb 18, 2026 1 hr 28 min

Go to http://expressvpn.com/hiddenthird to secure your online data and get up to four extra months. At 14, Christian Picciolini was a lonely kid from an Italian immigrant family in Chicago when he was recruited into the Chicago Area Skinheads — one of America's first neo-Nazi skinhead groups. By 16, he was leading it. He fronted white power punk bands, helped merge his group with the violent Hammerskin Nation, opened a record store selling hate music, and toured Europe playing to thousands. For years, he recruited young men into a movement built on violence and fear. Then something broke. In 1996, he walked away. Today, Christian is one of the most important voices in the fight against extremism. He's the author of “White American Youth” and “Breaking Hate”, and has spent decades helping people leave hate groups — doing the painstaking, one-on-one work of deradicalization. In this episode of THE HIDDEN THIRD, Christian joins me to unpack how radicalization actually works: the loneliness, the emotional hooks, the sense of belonging, the slow normalization of hate — and the personal unraveling that comes when your entire identity is built around an ideology designed to destroy. We talk about what pulled him in, what finally pushed him out, what extremism looks like today — and why, in the right conditions, almost anyone can be recruited into something they never imagined. Subscribe for more conversations from the underworld. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQ...

From The Kink Machine: The Secret Power Behind Porn

Feb 13, 2026 33 min

On The Hidden Third, we explore the underground worlds and shadowy figures that drive much of the global economy—so today I’m excited to share an excerpt from a new audiobook about one of our culture’s most taboo, most-watched, and least-understood industries: porn. It’s the most watched business in the world. And the least understood. Streamed by millions every day, porn is everywhere. It shapes our culture, our relationships, and even technology. Yet, nobody seems to know who really controls the business. The power brokers tend to lurk in the shadows, while their performers remain quite literally exposed. In the new audiobook The Kink Machine: The Hidden Business of Adult Entertainment, from Pushkin Industries and the Financial Times, Financial Times journalists Patricia Nilsson and Alex Barker start digging into the porn industry and following where the money flows. Their reporting uncovers a shadowy power structure that includes billionaires, tech geniuses, and the most powerful finance companies in the world. A gripping exposé of how power operates behind the most taboo corner of the internet, Nilsson and Barker unravel a story about control, influence, and an industry with staggering cultural reach that no one really wants to talk about—until now. Here’s a preview of The Kink Machine. If you like what you hear, get The Kink Machine on Audible, Spotify, Pushkin.fm, or wherever you get audiobooks. https://bio.to/KMHidden Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Hipster Grifter | The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Feb 11, 2026 2 hr 9 min

Go to http://selectquote.com/mariana to save more than 50% on term life insurance. Kari Ferrell became known as “The Hipster Grifter” after her cons went viral. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Kari joins me to talk about how her scams worked — from bad checks to stealing from friends and lying about being a cancer survivor — and how things escalated after she moved from Salt Lake City to New York City, where she landed a job at VICE. We dig into what was driving her at the time, how easy it can be to manipulate trust, and what it’s like to become a public villain on the early internet. Kari walks us through the consequences, the fallout, and what accountability and rebuilding look like when your name becomes synonymous with a grift. Subscribe for more conversations from the underworld. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Retired ICE Agent | The Hidden Third with Mariana van Zeller

Feb 4, 2026 2 hr 15 min

Eric Balliet spent 25 years with the Department of Homeland Security - first with the CBP and then with ICE - arresting dozens of human traffickers, smugglers, and child predators. He led the wiretap strategy that resulted in the arrest of Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzmán—not once, but twice—and was named Federal Law Enforcement Association's Agent of the Year. In this episode, we dive deep into: - His time as a border patrol agent - His investigation into violent militia groups operating on the U.S.- Mexico border - The wiretap operations targeting the Sinaloa Cartel that led to El Chapo's arrest – twice - What it's really like hunting the world's most dangerous criminals - His warnings about Trump's immigration raids and excessive use of force by ICE - Why a massive ICE hiring surge has put untrained and unqualified agents on America's streets - How resources are being diverted from real homeland security threats - Why he decided to speak out and how that has impacted his life This is a rare inside look at federal law enforcement from someone who isn't afraid to tell the truth about what's gone wrong. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn...

Journalist Jacob Soboroff on Family Separation, ICE Raids, and the LA Fires

Jan 28, 2026 1 hr 35 min

Go to http://selectquote.com/mariana to save more than 50% on term life insurance. Go to http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird to reach your financial goals faster. In this episode, I sit down with MS NOW correspondent and bestselling author Jacob Soboroff for a candid conversation about what it takes to report on the stories that shape our country, and the personal cost that comes with it. Jacob shares why he became a journalist, the biggest lessons he's learned in the field, the toll his work has had on his family, and even some secrets he's never divulged publicly. We talk about his groundbreaking reporting on the Trump administration's family separation policy – what he saw firsthand inside migrant child detention facilities and what went into writing his book Separated. Jacob reveals what has stayed with him long after the headlines moved on, and warns that families are being separated at an even bigger scale during the current immigration raids. Then we dive into his latest bestseller Firestorm, his firsthand account of the devastating January 2025 Los Angeles wildfires. Jacob reported live as his childhood home in the Pacific Palisades burned to the ground. He describes these fires as "the fire of the future" – not an isolated tragedy but a harbinger of America's new age of disaster driven by climate change, failing infrastructure, and political dysfunction. If you care about journalism, immigration, climate disasters, and the human stories behind the headlines, this conversation goes deep. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HID...

Xbox Underground Hacker

Jan 21, 2026 1 hr 46 min

In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Arman, an underground hacker involved in the infamous Xbox Underground case -- an alleged conspiracy federal investigators said targeted Microsoft and its partners and was valued by the FBI at more than $100 million. Arman says he’s been hacking since he could type. Diagnosed with ADD, he found an early obsession and talent in computer programming, spending months in grade school learning how to break into systems most people didn’t even know existed. What started as a game quickly escalated: by fifth grade, he was hacking into his school’s mainframe, and soon after he claims he’d built a sprawling network of bots, giving him the power to control and monetize massive amounts of computing resources. As a teenager, Arman describes earning tens of thousands of dollars, funding his own operation, and even consulting at 14 or 15 years old. But the underground doesn’t just come with money and status. It comes with consequences. He recounts being swatted three times as a teen by rivals and enemies targeting him, and how the paranoia and cat-and-mouse dynamics of that world can follow you long after the hacks stop. (Yes, he even admits to doing things like cutting a teacher’s internet when he didn’t want to turn in homework.) Arman also tells Mariana about cooperating with the government as an informant, and what it’s like to move from “black hat” life into ethical hacking. This interview is for reporting and education. We do not encourage or provide instructions for hacking. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound wa...

USC Athlete Turned Cocaine Kingpin

Jan 14, 2026 1 hr 39 min

This week on The Hidden Third, I sit down with Owen Hanson, known as “O-Dog” — a former USC athlete whose hunger to win at all costs spiraled into a criminal operation spanning sports betting, drug trafficking, and money laundering. Hanson’s story was recently featured in Mark Wahlberg’s docu-series Cocaine Quarterback. But this conversation goes deeper than the headlines. He tells me how it started with his own performance-enhancing drug use — and how, in his early twenties, it escalated into a high-stakes enterprise with international routes and ties to a major Mexican cartel. For a while, the operation felt untouchable. He lived in luxury, operated at the highest stakes, and wielded real power — until it all came crashing down. I wanted to understand how a decorated student-athlete became a drug kingpin, and what it’s like to rebuild after losing everything. In one of the most intense conversations I’ve had on the show, Hanson opens up about his upbringing, the illegal enterprise he built, his trips into Mexico’s cartel territory, life inside federal prison, and what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube Instagram Apple Podcasts Spotify MARIANA: TikTok Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Anna Delvey

Jan 7, 2026 1 hr 28 min

Go to http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird to reach your financial goals faster. This week on The Hidden Third, I speak to Anna Sorokin, better known as “Anna Delvey”, the infamous “fake heiress” whose real-life story was later dramatized in Netflix’s “Inventing Anna”. Anna posed as a wealthy German socialite, worked her way into New York’s elite circles, and used deception and manipulation to get banks, luxury hotels, and even friends to bankroll her lifestyle – a modern case study in scams, grifting, and image. She was convicted of theft of services and grand larceny and served time in prison, becoming one of the most recognizable names in high-society con artistry. Today, her notoriety has morphed into a new kind of power: Anna has become an influencer with a massive social media following, taking on paid promotional partnerships and selling some of the illustrations she made in prison for tens of thousands of dollars. I wanted to understand who she is - behind the con artist. But Anna rarely opens up about her past and often comes across as unrepentant and dismissive about the harm she caused. That guardedness made this one of the hardest interviews I’ve ever done. There were several moments I thought she would walk out. But in the end, through a game of cat-and-mouse, she shares some of her past thinking and strategies for conning people, what life was like in prison, the friends she made there, the marriage proposals she received, and her plans for what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. The Hidden Third Show Sponsors G...

Embezzler Turned Prison Entrepreneur

Dec 17, 2025 2 hr 11 min

Justin Paperny is a former stockbroker turned convicted felon. In this episode, he takes Mariana from the schemes that landed him in federal prison to how he now coaches white-collar criminals on surviving incarceration and rebuilding their lives. #38b54e70-3445-11f1-81fc-5777b6f0ba3e #423667 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Father vs. Child Predators

Dec 10, 2025 1 hr 30 min

Todd Thomas’s daughter was 12 when he discovered she was being groomed by a child predator. What he did next changed the course of his life. Mariana talks to Todd about the moment he found out, the choices he made, the failures that let this happen, and how he’s turned pain into purpose. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jeffrey Epstein Survivor

Dec 3, 2025 1 hr 40 min

Go to http://expressvpn.com/hiddenthird to find out how you can get up to four extra months. At 21, Lisa Phillips was assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein, an ordeal that marked the start of years of grooming and manipulation. In this conversation with Mariana, she opens up about the trauma she endured, the system that enabled it, and her ongoing fight for justice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Russian Sex Spy

Nov 19, 2025 1 hr 52 min

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. Aliia Roza says she was trained by Russian intelligence in “sexpionage” and later defected after falling in love with one of her targets. She shares her straight-out-of-Hollywood story with Mariana. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Podcast details

Created by: Mariana van Zeller
Status: Active
Latest episode: Nov 11, 2026
Episodes: 57
Release period: Weekly
Avg. episode length: 1 hr 46 min
Explicit: No
Language: English

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