Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, Jordan Gal

The Panel

A Entrepreneurship , Business and Technology podcast

About the show

Three founders, Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal, discuss product strategy in the age of AI, wins/misses, and ultimately, how to build a better business and a better life.

Newest episodes

The Wartime CEO

Nov 13, 2026 1 hr 12 min

This week we start with Justin’s return to Twitter (November 28, so mark your calendars) and then dig into Brian Halligan coming back as HubSpot CEO to “refound” the company. Jordan walks us through why the move worries him, and we end up debating what it says about SaaS in a world where anyone can vibe-code their own CRM. Brian shares what he’s seeing from non-technical Builder Methods members building custom case management systems, and Jordan explains how we’re thinking about MCP at Rosie, including whether to build a chat box inside the app or let customers control it from Claude. Chapters: (00:18) - Welcome and Danny Postma Shoutout (02:00) - HubSpot Refounding and Wartime CEOs (05:31) - SaaS Trends and Vibe Coding (17:00) - Open Source and Custom Solutions (22:30) - MCPs and Anthropic's Trojan Horse (34:21) - AI Costs and NVIDIA Situation (37:15) - Political Backlash and Data Centers (48:20) - AMP Week and Team Culture (58:51) - Builder Methods Coaching Launch (01:06:05) - Agent Reporting and Infrastructure Links Mentioned in this episode: Ben Orenstein on X: "I'm back at @tuple as CEO! The Art of ProductLess Annoying CRM | Simple Contact Management for Small BusinessesStartup to LastGitHub - NYLLON-SOFTWARE/ember-cloudflare: Open Source Slack and Campfire inspired chat with one click deploy to CloudflareCarrd - Simple, free, fully responsive one-page sites for pretty much anythingA road trip through the data center debate — Search EngineRaising an Agent — a podcast by Quinn Slack and Thorsten Ball - AmpAgent Reports: Agents work everywhere. They report here

Amp is the New 37signals

Nov 3, 2026 1 hr 20 min

Amp Code's approach to running a company is potentially changing how software teams work, Justin and Jordan reflect on their own teams and how they compare to the bar Amp is setting for teams working with AI. Brian reveals a new project, Homegrown Systems, a productized service that installs a team of marketing agents inside your own company. Timestamps: (00:10) - Intros (03:20) - AMP as "the new 37signals" (13:20) - Why 37signals worked, and what AMP is questioning (17:36) - Is process just performance theater? (19:03) - How Jordan's and Justin's teams are adapting (24:53) - Junior developers, AI-native hires and token budgets (27:38) - Fiverr thought exercise (33:15) - Reveal: Homegrown Systems (41:29) - Where the demand comes from? (44:18) - How is this different from open-source skills? (47:38) - Who is the ideal customer? (58:21) - First steps for validating a new product (01:00:13) - Speed, decisions and the cost of hesitation (01:05:33) - Hiring versus experiments (01:18:32) - Wrap-up and community shout-outs YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Amp: Coding agent and dev environment built for the frontierRaising an Agent — a podcast by Quinn Slack and Thorsten BallShortcutFiverrHomegrown Systemscoreyhaines31/marketingskillsAgentMailJosh Pigford

I Email All My Bots

Oct 23, 2026 52 min

Jordan and Brian unpack two MicroConf talks from Rob and Einar that frame the new reality of SaaS: faster building, faster competition, and more ways for products to get displaced. They then get practical about what that means for product strategy, pricing, annual billing, and where AI can actually help a small business stay durable. Timestamps:00:00: Intro and Rob’s MicroConf talk03:30: Should founders be more paranoid?06:17: Einar’s moat talk and what makes software valuable10:13: Where services and productized services fit13:46: Josh Pigford’s AI service model17:26: Giving Grokbot recurring jobs20:21: Claude does the work, Grokbot runs the pipeline23:45: Getting bot output ready for quick approvals27:20: Keeping marketing going between launches33:10: Getting out of your head by building something36:22: Jared’s A Pointlet and Little Desk39:16: Fewer features and simpler annual pricing43:18: Quarterly payments and annual commitments46:14: Brian’s current favorite: Claude Opus 5.549:14: Elon, xAI, and the AI race52:14: Weekend plans YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: MicroConfDiscretion CapitalKnowatoaMuse: Meta's personal AI agentIntroducing dots | OpenAIInstinctGrok BotIntroducing Claude DuetAppointletLittle DeskLiveKitopus 5.5Claude FableElon Musk: Full Walter Isaacson Interview on AI, DOGE, the Debt & X | The BuildersBillionaires Palmer Luckey And Ben Lamm Spin Up Startup To Genetically Engineer Military Dogs

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All episodes

The Wartime CEO

Nov 13, 2026 1 hr 12 min

Amp is the New 37signals

Nov 3, 2026 1 hr 20 min

I Email All My Bots

Oct 23, 2026 52 min

The Harder It Is, The Better

Oct 10, 2026 1 hr 25 min

Corey shares how he moved from marketing into coding, why he still keeps technical co-founders on some products, and how he thinks about balancing services, software, and content. The group also digs into AEO, paid ads, churn in productized services, and why manual customer research still matters. Timestamps:00:00 - Intro02:20 - Corey Haines and Conversion Factory04:33 - Does everyone still need a technical co-founder?06:21 - How Corey went from marketing to coding10:08 - TrueList, Magister, and Corey’s other products13:01 - Running several products instead of betting on one15:26 - Building a business around a personal brand17:33 - How AI changes testing ideas and building products20:58 - Automated testing across 30 repos24:50 - Spreading the risk across multiple products27:24 - Josh Pigford and the debate over focus31:31 - Why some products grow and then fade34:33 - What to do when growth stalls36:48 - SendFox, focus, and what counts as winning38:52 - Churn and sales challenges in productized services41:40 - Selling AI implementation and SEO services46:14 - The value of talking to people48:29 - What parts of marketing can you productize?50:26 - SaaS marketing has changed—and Google feels it52:52 - Which marketing channels should you try first?56:24 - Finding the first customers for a niche product59:14 - Learning how customers talk and buy01:03:04 - AEO results: more visibility, traffic, and booked calls01:05:24 - AEO beyond your own website01:08:04 - The work AI still can’t skip01:11:50 - Brian’s mix of ads, cold email, and experiments01:16:03 - Growth curves and finding the next marketing channel01:20:32 - Faster MVPs and choosing what to build01:22:28 - Products Brian actually wants to work on01:24:54 - Finding customers and problems worth solving YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Ruben’s com...

It's the End of the World of Coding, And I Feel Fine

Oct 3, 2026 1 hr 36 min

Is DHH right in his prediction that handcrafted coding is done, is trying to "be the best" the best strategy, and can you skip the hard work and just do the easy parts of product launching and still find success? Chapters: (00:11) - Welcome to the Panel Podcast (03:04) - DHH's Flamethrower Keynote (09:07) - The End of Handcrafting Code (12:35) - Who Wants It the Most (16:08) - Marketing with AI and Manual Grind (24:56) - Being the Best in Your Category (35:49) - Product Decision Making in 2026 (47:46) - Sam Altman's Advice on Focus (54:01) - Risk and Opportunity in AI (01:00:33) - Building vs Acquiring Businesses (01:19:30) - The Independent Sponsor Model (01:33:16) - Staying in Motion and Shipping Links: DHH keynote at Rails WorldDerrick Reimer on finding business ideasRuben Gamez tweetOlly tweetMicroConf EuropeAngelListTinySeedAmpGrokMuseInstinctGrok BotElevenLabsReception.aiDocuSignFlywriteMimeoMiroEvernoteBending Spoons

Eat Your Customer's Pain

Sep 19, 2026 1 hr 28 min

We’re joined by Aaron Francis who shares his experience after joining Laravel, Laravel's evolution, marketing strategies, and the future of cloud computing. How is Jev changing the cost and way we use LLMs. And what is the future of education and training on the web? Timestamps:00:00 - Intro03:03 - Aaron's Laracon reveal and why he took the job09:03 - Open source roots, cloud money, and VC-scale growth14:58 - Who Laravel Cloud is actually built for19:07 - Taylor's "best in category" tweet, unpacked22:52 - Ambition and care beat chasing every feature27:02 - Founders need a point of view, not just a new tool31:46 - PHP's culture keep Laravel grounded35:25 - Justin's Vegas Retreat45:10 - Introducing Jev, and how it's different from an LLM58:23 - Rosie, ChatGPT Live, and whether full-stack agents are any good62:16 - "Eat the pain" for your customers as a strategy77:41 - Aaron's Astra 3D office walkthrough demo81:11 - Are courses dead? Where dev education goes next YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Jev announcement postSyntax: WTF is Jev?Aaron's product - SoloAaron's 3D modeling with Astra90s PC game: Incredible MachineNew Builder Methods pageAaron FrancisIntroducing GPT-Live | OpenAITypeSafe AIFree AI Voice Generator & Voice Agents Platform | ElevenLabsCompare AI Models: Pricing, Context & Benchmarks | OpenRouter

Finding Carol

Sep 5, 2026 1 hr 45 min

Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, and Jordan Gal to dissect Jason Cohen's latest skills, particularly the 'Find Your Carol' AI exercise that reveals how customers truly perceive a business. The trio debates aggressive growth experiments versus refining existing funnels, analyzing why street interviews might outperform traditional UGC ads for prospecting. They also tackle the strategic decision of whether to keep product features bundled or spin them off into separate brands, while reflecting on the changing landscape of SaaS valuations and the challenges of maintaining energy as a solo founder. Chapters: (00:10) - Welcome and Introduction (00:30) - Jason Cohen's Hidden Multipliers (06:46) - Growth Experiment Mode (11:06) - New Ad Formats and Street Interviews (20:05) - Unconventional Marketing Strategies (38:23) - Low Energy and Company of One (45:45) - Building Systems with AI Agents (59:45) - Twitter Story and Workshop Updates (01:10:13) - Spots.fm Marketplace Strategy (01:22:09) - Buying vs Selling a Business (01:31:33) - Separate Brands for Different Markets (01:38:01) - Diversification and Exit Multiples (01:41:11) - ARR vs EBITDA Valuation (01:44:30) - Closing and Feedback Mentioned in this episode: Hidden Multipliers: Jumpstart Growth With Your Existing Budget and Team by Jason CohenFind Your Carol | Skills from A Smart BearCome to Charleston AI for all of your AI needs (r/TrueAnon)OrbanAI — AI agents that run inside your systemsTim Aton (@Tim_Aton) on XCompany Of One: Why Staying Small Is the Next Big Thing for Business by Paul JarvisAndrew Warner (@AndrewWarner) on XWhat Are Orbs? - AmpSpots.fm — Sponsor independent creatorsKit: The Platform for Creators

Patience & Urgency

Aug 29, 2026 1 hr 35 min

Jordan says you need to have patience and urgency. Justin says, "focus on the little red box that creates results." Brian is thinking strategically about courses vs. downloadable products. Chapters: (00:10) - Welcome to The Panel (01:18) - Summer Ending and Fall Rush (04:28) - Motivation and Dissatisfaction (09:40) - Revenue Goal of One Million (12:54) - Patient Urgency Concept (21:11) - Focus on What Actually Matters (28:45) - Growing a Company of One (35:33) - Hiring for Customer Success (39:11) - Courses Versus Software Products (46:28) - Doing the Hardest Thing (57:57) - Personal Connections in Marketing (01:14:16) - Competitor Collapse and Lessons (01:19:32) - Brian's Product Strategy Mentioned in this episode: "I want $100 million""You can make it complicated, or you can hit the golf ball."Justin's episode: "Don't over-engineer it"Justin's drawing: "Focus on what matters (the little red box)"Ryan Carson: "How I manage 15 AI agents 24/7 as a solo founder"Brian's Mimeo product"When you bundle too much in your product, your positioning becomes vague"Freshbooks CEO started a secret company to compete with his existing product

More ambitious? Building things we wouldn't have before

Aug 21, 2026 1 hr 26 min

What "new" value can we create with AI? Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about how we can be more creative and ambitious and build things we wouldn't have built before. We also chatted about Grok Bot and xAI's land grab (Cursor acquisition and the SuperGrok Heavy plan). Also... Brian broke up with Claude?! Timestamps:00:00 - Intro 03:34 - The sudden rise and appeal of Grokbot 11:49 - Claude fatigue and the shift toward chief-of-staff AI agents 14:55 - How product experience is replacing model quality in the AI race 18:09 - Cursor's speed advantage, pricing pain, and team switching costs 26:08 - Enterprise loyalty and why model quality will commoditize 43:44 - AI for autonomous entities, trust, and community integration 49:11 - Building AI-native vs. consumer vs. professional use cases 57:10 - Trust as the bottleneck in sensitive fields like personal finance 60:22 - Transistor's video launch, pricing model, and MCP integration 66:14 - Jordan's new capital deal and leveraging extra runway 72:12 - Customer success hiring and Builder Methods' non-developer expansion 90:15 - Wrap up YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Jesse Hanley – Marketer, developer, and creator.Introducing Grok Bot – SpaceXAI's latest release.Shaan Puri on AI Loyalty – A candid take on switching tools.Cursor – The top AI coding agent.Caleb Porzio's Work Notes – Why Cursor outpaces Codex.Amazon’s Anthropic Stake – IPO valuation insights.Polsia – AI that manages operations autonomously.Mostly Technical #145 – Exploring marketing as engineering.

Acquired By Bending Spoons

Aug 7, 2026 1 hr 16 min

Is there a potential SaaS pocalypse? How can we adapt to changes and leverage new models for growth? Jordan, Justin, and Brian explore the current state of the software market, private equity dynamics, and the impact of AI on valuations. Timestamps:00:00 Introduction02:01 Finding distribution is difficult on FB Marketplace and online12:05 The future of building software with AI and agent-first design16:07 Market entry strategies for new products19:57 Unbundling SaaS and the new software delivery models23:46 The role of internal tools and side projects28:03 The SaaS pocalypse32:00 SaaS valuations and market dynamics36:01 Designing simple interfaces with powerful backend features39:59 The evolving landscape of SaaS and market opportunities51:25 Opportunities in the current market1:03:00 Life updates YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Mimeo: Own your email marketing stackFlywrite | The writing app with a terminal built inLiveKit PlatformResendButtondown tiiny.host Make IPOs Great AgainTiny Anne Frank The Exhibition Visit the Chicago Museum of Ice CreamMxPxGoldfinger

Fiddling With Your Funnel

Jul 31, 2026 1 hr 32 min

How's your funnel doing? Jordan and Brian are joined by Henry Poydar to chat about integrating human and autonomous agents, building and testing product prototypes in days, not years, the importance of flexible, adaptive funnels, and debate the future of SaaS, unbundling, and the agent-first software paradigm. Timestamps:YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: SteadyHeyRosyBuilder MethodsOpenRoutines.devClaudeFlywriteVantaDripBentoHelp Scout

DRUNK ON FABLE

Jul 11, 2026 1 hr 40 min

What happens to the value of software when everyone can make software? Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to The Panel00:31 Brian’s Brighton Ruby trip03:12 Building FlyWrite in the car05:01 Why existing coding tools don’t work for writing07:20 What FlyWrite actually does11:37 Building version one with Fable16:04 Jordan’s weekend build and first AI-native workflow28:38 Claude Design and interactive prototyping36:41 AI, software supply, and productivity39:09 The Jeremy Giffin podcast episode48:55 What AI means for Transistor and hosting58:19 Google, Microsoft, Apple, and the AI distribution war63:28 Figma, design careers, and the white-flag mindset74:08 What happens to agencies and web designers81:05 Transition pain vs. long-term upside90:13 Becoming AI-native and where do displaced workers go? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Superconductorfaster.devConductorAICursorFlywriteRailwayBase44LovableWildbit Blog (Natalie Nagele)Harvey ROI CalculatorSpots.fmSpots (2018 archive)Product People shoutout (2013 archive)Claude DesignInvest Like the Best — Jeremy GiffonGal Shir on XChef hierarchy pyramidThe widening productivity-pay gap

I Want it That Way

Jun 26, 2026 1 hr 7 min

Justin and Jordan talk about how Jordan made a change to their funnel and increased sign ups dramatically, improving team communication, conducting better employee reviews, and developing better workflows for project handoffs between employees when AI is being used. Timestamps:00:00 Intro02:45 Taking control of your funnel05:24 Why trust matters in e-commerce08:18 Optimizing the customer experience19:10 Doubling sign-ups23:08 Customer demand wins25:34 Putting the credit card upfront29:26 Customer demand and the funnel31:56 Question your assumptions35:00 Reviews, pay, and philosophy44:14 Surviving survival mode46:40 How we think about pay49:00 Motivation and career growth54:05 AI and developer ownership01:00:54 Keeping the quality bar high01:03:51 Building a culture of accountability YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Transistor.fmHeyRosyClaude AIVictor's Post on Market PullRyan CohenTony FadellCardhookThe Walt Disney Company | Acquired

Price Fixing FTW!

Jun 12, 2026 1 hr 7 min

If you're trying to fix your funnel, where do you start? And how much of an impact do we think Fable is going to have on AI pricing? Timestamps:00:00 Intro03:27 Impact of AI and Market Dynamics06:24 Taking Control of Your Funnel17:12 The impact of Fable on AI Costs26:04 SpaceX IPO and Betting on Space42:56 Opportunities for SaaS Businesses in 2026 with Domain Expertise01:07:36 Allowances for kids works best in with communism YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Data SchoolKickbacks.ai - Get paid for waitingSpaceX IPO ProspectusFable AIAI sandwichAfter AutomationOpenAI Considers Drastic Price Cuts (WSJ)SpaceX stock jumps after record IPO, making Musk the first trillionaireSpaceX is asking for $1.75. That's ridiculous (but I'm giving them money anyway)Andrew McCalip

BIG CITY ENERGY

Jun 5, 2026 1 hr 23 min

Justin's got a major life question for the podcast, Jordan's trying to not be angry, and Brian thinks he's cracked the video editing code. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction01:06 Justin's Big Question10:04 Personal Reflections on City Life13:05 Family Dynamics and Future Living Plans24:37 The Energy of New Beginnings30:22 The Wisdom of Solitude vs. Ambition38:58 Accelerating Growth and Optimization50:41 Navigating Advertising Challenges53:17 The Impact of Confidence on Communication01:01:58 Innovating Video Editing with AI01:08:00 Balancing Quality and Quantity in Content Creation01:14:44 The Human Cost of Rapid AI AdoptionYOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Do the Hard Thingvideo-useHyperFramesMediocre ideasBuilding Software is LearningTransistor Video Podcast Hosting

I spend money. People see the product. They buy. We grow.

May 29, 2026 1 hr 10 min

After figuring out how to stay in shape with exercise, Jordan and Brian wrestle with what each other's north star should be in their day to day work. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 01:19 Peptides and Supplements08:06 Gym vs Home Workouts14:02 Daily Walking17:01 Brian's Calorie Tracking21:40 The Importance of Optimization24:27 Jordan's Ad Spend Thoughts29:08 SEO and Email Marketing Automation33:58 Brian's trying to leverage AI to limit bottlenecks53:23 Balancing Urgency and Ambition55:52 Connecting Daily Tasks to Long-Term Goals01:03:29 Navigating Multiple North Stars YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Lose It! - Weight Loss That FitsHeyRosy.comBuilder MethodsClaude AIHermes Agent Platform

Vibe coding is not a real business model

May 22, 2026 1 hr 9 min

How is multiplayer being addressed in AI, should we scale humans or agents, and is every small business going to vibe code their own apps? With special guest Henry Poydar. Timestamps:00:00 Welcome to The Panel03:06 Business Updates05:53 Coordination Challenges in Teams with AI11:48 Trust and Accountability in Team Dynamics17:45 The Future of Team Structures20:30 Scaling with Agents vs. Traditional Teams25:48 The Future of Company Organization27:58 The Intersection of AI and Creativity36:02 Challenges in the Music Industry with AI40:32 Navigating the VC Landscape45:45 The Indie Entrepreneur Path48:20 Vertical Saas and tool building01:01:17 Weeknd plans and talking politics YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: SteadyHenry PoydarTinaFey on what it's really like to have a teenage daughterCharlie AIDevinHow I build agents that work the night shiftGranolaVibe-Coded AI 'Slop' Is Flooding the World With Potentially Dangerous Code—'Eventually It Will Catch Up to Us'

Burning Out Doing Lines of Code

May 15, 2026 1 hr 24 min

Are you feeling a mixture of excitement and burnout at the pace AI coding seems to be pushing you? Is it sustainable in the long run or do you worry about what you'll be like in 6 months time? Timestamps:00:00 Introduction03:22 Advertising Strategies and Funnels08:12 Jordan experiments with Partnership Ads and Organic Content Ads12:03 Transistor's Video Podcasting Platform Launch21:32 Brian's YouTube Channel Growth30:27 Understanding Customer Engagement and Sales Dynamics35:56 Navigating Pricing Changes in AI Tools01:02:36 The Impact of AI on Work Intensity and Burnout01:06:19 The Evolution of Product Development and Market Dynamics01:13:48 The New Normal: Speed, Pressure, and Success in Business YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Claude changes its pricingWrappers vs steamrollers (and who owns the customer)Hire creators to do your adsPost to all social platformsAI brain exhaustion + burnoutMatt Wensing: "Burnout happens when the reward no longer justifies the effort / perceived risk."Brian's new course: "Become the builder"The meme that took over Twitter this week

A series of miracles (with Jason Cohen)

May 8, 2026 1 hr 19 min

Jason Cohen (founder of WP Engine) joined as a surprise guest. We got into his writing process, why "distribution is the new moat" is either not new or not true, what actually counts as a moat (Basecamp, Linear, Lemon Squeezy), and his framework for funnels: the quality of who enters the top matters more than every other step combined. Jason's new book Hidden Multipliers is available for preorder. Timestamps:00:00 Introduction01:28 Jason Cohen's Journey and Insights04:18 Writing Process and Content Creation10:24 Distribution as a Business Strategy13:15 Debate on Distribution as a Moat25:20 The Concept of Moats in Business26:31 Social Media vs. AdWords: The Distribution Debate32:09 Basecamp's Unique Positioning and Brand Identity38:32 The Role of Brand in Modern Business48:46 Understanding Customer Behavior Through Data51:08 The Importance of Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)57:35 The Challenge of End-to-End Funnel Visibility01:07:00 Metrics and Their Role in Business Strategy YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Jason's new book: Hidden MultipliersJason's blog"Elephant in the room: the myth of exponential hypergrowth"Lenny's tweet: "Distribution is the new moat"JR Farr's tweet: practical distribution frameworkJason's post: "Things mostly “fail” even at the best companies. It's weird, if you think about it." "Selecting the right product KPIS"

Marinating in the sauce

May 2, 2026 1 hr 21 min

SaaS life! How do you deal with the daily sales anxiety? Brian recounts a major March spike from viral YouTube, a full site redesign and repositioning, and the fear of launches falling flat, while Justin describes simplifying Transistor’s funnel and tracking daily signups. We debate when to “double down on what’s working” versus making scary directional changes, emphasizing founder gut, credibility with teams, and remote-team alignment. On distribution, they argue product and marketing are linked, and “hand-to-hand combat” on channels like Reddit, discuss ads and YouTube as ongoing systems, and highlight social proof via reviews (including Jordan’s use of Senja). Jordan shares using Claude to investigate the Allbirds deal and leverage personal networks to reach key deal participants, reinforcing founder curiosity and agency. Timestamps:00:00 Welcome00:48 April Revenue Whiplash02:11 Builder Methods Relaunch Fears04:48 Daily Sales Mood Swings05:59 Simplifying the Funnel12:43 Trusting Founder Gut27:21 Distribution in the AI Era35:10 Practical GEO and Reddit Tactics40:55 Customer Culture and Reviews43:47 Engineering Social Proof51:38 AI Investigates Allbirds Deal01:10:49 Churn Through Weird Lens01:15:59 Weekend Wrap And Skate Talk YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message 📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com 📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Senja

You Down With ICP?

Apr 24, 2026 1 hr 53 min

Justin, Jordan, and Brian discuss the importance of understanding your ideal customer profile, the role of ambition in customer segmentation, and effective strategies for content marketing and product positioning in the tech and SaaS industries. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction03:22 Authenticity in Content Creation06:25 Updates on Business and Personal Life09:21 Partnerships: Successes and Challenges12:26 Navigating Sponsorships and Brand Deals15:31 Exploring Video Podcasting and Market Demand26:16 Navigating Pricing Models and Customer Expectations for Video Podcasting31:27 Integrating AI into Marketing Strategies45:20 Understanding Ideal Customer Profiles (ICP)01:00:34 Understanding Customer Segmentation01:04:23 Navigating Customer Needs and Expectations01:13:36 Pricing Power and Value Proposition01:27:17 Shifts in YouTube Content Dynamics01:33:12 Leveraging Content Clips for Growth01:38:02 The Importance of Regular Content01:42:20 Tim Cook's Leadership and Future Innovations at Apple YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Content RewardsPostBridgeMarc Andreessen on Product and MarketingJobs to Be Done Framework

The power of attention

Apr 18, 2026 1 hr 27 min

In this episode we discuss how small teams can leverage AI as teammates, the impact on business outcomes, and the cultural shifts driven by AI advancements. How would Steve Jobs handle marketing and selling AI at Apple? How do the kids today think about AI? And Jordan explains the Allbirds nonsense. Chapters:00:00 Introduction01:38 The Evolution of Teamwork and Tools07:41 Balancing Accountability and Autonomy10:40 The Role of Agents in Team Dynamics13:42 Challenges of Implementing AI in Business16:36 The Future of Marketing and AI22:39 Imagining Steve Jobs in the Age of AI30:42 The Value of Struggle and Learning in a Tech-Driven World39:58 Navigating Career Paths in an Evolving Job Market45:50 Navigating Job Market Changes50:16 Jordan explains The Allbirds Controversy57:04 The Power of Attention in Business01:02:29 Storytelling in Marketing01:10:51 Building Relationships for Effective Distribution01:15:11 Pricing Transistor's Video Strategy01:23:42 Innovative Marketing Strategies and Anticipation Phases YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Henry's product - https://runsteady.com/Linear blog post (brave) - https://linear.app/nextAllbirds turns into an AI company - https://creators.yahoo.com/lifestyle/story/the-unhinged-genius-of-allbirds-39m-exit-sell-the-brand-spike-demand-become-ai-164312969.htmlThe company that acquired the old Allbirds brand - https://www.axnygroup.com/our-brandsCNBC: “Struggling shoe retailer Allbirds makes bizarre pivot to AI, adds $127 million in value”

Is "vision" overrated?

Apr 10, 2026 1 hr 33 min

Does vision matter? And how far into the future should your vision be these days? And how do we deal with copycats in the age of AI? And who is our money pin in the Anthropic vs OpenAI vs Google horse race, especially with mythos in the news. Timestamps:YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️ 🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Quick Sight – AWS https://aws.amazon.com/quick/quicksight/Stripe Sigma https://stripe.com/en-mx/sigma Paddle https://www.paddle.com/profitwell-metricsClaude Mythos https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/ Owner.com https://www.owner.com/ Base44 https://base44.com/

Respite from the Dopamine Machine

Apr 3, 2026 1 hr 29 min

Why doesn't AI prompt us more often if it's so smart? Ryan Hefner joins us to chat about our daily drivers for shoes, IDE, AI provider, getting the news, and planning a vacation. Timestamps: (00:07) - Introducing Ryan Hefner (03:53) - Today's topic: how we choose our daily drivers (04:54) - Updates with Justin (08:54) - Update from Brian (14:16) - Ryan's Launch week concept (23:04) - The concept of daily drivers in life (25:35) - Daily driver shoes (29:58) - Daily driver IDE (33:31) - Remote controlling Claude (44:44) - Daily driver for AI (50:09) - We often stick with a product even when a new one would be more efficient or helpful (53:37) - Daily driver for getting the news (01:04:32) - Daily drivers for vacations (01:15:11) - AI needs to be prompting us more (01:22:01) - Daily driver for voice transcription YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Transistor helps publish TBPN video podcast on Apple PodcastsBrian's job postingRyan's new app: Launch WeeksFreek's new appOpenAI buys TBPN for hundreds of millionsT3 Code editorOpenAI CodexSuperset.shConductorSoloCMUXCodex plugin for Claude CodeSurf.socialTangle newsGround News

Can AI be your CRM?

Mar 27, 2026 57 min

Justin's hosting this one and he brought along Ben Curtis from Honeybadger to talk about how AI can be a CRM and also your designer. Timestamps: (00:15) - Introducing Ben Curtis (02:57) - How is Honeybadger using AI? (06:35) - How do you determine which model to use for different problems? (09:33) - How are we using AI in marketing and sales? (24:09) - How Steve Schoger used AI to design (33:32) - How much longer will websites matter? (38:47) - How intelligent are LLMs at product market fit? (44:40) - Transistor Update: Video podcast hosting + Ghost integration (47:18) - What Honeybadger is working on (50:26) - Updates from Brian's work YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Ghost CMSClaude AICodex by OpenAIHatchbox for DeploymentFigmaGoogle StitchTailwind CSSClaude MCP for Figma@SteveSchoger designs with Claude

Scam or no scam? (with Jordan)

Mar 21, 2026 1 hr 32 min

It's Jordan's turn to host and he's got some AI companies he's not sure about... Timestamps: (00:06) - Jordan's episode to host! (01:19) - Business update from Brian (05:45) - Justin's business update (14:09) - How Jordan advertises to his existing customers (21:50) - Jordan's business update (28:48) - Is Polsia fake or real? (40:47) - Adam Wathan announces ui.sh (58:12) - Is Delve AI compliance a scam? (01:14:45) - Where is OpenClaw today and what's the point? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: GStack — Turn Claude Code into a Virtual Software Development TeamPolsia — AI That Runs Your Company While You SleepThis AI generates $689K - Business Podcast for Startupsui.sh — Turn your terminal into a design engineerStitch - Design with AIBasecamp — Basecamp CLI and Agent Skill: Agent first, agent nativeDelve | SOC 2 Compliance, HIPAA | Automated Compliance for AI, Startups | Get GDPR, ISO 27001, Cybersecurity Compliant & More | Delve Automated ComplianceDelve - Fake Compliance as a Service - Part IGusto | Online HR Services: Payroll, Benefits and everything elseOpenClaw AI - Open Source AI Assistant | Formerly Clawdbot & MoltbotClaude

The money tunnel

Mar 14, 2026 55 min

Brian, Justin, and Jordan talk about the opportunity costs in business decision-making, the impact of AI on marketing channels and strategies, and building custom internal tools with AI versus SaaS solutions. Timestamps: (00:44) - Brian takes the lead (02:17) - Opportunity costs (17:29) - What is Brian's opportunity on Twitter? (21:41) - Figuring out what Builder Methods is and who it's for (24:53) - Should Brian hire someone to help achieve his goal? (28:47) - How is AI killing Saas (39:54) - People will want their own agent to use the softare, not a company's AI (51:07) - Jordan's CRM experiment YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links: Builder Methods ProBrian's YouTube

A rainbow of internet fantasies

Mar 6, 2026 1 hr 26 min

What happened to you in Mexico? Justin is back from his co-founder retreat with Jon on Holbox Island. He gets vulnerable about the drift that naturally happens in a remote co-founder relationship, the big conversations they'd been avoiding, and the realization that alignment isn't a one-time thing (it requires constant investment!). Jordan and Brian weigh in on co-founder dynamics, decision-making in a 50/50 partnership, and why strategy has to belong to a key decision maker. The conversation then spills into the "Mexican standoff" happening on teams as AI reshapes who does what and whether that's something to fear (or lean into). Timestamps: (00:06) - Introduction (01:47) - Justin and Jon's founder retreat (06:44) - Using video as an example of how to communicate with cofounders (09:45) - It's not a marriage, it's a dictatorship (12:12) - What do goals look like for a company? (20:48) - Video is hard and heavy... should we do it? (24:22) - What Jordan's done to help alignment on his team (29:46) - What about Jon's side of the conversation? (39:46) - Navigating new work dynamics with the speed of AI (46:56) - There are smart developers resisting AI - why? (54:24) - A Mexican standoff on teams (01:06:47) - Company design and system design YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Holbox IslandPhotos from co-founder retreatArticle: The five stages of losing our craftArticle: Will Claude Code ruin our team?Jack Dorsey lays off 931 workersPolsia - this weird AI driven SaaS making $2m! (You give it an idea, provide a budget/credit card, and it autonomously launches the business) More on Ben Cera, founder of PolsiaThe Amazing Money Machine book cover

Embracing our AI business owning bots

Feb 27, 2026 56 min

Brian and Jordan talk about the need for developers to adapt to survive, Brian debates how much of a content creator he is vs product seller, Jordan relates his experience talking with investors, and the rise of zero human companies ZHC. Timestamps: (00:18) - Welcoming Justin er Jordan back to the show (02:48) - Companies that we're surprised aren't adopting AI tools (11:49) - Roles are blending together (20:18) - Is Brian a product person or creator? (33:36) - Or should he be doing consulting? (37:27) - Debating taking funding for Saas (48:10) - Zero Human Companies YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Matt Pocock on X: "Something that I think goes under-emphasized is how much AI coding demands a 'lead dev' mentality. If you spent your pre-AI career trying to level up your teammates (through API design, feedback loops, architecture) Then working with AI will feel natural. If you only focused"Extend Claude with skills - Claude Code DocsAbout - Gauntlet AIAusten Allred on X: "Kelly (my AI bot) used 5 subagents to one-shot this app end to end. Zero human involvement. Insane. She’s building App Store worthy apps entirely by herself on the daily now."Tom Osman 🐦‍⬛ on X: "I work on the assumption that the most powerful AI models are far more intelligent than me. My job is just to assist when needed. This morning I gave @JunoAgent a Deep Research model to explore different token design routes based on what we're working on. This came out 👇🏻"

A surprise announcement

Feb 20, 2026 53 min

We make 2 big announcements about changes to The Panel. Then we debate whether there's a founder branding advantage and how AI will affect small software teams in 2026. Timestamps: (00:46) - Our first announcement (02:20) - Why are we bringing Jordan on as a co-host? (06:51) - Why did Jordan want to join The Panel? (14:48) - What's the new format for The Panel? (18:29) - Is there a founder branding advantage? (37:03) - How is AI going to affect Saas in 2026 and beyond? (43:32) - How small teams can adapt easier than larger teams to AI YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Bootstrapped WebMarketing for DevelopersA Mexican standoff Happening in AIThe five stages of losing our craftJustin is the co-founder of Transistor.fmBrian is the founder of Builder MethodsJordan is the co-founder of Rosie

Changes coming to The Panel podcast

Feb 19, 2026 1 min

Important: we're no longer livestreaming on Justin's personal YouTube channel. Make sure you're subscribed to The Panel's channel to get notified when we go live: Subscribe to The Panel YouTube here --> Join us FRIDAY (tomorrow, Feb 20) at 11 AM Pacific (2 pm EST) for a surprise announcement:https://www.youtube.com/live/sxASjnzAYkw We'll be announcing:- A new ███████ ██████ ████- And a brand new ████ ███████- New livestream/recording time: Friday, 11 am Pacific- Livestreams will now be streamed from The Panel YT channel, not Justin's personal channel

Get to the sauna!

Feb 13, 2026 1 hr 24 min

Brian and Justin jump off Matt Shumer's "Something Big is Happening" article to ask questions like is something big happening in AI that even regular folks need to be preparing for? Is this the most important year of your work as a software developer? Should you be getting your financial house in order to prepare for what's about to hit us all? Timestamps: (00:12) - Sick snow (02:46) - Something big is happening here (AI edition) (21:02) - Not having to be held down by legacy code speeds you up (28:36) - Warnings to the non-technical world about AI (45:35) - Humans have a hard time assessing their field of view in the future (48:55) - This might be the most important year of your work (51:12) - AI in education with kids (56:05) - Seeing the world the way it is vs the way it was (58:23) - Getting your financial house in order (01:04:14) - The job market and the economy (01:13:00) - Sometimes you have to play the game not on the field YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Justin's snowboard adventure in Revelstoke"Something Big is Happening" – The viral Matt Shumer article (76M views)Matt Shumer's blogMatt Shumer's company (HyperWrite)"Tool Shaped Objects" – The response to Shumer's postJustin's new RSS feedBuilder Methods video library (Claude Code course)Moneyball: "Adapt or die" clipJustin's post on XSLT going away

OpenClaw and Building Fake Apps

Feb 6, 2026 1 hr 54 min

Come meet the crew of AI agents Brian has working for him, Justin's building fake apps to experiment and find out what he wants for real apps, and why don't we feel like we can relax now that we're doing ok? Timestamps: (00:45) - What we're talking about this episode (03:14) - Brian's OpenClaw setup (11:57) - The cost of token usage with OpenClaw (17:32) - What makes the memory better in OpenClaw? (22:38) - What about Cowork? (25:21) - Working with multiple agents in OpenClaw (27:07) - The problem of Siri (29:25) - The challenges of working is the same across AI or hiring (31:28) - The importance of thinking of AI as an employee (35:03) - What you'll miss by using AI instead of hiring a human (44:14) - Why Justin thinks it's important to build fake products (49:57) - Justin's app to publish a video as a podcast (53:41) - Building a company to compete with yourself like Freshbooks (55:39) - How might Transistor change bringing in new features? (01:04:07) - Design OS updates (01:09:01) - Why is Brian working all the time and feeling urgency? (01:16:26) - Marketing for developers in 2026 (01:30:37) - Founder led marketing is key (01:36:27) - Where are the real products being built with AI? Is AI actually speeding me up? (01:46:31) - Do I need to make as much money as possible now? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: OpenClaw (Clawdbot)Brian’s crew of AI agents that live on his Mac MiniOpenClaw popularity on GitHub over timeDemo of Justin’s video hosting appThe story of how Freshbooks created a fake company to launch a new version of their productCaleb Porzio - Everything I feel about AI right nowJeffrey Way - I'm doneAdam Wathan - ui.sh

"What happens when engineering outpaces marketing?" – Jordan Gal

Jan 16, 2026 1 hr 45 min

Jordan Gal joins The Panel to get some thoughts out about how software development feels like it's shifted since the holiday break, the lowering cost of making a mistake, how his team has to get ready for the new AI first workflow, marketing in the age of AI, and what happens to funding startups when anyone can build the app? Timestamps: (00:06) - Welcome (00:20) - Introducing Jordan (01:34) - The world changed over the holiday break (12:17) - The cost of making a making a mistake used to be higher (25:38) - Get ready. This is not optional. (28:34) - Senior engineers have to adapt (42:18) - How do organizations and teams adapt? (47:59) - What needs to change so rapidly about Rosie? (55:08) - How AI has averaged marketing (01:22:23) - What happens to funding for startups in 2026? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: ✨ Rose AI👤 Jordan Gal🛠️ Langdock AI🐦 Adam Wathan & Tailwind Sponsors💡 DHH on AI Agents🔨 Builder Methods (Build with AI)🎙️ Transistor.fm (podcast hosting)

2026: We Choose Hope

Jan 9, 2026 1 hr 43 min

Now that the holiday break is over, how are we feeling about 2026? We're talking about the new ideas we have to build or work on, as well as predictions for 2026 in AI, building, normal tech usage, and social media. Timestamps: (00:07) - New year, new excitement (01:40) - What has changed since the holiday break? (06:18) - Is Justin going to republish Marketing for Developers? (11:30) - Building a membership site in Ghost (18:37) - How Justin might release the updated content and podcast (24:42) - Focus on original instead of the average (37:25) - How Brian used Claude to generate visuals for a course on Claude Code (46:43) - If everyone is jumping on AI coding in 2026, how is Brian set up to meet the demand? (01:00:56) - Prediction for 2026: Standing out from the crowd is going to be key (01:05:31) - What's stressing Brian about social media in 2026 (01:09:36) - Partnerships are going to be very important in 2026 (01:11:01) - The new media will just become the media (01:15:14) - OpenAI will fade from the lead position (01:20:36) - AI adoption by normal people needs a better paradigm (01:27:13) - AI in music and tv wont' be significant (01:29:44) - The problem or the blessing of building even faster with AI in a year (01:38:29) - Bootstrapping will become the norm again in 2026 (01:42:12) - Meta is going to have a big year in 2026 YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Marketing for DevelopersGhost CMSTechnical knowledge to build an appAcquired 10th anniversaryAcquired sponsorship ratesAdam's morning walk episodeAdam's tweetBrian's Claude Code courseClaude Skills / Design World

2026: Panic or Hope?

Dec 19, 2025 1 hr 41 min

We're looking back at what our thoughts were about 2025, and scheming ideas and plans for 2026. How do you hand over decision making in your business in an AI world? How does remote work first affect junior developers? And do you panic when sales slow down? Adjust? Rethink everything? Timestamps: (00:06) - Does Transistor get quiet around the Xmas holidays? (02:08) - Dealing with insecurity in business (05:34) - The Panel in 2026 (07:09) - Looking back on 2025 (12:54) - What kind of person is going to do well in 2026? (20:51) - Figuring out how to hand over decision making to junior developers (28:10) - Remote work vs local work (32:35) - Every business is a people business, every problem is a people problem, every solution is a people solution (41:03) - We can make requests and we can have boundaries (45:08) - What do I want? (48:29) - Should Brian diversify his marketing funnel away from YouTube? (01:05:06) - Building a cloud service for my products (01:24:04) - Building Inbox Summaries (01:28:27) - Rewriting for Marketing for Developers for AI YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode: Bootstrapped Web | 2025 recap & 2026 outlookDesign OSAdam WathanChris Enns / 🍋TupleTaylor OtwellObsidian EveryONCE Lars LofgrenMarketing for Developers

Do you worry about getting crushed by the competition?

Dec 5, 2025 1 hr 40 min

Justin shares his thoughts on competition crushing his business, Brian contemplates open sourcing an idea for front end AI tooling, and when should you run with a new idea vs knowing when to drop it. Timestamps: (00:00) - Get into it! (00:47) - A founder has to worry about threats and opportunities (17:55) - What got us here won't get us there (28:42) - Why are trials increasing in 2025? (34:20) - An update on Builder Methods (40:11) - Deciding when to drop or maintain a project (51:07) - People want AI on rails (01:12:28) - 37Signals new product Fizzy (01:15:52) - What's the benefit to open sourcing a project? (01:32:59) - Leaving some value on the table YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Adam’s morning walk podcastBrian’s personal siteBrian’s DesignOS announcement37signals FizzyNathan Barry “Leave some value on the table”Tailwind CSS InsidersRework podcast “picking a price”

Filtering out bad ideas

Nov 26, 2025 1 hr 22 min

Brian and Justin discuss the recent launch of Filterhawk, which Brian built to replace Gmail's built-in filters. They also talk about SaaS marketing strategies (which channels still work?). Justin shares some initial numbers from the Black Friday sale. Timestamps: (00:06) - Follow up on last week's Justin mystery (02:51) - Brian launching Filterhawk (13:29) - How did Brian build Filterhawk in a week? (26:32) - The refinement phase (34:59) - Transistor's Black Friday sales (44:34) - BuilderMethodsPro Black Friday deal (49:34) - Brian's entering phase 2 of Builder Methods (01:06:28) - Thinking about where we have gaps in knowledge of our customers (01:09:45) - Thinking about marketing to teams and larger companies YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode FilterHawk – Take Control of Your Gmail InboxInertia.jsshadcn/uiClaudeCursorGoogle GeminisuperwhisperWispr FlowImproving frontend design through Skills | ClaudeHatchbox.ioForgeRewardfulStripe SigmaPanic – NovaGoogle AntigravityFrom AI skeptic to UNFAIR advantage – YouTubeHow remote work changed my lifePodscan.fm

Mystery caller

Nov 14, 2025 1 hr 28 min

Brian and Justin are joined by a surprise guest: Nadav Keyson, founder of Riverside. We had an impromptu conversation about how Riverside launched (and found traction), the impact of funding (vs bootstrapping), how Navad thinks about competition, and whether he thinks having investors leads to more stress. Timestamps: (00:10) - Agenda for the episode (02:19) - The future of The Panel (16:18) - WE'LL DO IT LIVE! (17:22) - Nadav Keyson from Riverside joins (22:27) - How much should we think about our competition? (26:15) - When did Riverside raise money and invest in content / SEO? (28:42) - What were the keys to building a stable product in a competitive space? (31:41) - What are the challenges ahead for Riverside? (35:00) - How much is AI involved in writing Riverside's code? (39:55) - Has Nadav's stress lessened as Riverside has grown? (50:47) - Why should someone use your app? Why you? (01:06:51) - Forming an opinion about the world vs finding demand for a solution (01:14:23) - Brian's building Filterhawk (01:26:41) - What happened to Justin? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Riverside's original Product Hunt launchRob Snyder blog post: The Physics of StartupsBrian's new app: FilterHawkBrian's tweet

Maybe, do the opposite

Oct 31, 2025 1 hr 25 min

AI dev is changing rapidly, and... AI dev is rapidly changing how we build websites and apps. Brian and Justin wrestle with this new reality and discuss the different phases of a startup, how indies can cultivate brand loyalty, and when you should maybe do the opposite of what everyone else is doing. Timestamps: (00:00) - What does Justin do all day? (00:14) - Welcome to The Panel (04:05) - The phases of startups (20:04) - AI coding might be moving away from spec driven development (27:52) - The future of products is shifting regularly (31:46) - Building a website dynamically with AI (46:41) - How much brand loyalty do we have in the age of AI? (01:13:45) - Singing the counter melody YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Panel Animated introHillchartsCheeky Pint interview with Anthropic founderDerek Sivers articleHumanoid robotOpenAI acquires app that watches youDuer JeansPlain English podcast

Going Back to Grade 12

Oct 24, 2025 1 hr 20 min

Justin spoke to a grade 12 class about entrepreneurship, and was surprised by what he learned about teenagers. Brian has thoughts on the impact of Agent OS v2.1 and struggles with the support burden of open-source software. They talk about “Wealth is the freedom from having to monetize every idea." Also: Johnny Ive and Rivian founder RJ Scaringe's product design processes. Timestamps: (00:00) - Now It's Time for The Panel (01:30) - AI music creation (05:45) - Segments update (06:39) - Casel or Castle or ? (07:55) - Justin's visit to a grade 12 entrepreneur class (18:14) - What kinds of questions did the kids ask? (23:31) - Projects that generate unwanted jobs (40:25) - The relief of wealth DHH tweet (56:19) - Jonny Ive and caring about design (01:05:14) - Cheeky Pint podcast interview with Rivian founder YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode SunoSuno intro song for The PanelJustin’s high school talkAgent OSBuilder Methods Pro DiscordTweet: “Wealth is the freedom from having to monetize every idea”Survey: How does Basecamp get new customers?Cheeky Pint podcast interview with Rivian founder

Double duty with Aaron Francis

Oct 18, 2025 1 hr 40 min

Aaron Francis joins The Panel this week to talk about entrepreneurship, programming, and parenting. We chatted about how personal experiences shape our business journeys, the evolution of programming tools, and the importance of identifying market signals for success. Timestamps: (00:16) - Aaron Francis joins The Panel (02:06) - How we're teaching our kids about programming? (09:36) - The gap between AI code and design (16:04) - How much AI are we using to write newsletters? (20:22) - The web feels like it's back (21:26) - Signals your business is working (43:47) - Navigating when to pivot (52:56) - What would you say to grade 12 class? (01:12:26) - How to decide what product to work on next (01:22:12) - Recording live streams of working sessions (01:35:35) - Worrying about ideal customers vs just trying stuff YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Mostly TechnicalAaron FrancisIan LandsmanDancing Without A Partner – Signal v. NoisePaper – design, share, shipNewsletter - Aaron FrancisPhil Vischer - WikipediaThePrimeagen - YouTube

Surviving on the internet

Oct 10, 2025 1 hr 35 min

Justin is impressed with V0's ability to build working prototypes quickly. We've also got Sora 2 thoughts. And... what should we teach our kids when AI makes everything easy? Brian launches Agent OS v2. Could either of us survive without the internet for more than a day? Timestamps: (00:00) - This can be the show (00:20) - Prototyping Transistor's episode creation UI in v0 (05:39) - Who would be working on this kind of project at Transistor? (12:55) - Our thoughts on Sora 2 (21:00) - How will we be able to tell what's human creations vs AI? (31:40) - Are kids growing up being too dependant on AI? (49:30) - What motivates us is different for each person (56:42) - Is building in AI the key to revenue? (01:02:10) - How has the launch of AgentOS v2 going? (01:06:47) - Customers pulling vs pushing to customers (01:09:55) - Brian's thinknig around content for pro members (01:16:15) - Could we survive in a cabin in the woods without internet? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Sora by ChatGPT0xFramer on XCheeky Pint: Des Traynor on Intercom (transcript at 35m15s)Mind the Game PodcastTony Dinh: Oct 2025 Updates - Code, Money, and TravelTypingMind - LLM Frontend Chat UIAgent OS - AI Coding Agents SystemSpec-Driven Development WorkshopMostly Technical: Vision QuestJustin Jackson: 2017 Year in ReviewAlex Duggleby on AI and Junior Developers

Will vibe coding and AI give product people an advantage?

Oct 6, 2025 1 hr 48 min

Justin Jackson and Brian Casel discuss the evolving landscape of entrepreneurship, particularly in the context of AI's impact on product development, creativity, and the job market. They explore the importance of having a clear vision when using AI tools, the challenges faced by junior developers, and the enduring need for human connection in art and media. The discussion also touches on the future of work, the role of AI in enhancing productivity, and the implications for artists and creators in a rapidly changing environment. Timestamps: (01:48) - Vibe coding a marketing tool for Transistor (11:23) - Coding with AI vs designing with AI (18:35) - Is vibe coding a playground or for serious development work? (24:57) - Negativity around AI and building (46:24) - Artists and AI (01:00:36) - Will we ever go back to the social days of Twitter (01:08:34) - What are your Q4 goals? Do you think about end of the year business planning? (01:31:27) - The importance of telling people what you're doing (01:42:53) - The benefits of a long career YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode v0 by VercelDribbble BalsamiqBig Tech Told Kids to Code. The Jobs Didn’t Follow. - The New York TimesAaron Francis on XThe Last Days Of Social MediaStratechery by Ben ThompsonDitheringAgent OS

Business vibes

Sep 26, 2025 1 hr 39 min

Justin vibe-coded an app 5 minutes before recording this episode. Justin and the Transistor team just got back from Banff for their annual company retreat. How do these retreats actually work? What are they good for? Brian has some pretty good signups for Builder Methods Pro memberships! (How can he keep that momentum going?) He's also juggling Agent OS customer support. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:21) - Justin's been vibe coding again (02:11) - Transistor's company retreat (14:48) - The benefits of hiring a photographer for team retreats (21:56) - Laying out the vision for Transistor (25:23) - An easy way to tell how often you're shipping new features (34:45) - Builder Methods workshop update (41:31) - Selling annual subscriptions (46:40) - The mixture of feelings around launching (48:52) - The struggle of dealing with inbound messages (54:47) - Figuring out how to help teams as well as individuals (57:54) - What do Justin and Jon want next? (01:16:08) - Should we think about our competitors? (01:31:44) - Vibe coding vs AI assistant in the code YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Justin's vibe-code app: Segments – Podcast recording timerJustin's app demo videoTown of CanmoreChris Enns: podcast editorBuild Your SaaS | An update from Justin and JonWhat's Next? with Brian CaselClaude Code | ClaudeFast and reliable end-to-end testing for modern web apps | Playwright

Business Dad, digital fatigue, Outro.fm, Builder Methods

Sep 12, 2025 1 hr 57 min

We're joined by Ian Landsman, from the Mostly Technical podcast, joins us to chat about Outro.fm and Helpspot. We talk digital fatigue, the challenges of maintaining an online presence, the importance of building a community around shared interests, finding the right audience, and balancing personal goals with business objectives. As Brian⁩ prepares to launch Builder Methods Pro, we debate the value of community feedback and the potential for unforeseen opportunities in creating content online. Ian talks with us about the development of Outro.fm as an all-in-one solution for podcasters, the importance of building a membership community, the production side of podcasting tools, and the challenges faced in the podcasting market. Also: the difference between one-time sale products (courses) and SaaS. Timestamps: (00:06) - The pre-show is the show (00:23) - Quitting Twitter (06:19) - Redesigning his website with AI (07:53) - Deciding on what a channel is for (13:59) - Chasing views and likes (20:58) - What are we up to this week (29:36) - Why subscription and community vs team training and consulting (50:32) - What should the premium content be for day one? (57:08) - What is Outro.fm? (01:15:04) - Who are Outro.fm's competition? (01:21:47) - Selling sponsorships for podcasts as a product (01:25:43) - The bet on how much revenue you'll get from your work (01:43:59) - Step 1: Become famous YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Ian LandsmanA Smart BearBuilder Methods | Training for AI-first software developersOutro.fmMostly Technical Member Site | OutroThe Podcast Website Builder | PodpageLuma · Delightful Events Start HereThe Changelog podcastSyntax - Web Development PodcastHelp desk software for effortless email support

Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results?

Sep 5, 2025 1 hr 42 min

Brian is wondering: how do you manage a popular open source project? Justin went to Toronto and introduced his son to Adam Wathan, Wes Bos, Steve Schoger, and Caleb Porzio. Why does the same amount of effort produce wildly different results? And... is everyone getting tired of all this copycat content that's optimized for algorithms? Timestamps: (00:20) - Preview of what we're going to talk about (02:11) - Builder Methods Pro and AgentOS (03:58) - The importance of human content in an age of algorithmic feeds (25:55) - Connecting with people in real life (33:52) - Zeroing in on Builder Methods revenue (48:25) - Managing an open source project in public (59:22) - The importance of enthusiasm in projects (01:12:21) - Effort and outcome YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Sam Sulek YouTube ChannelBuilder Methods WorkshopJustin’s Toronto HangoutMarketing is a Transfer of EnthusiasmAgent OS GitHub ProjectOpen Source Contribution Guidelines (Litestream)37signals Book Royalties RevenueEffort vs Outcome Blog Post1,000 True FansOmarchy 2.0Wes BosDownie - YouTube Video Downloader for macOS

A framework for getting what you want

Aug 16, 2025 1 hr 58 min

Justin's been using Stripe Sigma to learn a lot more about the history of revenue at Transistor. He had a phone call with Jason Cohen about how to get what you want out of your business. And Brian talks through the same frameworks to figure out what might work best for Builder Methods including exploration of courses, cohorts, community, and more. Timestamps: (00:06) - We're back! (00:59) - Brian's healthcare journey (09:36) - Deep dive into Stripe Sigma and Transistor's history (37:38) - Asking yourself the hard questions about your business (42:12) - The value of taking a win now (57:29) - What does Brian want with BuilderMethods (01:14:35) - Rob Snyder's Pull framework (01:30:48) - Can you do community well without the time commitment? (01:35:17) - Cohort vs courses (01:57:23) - How long is a long podcast episode? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Jason Cohen: About the authorMostly TechnicalChartMogul | CRM & Subscription Analytics built for B2B SaaS growthMessage from PaddleKit: Email-First Operating System for Creators (formerly ConvertKit)Build Your SaaS | The “charge more” debateAverage Podcast Downloads: Podcast Measurement and GrowthFinding FulfillmentAgent OS | A free open-source system to train smart AI coding agentsThe PULL framework - by Rob SnyderJay Clouse - Creator ScienceLearn Laravel | LaracastsWes BosLearn Ruby on Rails | GoRails

Should we be outsourcing customer support to AI chatbots?

Jul 18, 2025 1 hr 14 min

Justin is wondering whether AI customer support is worth it. Brian is navigating the emotional rollercoaster of YouTube. He's wondering whether he should pursue sponsorships as a revenue stream. Brian introduces Agent OS, a new development tool designed to streamline coding processes when working with AI tooling (which got a big reaction during the live stream). Timestamps: (00:33) - Justin's experiment with AI support chat bots (15:20) - Do you want AI writing your responses? (19:06) - Trying to figure out why Brian's latest video didn't work as well (26:35) - How important is it to keep publishing every week? (30:56) - Thinking sponsorship vs products (45:36) - The value of community (56:23) - What is Agent OS? (01:05:00) - Should Agent OS be free? YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode BentoTransistor’s new customer service pageAgent OSAgent OS on GitHubBrian’s YouTubeColin and Samir interview by Jay ClouseColin and SamirJay Clouse’s revenue breakdownWes BosSyntax.fm

I don't love SaaS anymore

Jul 11, 2025 1 hr 26 min

AI and programming is a hot topic, and it feels like Brian⁩ has found that "founder/audience" fit where his interests align with a wave of audience interest. He and Justin discuss their process for making YouTube videos. Justin also asks: "how do we ensure that our worst tendencies don’t bloom" when we're making products? (Founder retreats and masterminds come up). The big topic: Brian's not loving SaaS (anymore). Timestamps: (00:06) - Brian's YouTube journey (04:29) - What Brian's hoping BuilderMethods could be (08:26) - What does Brian's YouTube video script look like? (10:59) - Why is AI so bad for YouTube editors? (16:57) - One thing Descript really nails (19:44) - How Steve Jobs ruined his early companies (24:25) - Learning about your blindspots (28:40) - Seeking connection in mastermind groups or conferences (38:00) - How can we make sure we don't follow our worst impulses? (42:23) - Zooming in on our battery: what gives us energy? (53:00) - Getting alignment between what you love and what makes you money (01:00:10) - What might not work for one person, can be a smash hit for another (01:03:20) - What is the paid value of content lead companies? (01:21:07) - There are business models that are difficult YOU ARE THE PANEL – send us your thoughts 🗣️🎤 Send us an audio or video message📧 Email us: panelpodcastshow@gmail.com📺 Leave a comment on YouTube 🦋 Reply on Bluesky Links mentioned in this episode Clarity Flow - Brian's SaaS productTransistor.fm - Justin's companyBuilder MethodsThe Panel Podcast (@panelpodcast.com) | TikTokDescript: Edit Videos & Podcasts Like a Doc | AI Video EditorDaVinci Resolve | Blackmagic DesignDitheringDaring FireballShawn Blanc: Focus Like a Bosscalf + clover creameryDaniel PinkTallyProfit First - Mike MichalowiczMike Michalowicz – How the author of Profit First stays lean by licensing his ideasApple in ChinaJustin’s BlueSky post on Steve JobsThe Pull FrameworkBowling drawingMarketing help for programmers, software companies, and Saa...

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Podcast details

Created by: Justin Jackson, Brian Casel, Jordan Gal
Status: Active
Latest episode: Nov 13, 2026
Episodes: 65
Release period: Every two weeks
Avg. episode length: 1 hr 21 min
Explicit: No
Language: English

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