Lucia van den Brink

The Initial

About the show

What does it take to build a healthy in-house experimentation program? Find out in these candid conversations with the leaders running 100 - 500+ A/B tests a year at Vinted, Preply & Diary of a CEO, and more. Get the recipes, frameworks, and lessons you need to run your own in-house experimentation program. Episodes released twice a month. Host, Lucia van den Brink, is Founder of The Initial, the agency that builds, runs & hands over experimentation capabilities for brands like Semrush, British Airways and Bolt Pharmacy. Find out more: https://the-initial.com/

Newest episodes

Stop Chasing Uplifts. Start Making Better Decisions.

Nov 10, 2026 33 min

in this episode… Lucia chats with Divya Isaiah, head of experimentation at the BBC, a 100-year-old business with a weekly audience of half a billion people. Before that, she built a global CRO function covering 50 markets at Accenture Song and ran experimentation at Channel 4 and BA. She started in plant biology and marine biology, never planned a career in experimentation, and now leads a 14-person center of excellence supporting every BBC product, from iPlayer to News, Sport, Weather and Sounds. it’s about: → how to build a center of excellence from a team of 1 to 14 inside a massive, decentralized organization → why you start with your audience (the team), not the data, the tooling or the process → speed vs. velocity: why the real shift is from chasing uplifts to making better decisions → practicing what you preach: treating “we tried and it went nowhere” as a win → what a business-wide experimentation summit with 400+ attendees taught her about engagement

The Boring Pre-Work That Makes AI Actually Work for CRO

Oct 27, 2026 29 min

in this episode…Margus Veeber is head of web at Pipedrive - the CRM used by over 100,000 businesses, and the host of the Web Unpacked Podcast. he leads global website strategy and has pushed his team from 3–5 tests a month to 10+ with the same headcount.his secret? treating AI as a teammate in every step of the process, with a human always leading.it’s about:→ how a team of 6 scaled from 3–5 tests a month to 10+ without adding people→ launching A/B tests straight from Claude Code, connected to the testing tool through MCPs→ the boring pre-work (your test repository) that decides whether AI gives you winners or slop→ why ugly websites can win, and how cool designs quietly tank conversion→ small, fast tests vs. big bets: how to keep velocity up while still swinging bigCheck out his Podcast page: ⁨ https://www.linkedin.com/company/webunpacked/home/

The Good, Better, Best Model for CRO Investment: How to Get The $$$ For Your Program

Oct 13, 2026 31 min

in this episode… Muqtadaa Miandara was the senior manager of experimentation at Upbound Group, the company behind Rent-A-Center, Acima, and Bridget. he went from not knowing what tagging was on a Friday to acing a technical interview on Monday. and he's been figuring things out at speed ever since. this year? his team was targeting 300 tests, a massive valuation goal, and a leaderboard that makes ops teams compete for experimentation glory. it's about: → how to go from 12 tests a month to 12 tests a week, without burning your team out → the good, better, best investment pitch that got his CGO to say "I want the biggest one" → why win rate is a smoke screen (and what to measure instead) → the ideation workshop format that turns any team into experiment generators → empathy, ethics, and context switching: the 3 traits every great experimenter needs this episode was recorded while Muqtadaa was at Upbound Group. the views expressed are his own and do not represent those of Upbound Group. If you enjoy learning about these topics, follow our newsletter to get all the frameworks and insights: ⁠https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/⁠

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All episodes

Stop Chasing Uplifts. Start Making Better Decisions.

Nov 10, 2026 33 min

The Boring Pre-Work That Makes AI Actually Work for CRO

Oct 27, 2026 29 min

The Good, Better, Best Model for CRO Investment: How to Get The $$$ For Your Program

Oct 13, 2026 31 min

Why Is Nobody Acting on Your A/B Test Results? Here's Why & What to Do About It

Sep 28, 2026 20 min

Get Simon's framework for scaling experimentation across product teams in this month's newsletter: ⁠https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/⁠ in this episode… Simon Born is head of analytics and experimentation at Kaufland — Europe's fastest growing marketplace. he's been there six years, executed over 1,500 experiments himself, and right now has 80 experiments running simultaneously. he didn't build this from zero — but he scaled it to something most companies can only dream of. it's about: → how to go from 2 experiments in parallel to 80 running at the same time → the C-level move that got every team to start experimenting (without forcing it) → why trustworthiness is the most underrated metric in any experimentation program → build vs. buy: the tooling decision that shapes everything

How You Can Build an Experimentation Program from Scratch (from the Senior Optimization Manager at The AA)

Aug 24, 2026 31 min

Get Stuart's framework for building an experimentation process from scratch in this month's newsletter: ⁠https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/⁠ in this episode… Stuart Clare is the senior manager of digital trading, optimization, and personalization at the AA — one of the UK's most iconic brands. he's spent four years building an experimentation program from scratch, across five different product journeys, with a team of four. calm under pressure, process-obsessed, and still checking dashboards first thing every morning, just like he did when he was A/B testing email subject lines. it's about: → how to build an experimentation program from nothing — and get leadership to fund it → the loss prevention argument that makes any business case impossible to ignore → why a 25% win rate is healthy (and why chasing a higher one is actually dangerous) → app testing: why it's a completely different beast and what nobody tells you about it → the 1 thing that has stayed consistent across every company, every product, every journey

You're Already in Love With the Solution (That's the Problem)

Aug 10, 2026 29 min

Daniël Granja Baltazar⁠ is a CRO Specialist at one of the Netherlands' biggest telecoms VodafoneZiggo, and proving that CRO goes way beyond A/B testing. If you enjoy learning about these topics, follow our newsletter to get all the frameworks and insights: ⁠https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/⁠ in this episode… → what a 300+ experiments per year experimentation program looks like → why B2B experimentation can't just copy B2C playbooks → the MVP mindset: stop falling in love with solutions, start defining the problem → how qualitative research fills the gap when traffic is too low to test → using sales knowledge to rewrite product pages (and 10x your leads) → building an AI-powered experiment library so no learning ever gets lost Find Daniël on Linkedin: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/dgbaltazar/

Stop Testing Only Your Website — There's a Whole World Out There

Jul 29, 2026 42 min

Gabriel Marçal⁠ is a growth PM at AIOS Medical, and one of the quietest, sharpest minds in experimentation. Solving bigger problems than just running A/B tests for checkouts. follow our newsletter to learn all his frameworks and insights: ⁠⁠https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/⁠⁠ in this episode… from his early days at a CRO agency in Brazil to running experiments on sales call scripts, physical medication boxes, and mobile apps, Gabriel refuses to stay in a box. it's about: → why your website isn't the only surface worth testing (and what to do when you're blocked) → how a lean 2-person team scaled to 10x growth without scaling headcount → the no-show rate problem: how experimenting with sales reminders moved the needle from 70% to 80%+ → subscriptions as a retention game-changer — and why 90%+ adoption doesn't happen by accident → Bayesian vs. frequentist? the answer that will surprise you Find Gabriel on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabmarcal/

I Do Stand-Up Comedy and A/B Testing (Turns Out They're the Same Thing)

Jun 22, 2026 42 min

Get David's prioritization framework in this month's newsletter: ⁠https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/⁠ David Swinstead spent 10 years inside the Booking.com bubble, and came out with some of the sharpest, most contrarian takes in the experimentation space. in this episode… he is now running experimentation programs at e-clerks, and doing stand-up comedy on the side, he treats both the same way: test everything, surrender to the data, and never assume you know the answer. it's about: → the "no-brainer" test on his first day at Booking.com that completely tanked → why PIE, ICE, RICE and every off-the-shelf framework is setting your team up to fail→ the 5-criteria prioritization framework he's been refining for 15+ years→ 1 pixel. 1 underline. and why everything on your site can make a difference→ CRO is easy, people are hard. how to actually build a culture that lasts Find David on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-swinstead-09267030/

Blinkist: 'Onboarding Best Practice' failed 😳

Jun 1, 2026 33 min

Proven at brands like Kia, Montblanc, Blinkist, and Blacklane, Ioana’s framework shows how to implement experimentation that actually scales. Find it in this month’s newsletter: ⁠https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/⁠ in this episode... Ioana has built experimentation programs across industries (from automotive to luxury to tech) and she’s not just running tests, she’s building systems that scale learning. currently working as a product growth consultant at Blinkist, she turns experimentation into a true growth engine. this conversation isn’t about surface-level A/B tests. it’s about: → the 5-step framework to build an experimentation program from scratch→ why “time to learn” beats perfection in high-performing teams→ how to avoid false positives that can cost companies millions→ why common “best practices” in CRO often fail in reality→ using AI to generate hypotheses and accelerate experimentation Find Ioana & her cohort for women on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ioanaiordache/

My Job Title is ‘Head of Failure’ (& we do 50 Experiments /Month)

May 18, 2026 45 min

How do you pitch 50 experiments a month? ...by making them impossible to refuse. Steal Grace Miller’s framework for "tiny loss" proposals that guarantee a "Yes" from even the most risk-averse clients, it's in this month's newsletter: https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/ in this episode… Grace Miller is building one of the most advanced experimentation cultures in media. she doesn’t just run tests; she turns entire teams into experimenters. as head of experimentation and failure at Flight Story, the company behind Diary of a CEO, she’s scaling experimentation across 15+ teams, from thumbnails to full customer journeys. it’s about: how to build a culture where everyone runs experiments (not just one team)“kill the guesswork”: using data to drive decisions across the entire businesswhy failure, rewards, and rituals (like experimenter of the week) accelerate growthhow to prioritize experiments that actually impact company KPIsscaling learnings across brands, platforms, and audiences without forcing what doesn’t fit Find Grace on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grace-miller-linked-in/

Stop Trying to Trigger Emotion: Do This Instead

May 7, 2026 37 min

If you enjoy learning about these topics, follow our newsletter to get all the frameworks and insights: https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/ in this episode… Talia Wolf has been shaping the CRO industry since its earliest days. she doesn’t just run experiments; she decodes how people make decisions. as the creator of the emotional targeting framework, she’s helped companies move beyond surface-level optimization and into truly understanding what drives conversions: human behavior. it’s about: → why conversions are decisions, and how to reverse engineer them → emotional targeting: understanding pains, desires, and real customer motivations → how to turn customer research into high-impact experiment → creating emotional resonance by meeting users where they already are → getting buy-in: treating stakeholders like customers Find Talia on Linkedin: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/taliagw

Use High Velocity as Stress Test while Scaling Experimentation

Apr 20, 2026 32 min

get Luiza's playbook in our newsletter: https://increaseconversionrate.substack.com/ apply to work with us: https://the-initial.com/ in this episode... Luiza de Lange has taken companies from zero to over 100 experiments a year. she doesn't just run tests; she builds engines. currently leading experimentation at LeoVegas, she’s an award-winning practitioner who knows exactly where the "handshakes" fail in a growing business. this conversation isn’t about just tweaking button colors. it’s about: → how to move from "gut feeling" releases to validating every piece of code → why high velocity is actually the best way to audit your technical infrastructure → the "avoided loss" metric: how to prove you saved the company millions by not shipping → why "quantity improves quality" in the early stages of a culture shift → clarifying the raci: who is actually responsible for the hypothesis sign-off? Find Luiza on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luizadelange/

how a €1M mistake at Booking.com didn’t kill his career

Apr 6, 2026 36 min

Maarten van Pijpen spent 15 years at Booking.com. a place where experimentation wasn’t a project.it was the culture. now he’s chief growth officer at Unravel.a travel app that feels like TikTok,but lets you book instantly. in his first 35 days, he:– chose an experimentation tool– lined up 10 experiments– started building a data foundation but this conversation isn’t about tooling. it’s about: → how to move from top-down founder energy to bottom-up ownership → why shipping fast without tracking is dangerous → how a €1M mistake didn’t kill his career(but actually strengthened it) → why failures were celebrated at Booking → how to scale leadership so you’re not the bottleneck we talk about culture.trust.empowerment.and what it really takes to build a data-driven company —without killing speed. if you care about experimentation, growth, or leading teams in scale-ups and how all of these dynamics work, this podcast is for you.

25,000 students, & this is what he actually teaches: don't insert CRO in teams, bring it to them.

Mar 24, 2026 31 min

the wrong Culture inside a company, kills even the best specialists. this is what Ruben de Boer, 15+ years in Experimentation, has noticed again and again: we need to create the right environment for CRO & Experimentation to flourish. not by pushing CRO but by bringing it to people and teams his course on Udemy has 25000+ students and is very much about the basics of CRO and Experimentation, but these days Ruben teaches how to make Experimentation mátter to the business, and to leadership follow him on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rgdeboer/?originalSubdomain=nl or take one of his Udemy courses: https://www.udemy.com/user/rubendeboer/

How Fyxer.ai ran 512 Experiments in a year by using AI

Mar 3, 2026 42 min

we unpack one of the fastest built experimentation engines i've seen!! In this episode, I sit down with Kameron Tanseli (Growth Engineering) and Rosie Hoggmascall (Growth & Product) from Fyxer.ai and we retrace the steps of building a 500+ /year experimentation program. We go deep into: Why their first onboarding experiments actually made things worseThe tooling shift from PostHog to GrowthBook (and why it mattered)How decentralized ownership (no PM, no heavy process) unlocked serious speedWhy every engineer acts like a founderHow Slack transparency builds experimentation cultureUsing AI agents to automate experiment reporting, analysis, and cleanupWhat “time to value” really means in an AI productThe emotional side of onboarding (“inbox shock”) and how it impacts retentionHow to prioritize when you’re scaling from 5 → 70+ peopleWe also explore: ➤ The difference between growth and product prioritization➤ How to surface insights across support, sales, and product➤ What’s still impossible to automate in experimentation➤ The tracking challenges of building inside Gmail and Outlook and of other AI tools

How I Used CRO Ethically to Sell Sex Toys and Financial Products

Feb 24, 2026 40 min

as a Behavioral Psychologist, dr. Florien Cramwinckel has helped the CRO and Experimentation world increase sales for S*x Toys, Children's playhouses ánd Fintech. Florien shares how CRO, experimentation, finance, sex, and play are related and can how to improve their business, society, and people's lives. she shares what she knows about "Pleasure Shoppers", and how they differ from Purpose Shoppers. How sextoys are connected to equality, safety, and communication. ...we talk about that borrowing money is so frictionless, ...why investing scares us, and how we should revert that effect and what to do if you've made an ethical mistake (in the case of Lucia placing fake reviews on a webshop)... 😱 follow Florien and learn from research in her newsletter: https://behavioraltimes.com/ you can find the dissertation she speaks about here: https://floriencramwinckel.nl/the-social-dynamics-of-morality/

Why experimentation adoption fails & how to fix it with Lea (Condor Airlines)

Feb 2, 2026 39 min

in this episode, Lea Mattern shares hard-won tactics for driving experimentation adoption inside organizations. Based on her experience at Condor Airlines and German brands she worked with at Konversionskraft, we break down what actually works when you work at a Center of Excellence trying to increase experimentation adoption. 4 practical guidelines we cover: do internal marketing ('yes, be annoying, lol');make experimentation low-effort (bring or lend your own developer);talk to POs about what they need and how you can help them with experimentation;Use designers as Trojan horses: they already have the ideas, you just need to teach them experimentation; -- do this with empathy, and adoption stops being a battle. 👑. Follow Lea Mattern on Linkedin. this podcast was brought to you by The Initial. we help organizations install in-house experimentation programs and teach CRO agencies how to do this successfully. For the love of experimentation.

DANGERS of scaling insignificant test with Alisa

Jan 15, 2026 35 min

In this episode, Alisa Antypova (ex-Preply & ADC Consulting) opens the door to her world of experimentation. She talks about her start in data science, building Preply’s experimentation platform from the ground up, and how decisions become sharper when you test instead of guess. We explore airlines, marketplaces, and other complex systems where a single decision can create wide ripple effects. We talk about holdouts, the quiet truth tellers, and the risk of scaling tests that don’t really matter. Alisa shares the mistakes she’s seen, the traps teams often fall into, and why understanding what doesn’t work may be one of the most underrated skills in experimentation. Follow Alisa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alisa-antypova/ Article she referenced on airlines and experimentation: https://adc-consulting.com/cases/how-latam-airlines-embraced-business-experimentation-for-revenue-management/

The faster you iterate, the bigger the chances of success with Giedrius Blazys from Vinted

Jan 12, 2026 32 min

In this conversation, Giedrius shares his journey from academia to working on experimentation at Vinted. He talks about the messiness of testing in a marketplace, where every A/B test affects both sellers and buyers. We discuss why shared metrics matter, and how difficult, yet worthwhile, it is to build a culture that truly experiments. We get into the slow, steady work of improving this craft. The friction teams face when moving toward a data-driven way of working. And the patience that process demands. Giedrius also reminds us that experimentation isn’t only for large companies. Small teams and big teams alike can learn from user behavior, if they take the time to test with intention.

Small changes, big IMPACT on conversion with Kevin Anderson

Jan 12, 2026 36 min

In this conversation, Kevin Anderson (ex-Vista, ex-ING, now a consultant) shares his journey from web analyst to product manager at VistaPrint, and how he’s experienced experimentation from every angle. We talk about what it really takes to scale experimentation across an entire organization. That includes leadership pushback, the slow work of proving value, and the mistakes that still sting. Kevin explains the difference between agency support and building experimentation in-house. He shares why ownership matters, and why experiments only last when the organization truly owns them. We also look ahead. We discuss AI, what may change, and what will likely stay the same. The need to test, learn, and stay curious. Follow Kevin on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinanderson/

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Podcast details

Created by: Lucia van den Brink
Status: Active
Latest episode: Nov 10, 2026
Episodes: 20
Release period: Every two weeks
Avg. episode length: 35 min
Explicit: No
Language: English

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